NEW LGV Test Rules - Again

[dieseldave]

gpc273:

Mothertrucker:

HPT - another stupid and ridiculous invention

I have heard that to pass the HPT the best thing to do is to click the mouse every 7 seconds. Apparantly this is fail safe
Does anybody have any ideas on this. (Will somebody please try it out and let me know?!)

That method would be detected as “method clicking” and give a zero score for each clip it was attempted on.

I’m not commenting on the merits of the HPT.
I will say that, since it became a requirement, it’s been a nice little earner for me.
gpc273 is spot-on about the “method clicking” and its outcome.
I’ve told students to do that during lessons, for that very reason.
Then they see for themselves.

[rog]

gpc273 - Do you believe that the HPT teaches experienced drivers anything new about hazardsthat they did not know already
I do not believe that anyone who has taken the test on this site has benefited and it seems to be the same view everywhere.

[mothertrucker]

I think we can all agree that we want to see a good driving standard out there and to know that all those in charge of big vehicles have the know how on handling them and also a good working knowledge of road safety.
I will uphold and applaud any change that is an improvement to driving standards but I have serious doubts as to whether doing away with the gear change will make any difference.
Also as all trucks used for training have to have ABS then there is little point in the controlled stop nowadays.
When the rule comes in to use a loaded truck then the controlled stop could be downright dangerous.
Digressing slightly - the sad thing is, whatever standards are put into place and however stringent the test is made it will never account for human nature.
I meet many drivers who are considerate and safe. I also meet others with a completely couldn’t care less attitude about other road users.
One actually said to me that he did not care if he was in an crash as he would probably be safe as he was in the bigger vehicle and if someone got in his way then that was down to them if they got killed.
All we can hope for is that the DSA keeps track of what causes the most accidents and analyses the root cause and incorporates this into the tests.

[dieseldave]

Mothertrucker:
All we can hope for is that the DSA keeps track of what causes the most accidents and analyses the root cause and incorporates this into the tests.

That’s the best idea I’ve seen in ages, but will it ever happen?

[rog]

Daft idea - give each trainee a map of the route and tell them to follow it - not really practical but real life

[kiowan]

ROG:
Daft idea - give each trainee a map of the route and tell them to follow it - not really practical but real life

You could even stop at some shops and do some deliveries on the way, may aswell get paid while you’re at it

[gpc273]

ROG:
gpc273 - Do you believe that the HPT teaches experienced drivers anything new about hazardsthat they did not know already
I do not believe that anyone who has taken the test on this site has benefited and it seems to be the same view everywhere.

In a nutshell, NO, but I don’t make policy at the DSA, thats left to people who don’t make a living out on the road.
I have taken it several times as part of my refresher training, do I learn anything, of course I bloody don’t, but it shuts the ADI associations up
As dieseldave says it can be an earner, I would go so far as to say that at least they got that part right in making all ADI’s take the test (was it the same for LGV instructors?), you can’t understand and teach something you can’t/won’t do yourself.

[rog]

gpc273:
you can’t understand and teach something you can’t/won’t do yourself.

In most cases I would agree with you but the HPT does not teach anything to the drivers that are going to take the LGV test, so why does an instructor have to know how to take or pass the HPT
If I was instructing trainees to pass the HPT computer game then that would be different.
The theory is a different kettle of fish as I often have to refer to it during training.
If the DSA REALLY want to test drivers of any sort for hazard awareness then the only sure fire practical way of doing it is ON THE ROAD. This could easily be done if the examiner took the wheel for 10 mins whilst the trainee commentates on the hazards or do it the advanced way, where the driver commentates whilst driving - although I doubt this way could safely be done by many on a test.

[mothertrucker]

This could easily be done if the examiner took the wheel for 10 mins whilst the trainee commentates on the hazards or do it the advanced way,

I believe that is it difffernt now - but back when I started instructing in the 80’s the examiners did not have to hold anHGV licence at all.
It was all theory and in house training so they could examine something they could not do themselves.
Like being a really picky armchair judge at Strictly Come Dancing - and having two left feet yourself

[macplaxton]

I didn’t try the 7 second approach, so I can’t say if it works or not

I was a little concerned about this side of the test because I read about some people who got full marks in the multi-choice part and went on to fail the HPT.

I didn’t buy the HP DVD. I did read a bit about the HPT before hand. I watched the DVD that came with my confirmation letter explaining how the test works with the sample clip. I made sure I understood how the test works and what it wanted me to do. I got 66/75 first go (never sat a theory test before).

Regardless of the worthiness of the the HPT (or any other exam), if a candidate prepares properly, it should be easy to pass.

[rog]

macplaxton:
I didn’t try the 7 second approach, so I can’t say if it works or not

I was a little concerned about this side of the test because I read about some people who got full marks in the multi-choice part and went on to fail the HPT.

I didn’t buy the HP DVD. I did read a bit about the HPT before hand. I watched the DVD that came with my confirmation letter explaining how the test works with the sample clip. I made sure I understood how the test works and what it wanted me to do. I got 66/75 first go (never sat a theory test before).

Regardless of the worthiness of the the HPT (or any other exam), if a candidate prepares properly, it should be easy to pass.

Curious - what new insights do you now have regarding hazards that you did not have before passing the HPT

[dieseldave]

macplaxton:
I didn’t try the 7 second approach, so I can’t say if it works or not

It doesn’t.
As gpc273 said “gives a zero score.”

macplaxton:
I was a little concerned about this side of the test because I read about some people who got full marks in the multi-choice part and went on to fail the HPT.

I didn’t buy the HP DVD. I did read a bit about the HPT before hand. I watched the DVD that came with my confirmation letter explaining how the test works with the sample clip. I made sure I understood how the test works and what it wanted me to do. I got 66/75 first go (never sat a theory test before).

You did very well then. The pace of learning varies from person to person as does the ability to retain knowledge.
Some people benefit from guidance, whilst others are able to self-teach.
One of the larger training providers asked to write a short course to deliver in a classroom setting.
I found (generally) that theory test candidates weren’t always fully aware of what counts as a hazard, so here’s my PowerPoint slide for that topic:

When used in a classroom, each line of writing comes up one at a time, so I have the opportunity to turn it into a discussion.
At the end of that slide there’s no end of suggestions, so I usually know when the point is made.

macplaxton:
Regardless of the worthiness of the the HPT (or any other exam), if a candidate prepares properly, it should be easy to pass.

I couldn’t have put it better mate. Nice one. BTW, congratulations on the pass.

[fuse]

what did you miss, emergancy veh blue lights flashing , low flying militery aijrcraft no kidding,bee or wasp entering cab a blow out

[dieseldave]

fuse:
what did you miss, emergancy veh blue lights flashing , low flying militery aijrcraft no kidding,bee or wasp entering cab a blow out

Exactly fuse, and there’s plenty more as well !! but don’t forget that my little course is for people who probably haven’t driven a truck, because now they have to start with Cat “C” after having had a car licence for a few years. You should see their faces when they understand what constitutes a hazard

[macplaxton]

The only thing I learnt about the HPT is that is should really be called DHPT, as you can only scored on developing hazards.

I think I got lazy with the clicking on the PCV because I scored one mark less. It was the same 14 clips in a different order

1. Mad woman with pram coming out of a drive on a country lane
2. Sheep in the road twice
3. Cyclist flying out of a left side road
4. Person joining dual carriageway from lay-by extremely late
5. Lorry flying round corner and parked vehicle on industrial estate
6. Park on left of the road with boy running out after ball in road
7. Town centre car cutting up from right after traffic lights
   Car emerging from right late at mini roundabout
8. Learner car flying out from left side road then stopping
9. Horse rider up ahead coming towards you with unsettled horse

Can’t remember any more than that at the moment. Some clips I clicked a few as 4 times others happily clicked 10-12 times.

[rog]

macplaxton:
The only thing I learnt about the HPT is that is should really be called DHPT, as you can only scored on developing hazards.

I think I got lazy with the clicking on the PCV because I scored one mark less. It was the same 14 clips in a different order

1. Mad woman with pram coming out of a drive on a country lane
2. Sheep in the road twice
3. Cyclist flying out of a left side road
4. Person joining dual carriageway from lay-by extremely late
5. Lorry flying round corner and parked vehicle on industrial estate
6. Park on left of the road with boy running out after ball in road
7. Town centre car cutting up from right after traffic lights
   Car emerging from right late at mini roundabout
8. Learner car flying out from left side road then stopping
9. Horse rider up ahead coming towards you with unsettled horse

Can’t remember any more than that at the moment. Some clips I clicked a few as 4 times others happily clicked 10-12 times.

How many times in REAL DRIVING do you get exactly the same senario over and over again - NONE - just goes to prove how useless the HPT is IMO.

[mothertrucker]

1. Mad woman with pram coming out of a drive on a country lane
2. Sheep in the road twice
3. Cyclist flying out of a left side road
4. Person joining dual carriageway from lay-by extremely late
5. Lorry flying round corner and parked vehicle on industrial estate
6. Park on left of the road with boy running out after ball in road
7. Town centre car cutting up from right after traffic lights
   Car emerging from right late at mini roundabout
8. Learner car flying out from left side road then stopping
9. Horse rider up ahead coming towards you with unsettled horse

This list reminded me of one of the more amusing situations I found myself in while instructing.
We were coming along a country lane and arriving at the small town High St which was heaving with market stalls, shopers, kids pouring out of the local school for lunchtime break, cyclists tearing our of side turnings, dogs, cats kids, roller bladers - you name it.
I asked my trainee what he saw ahead.
His answer was the green Mondeo in front!
Ah well - there is always one

[krankee]

I’ve only just caught up with this thread therefore, can I first say how pleasant it is to have a DSA Examiner on board as a member (or should that be a 2nd DSA Examiner?)

We have already had reiterated from one of the HATO’s how their terms of employment stipulate that they join ‘Public Forums’ “at peril of dismissal”, but, nevertheless, have a number that are active, and provide constructive input, even to the point of Neil accompanying a crew and writing about his experiences.

I’m sure that the ‘Powers That Be’ at the DSA have a similar policy, and a far stricter emphasis on enforcing same.

That said. What has always irked me, and many drivers on these forums, is the DSA’s attitude to ‘entering roundabouts’. It has already been mentioned by one contributor in relation to the ‘real world’. I am talking about the situation where an opposing vehicle has not given any signal. The Candidate commences to enter the roundabout, only to then discover that the car driver intends to circumnavigate the roundabout beyond the vehicle entering. This is invariably marked as a ‘Serious’ and therefore a fail.

But what has the candidate done wrong? They have seen the vehicle. They have observed the lack of any signal deemed appropriate in accordance with the relevant paragraph of the Highway Code. They have been appraised of the principle of ‘the hands follow the eyes’, but then comes along the numpty in the BMW with darkened windows.

Alright, he is forced to stop. But is that the fault of the candidate, or a ‘self imposed’ penalty for the idiot involved for not signalling correctly?

The second point that I would make is about ‘walk backs’.

Not involving LGV’s, but I have heard of a car test being cancelled because the Examiner was on a ‘walk back’ from a previous test, and would therefore not have enough time to complete a Test prior to the next subsequent Test.

WTF? Whatever happened to customer service? Does not each DSA location have an account with a local taxi company to get the Examiners back to their working location? Does someone in the Office not have a Car Allowance to go out and collect them? Admittedly, not always practical. Does not the DSA have a cooperative working relationship with ADI’s whereby they can say to someone arriving early, “Can you just…?”

We are hearing about Tests becoming longer in time and, therefore, longer in distance. Are we then now to expect to hear of ‘walk backs’ from something like ten miles, or will Examiners, conveniently , allow the candidate to return to the Centre before failing them.