nick2008:
We were talking about this in work the other day and one of the TM’s said they were getting worried about what’s gonna happen come the Sept deadline …
Typical TM, flap their wings & stress out for zb’all. Treat drivers like zb then worry about them when you think you need them-there is no shortage & never will be one:!::!:
mike68:
The DCPC is only part of the picture, the underlying problem is the lack of new drivers entering the industry.Why would a youngster spend around £3,000 to get a C+E and earn £7 an hour or have to spend years at the beck and call of a thieving agency because big employers won’t recruit, agencies in my opinion are the root cause of the problem.
You hear a lot from drivers on this forum about the DCPC and agencies, how the former is a load of crap and the latter being scumbags.
The very same drivers who work for agencies then post how they claim to earn more than employed drivers whilst taking January and February off without pay, the driver is his own worst enemy always has been always will.
Agencies are scumbags and I’ve 15 years experience of dealing with them. But… once you know how to play the game it’s fairly easy to get exactly what you want in terms of both income and the type of work. The problem is that as per usual the majority of drivers are thick ■■■■■ and they let the agency have their pants down, which they will do at every opportunity you give them.
Silver_Surfer:
Well, they’ve taken the ■■■■ out of you for the last 5 years, shoe’s on the other foot now, make em pay ladies.
+1
These are defiantly changing times in my view.
My last company who I left last year always had a pile of application forms of drivers wanting jobs,well last week they were advertising on direct.gov…
Makes me quite happy because any driver who moaned at the TM he just pointed to this big pile of application forms and said “look if you don’t like it there’s many that will”
Left hand down!:
Agencies are scumbags and I’ve 15 years experience of dealing with them. But… once you know how to play the game it’s fairly easy to get exactly what you want in terms of both income and the type of work. The problem is that as per usual the majority of drivers are thick [zb] and they let the agency have their pants down, which they will do at every opportunity you give them.
+1
itll take that long for drivers to figure it out :unamused: Like you, Im a career agency driver, and see far too many drivers have the ■■■■ taken out off them by agencies
I found out this snippet of info yesterday
It might be an insignificant amount, but as a result of the DCPC, milestone (agy) have increased the pay rates (paid to agency drivers supplied by them) across the board at 16 DHL sites by a meagre £0.70 - £1.70 per/hr, starting from TODAY (the last day of their payroll week Sun-Sat).
+£0.70 p/hr Mon- Fri
+£1.70 p/hr Sat
ie: PAYE was £9.30 days £10.30 p/hr nights (M_F) for C+E & is now rounded to £10 & £11* (*with the paltry £1+ extra included for S/E).
With increase pro rata on other rates, except (bizarrely) no increase on the Sunday rate.
Whether they eventually tell those drivers they should be getting & actually paying the pay rise is another story. 
I was aware they where negotiating the above since the beginning of July
Any driver shortage is purely down to how attractive the industry looks to late teen to late twenty somethings. I had a bricky in doing some work around my house a few weeks back. 8am to 5 pm, £140. Why would anyone want to do 5am to 7pm for less than a hundred notes and still not get home at the end of it??
This, I put down to these big industry bullies. Home grown companies that undercut and buy out others, as well as big yellow German companies and big red French companies to name but a few. Constantly driving the price of haulage down and down, buy making themselves bigger to spread their costs. It’s economic sense for them, I know that. It happens from agriculture, to coffee shops. The trouble is, all these small family run companies cannot offer the wage, the pension, the conditions or the hours that these huge conglomerates can. Then you’ve got supermarkets running their own fleets at next to nothing because their business is selling products to a foolish public, making billions and thus, subsidising their own haulage.
If a young lad or lass sees a tarted up truck on the road, it attracts him or her to the industry, it’s bound too. But it should be the pay and conditions that attracts them, all else after that is a bonus… It’s the other way around at the moment. One of the only ways a small firm can get drivers is to offer a nice motor, a decent wage is a bonus!
Everyone harks on about the competition threat posed by flip flops, foe want of a better expression but the playing field is far from level between our own haulage companies. Because of that, the pay and conditions are the first to be affected and the last to be improved. Not very attractive a career choice now, is it? Could cause a driver shortage…
2 things have happened this week for me,on wednesday one of my former employers who I left on terrible terms with,rang me direct and virtually begged me to go back,regardless of what had happened.He told me they simply cannot find experienced drivers(tankers).Yesterday I called into my recent employer to download my card for the last time,again I was asked to reconsider my position as they too cannot find good men(4 more had jacked since I went 2 weeks ago).This shortage is real,and happening right now. There has never been a better time for us as HGV drivers to take back some of the higher ground that employers have taken from us over recent times.
It’s in our hands lads. It really is.
Left hand down!:
mike68:
The DCPC is only part of the picture, the underlying problem is the lack of new drivers entering the industry.Why would a youngster spend around £3,000 to get a C+E and earn £7 an hour or have to spend years at the beck and call of a thieving agency because big employers won’t recruit, agencies in my opinion are the root cause of the problem.
You hear a lot from drivers on this forum about the DCPC and agencies, how the former is a load of crap and the latter being scumbags.
The very same drivers who work for agencies then post how they claim to earn more than employed drivers whilst taking January and February off without pay, the driver is his own worst enemy always has been always will.
Agencies are scumbags and I’ve 15 years experience of dealing with them. But… once you know how to play the game it’s fairly easy to get exactly what you want in terms of both income and the type of work. The problem is that as per usual the majority of drivers are thick [zb] and they let the agency have their pants down, which they will do at every opportunity you give them.
Couldn’t have worded it better myself, you only have to read these boards to see how many drivers let agencies take the p*%s with regards to pay and conditions and then come on here to ask advice or moan about what they’ve agreed to or about something they don’t understand such as being forced into self employment or umbrella schemes without knowing what they are getting into.
As you say you have to know how to “play the game” to get what you want. I certainly learned it very quickly and I’ve only been on agency the last 2 years and I don’t profess to being brains of Britain so if I can work it out then surely others can too. I tell them what my minimum hourly rate is, what start windows I’m prepared to work in and what days I want to work on. I don’t sign to any terms or conditions I don’t understand or agree with. I do all this in a polite and friendly manner and it’s always worked for me without them taking the Michael!
I’m currently thinking of returning to agency work after 12 years working full time jobs. I’d appreciate any tips on how to “play the game” with agencies. I’m considering going self employed, but the rates I’m seeing are mostly around the £10 p/hr mark in the Warrington area. What is a reasonable rate as a minimum that I could ask?
Doc Hollyday:
I’m currently thinking of returning to agency work after 12 years working full time jobs. I’d appreciate any tips on how to “play the game” with agencies. I’m considering going self employed, but the rates I’m seeing are mostly around the £10 p/hr mark in the Warrington area. What is a reasonable rate as a minimum that I could ask?
If your going the SE route go Ltd company …
Doc Hollyday:
I’m currently thinking of returning to agency work after 12 years working full time jobs. I’d appreciate any tips on how to “play the game” with agencies. I’m considering going self employed, but the rates I’m seeing are mostly around the £10 p/hr mark in the Warrington area. What is a reasonable rate as a minimum that I could ask?
When they ring you up, desperate, with an urgent job, and they offer you a very tempting hourly rate, tell them you want the assurance of that rate in an email BEFORE the shift starts. It may do you well to submit a copy of the email with your time sheet too. No email… then don’t accept the job. They’ll likely see to your demand if it’s the difference between finding a driver or not.
When signing up, make it very very clear which start times you want, how many days per week you want, and also what your minimum rate is. Stick rigidly to this regardless of how they try to manipulate your guilt or sense of allegiance or loyalty (there is no allegiance or loyalty, it’s quick and dirty business). For example “C’mon mate, you owe me a favour”, or “I was good to you by getting you into insert blue chip company so rub my back and I’ll rub yours”. No! If you don’t want to accept a shift, don’t, ever. They won’t drop you, because they need you too much. They’ll just learn you cannot be manipulated and give you what you want.
Doc Hollyday:
I’d appreciate any tips on how to “play the game” with agencies.
There isnt really any tips, just cold hard experience. Everyones learning curve is different, which can be so steep that it goes into loop-the-loop. Decide what you want to do, when you want to do it, and stick to it
Doc Hollyday:
I’m currently thinking of returning to agency work after 12 years working full time jobs. I’d appreciate any tips on how to “play the game” with agencies. I’m considering going self employed, but the rates I’m seeing are mostly around the £10 p/hr mark in the Warrington area. What is a reasonable rate as a minimum that I could ask?
Can’t really elaborate too much on my previous post in regards of how to “play the game” other than what I said. Maybe to add be firm but fair - if what they are asking you doesn’t suit you then don’t be forced into it. In the current climate the power is most definitely with the driver, unlike previous years where you may have received a response along the lines of “if you don’t do it there are plenty of others out there who will” - trust me no longer applies!
£10 per hour for the north west seems a little on the low side especially for s/e rates. Here in the East Midlands I’m currently working for £12-£13 per hour (That’s Mon-Fri day rate) Maybe I could get more but I’m happy at the places I’m at. Another point to consider is just because the agency tell you there paying say £11 per hour doesn’t mean there’s no room for negotiation. In the past I’ve managed to get work at up to £2.50 more than what was originally touted, granted it doesn’t always work but if you don’t ask you don’t get. At the moment too more and more agencies are prepared to shift on the rates.
Lastly you could also consider the idea of approaching companies direct, you cut out the agency and thusly can earn a higher hourly rate as the agency don’t have to take there cut. I have used this tactic myself, sign up to agency find out who there “clients” are, what the pay is then tell the agency after consideration I’m not interested then subsequently approach said company at a more attractive rate than the agency. The good thing with doing this too is the company can get to know your face, personality etc. without wondering what sort of driver the agency will send them.
Hope any of this helps.
ezydriver:
Doc Hollyday:
I’m currently thinking of returning to agency work after 12 years working full time jobs. I’d appreciate any tips on how to “play the game” with agencies. I’m considering going self employed, but the rates I’m seeing are mostly around the £10 p/hr mark in the Warrington area. What is a reasonable rate as a minimum that I could ask?When they ring you up, desperate, with an urgent job, and they offer you a very tempting hourly rate, tell them you want the assurance of that rate in an email BEFORE the shift starts. It may do you well to submit a copy of the email with your time sheet too. No email… then don’t accept the job. They’ll likely see to your demand if it’s the difference between finding a driver or not.
When signing up, make it very very clear which start times you want, how many days per week you want, and also what your minimum rate is. Stick rigidly to this regardless of how they try to manipulate your guilt or sense of allegiance or loyalty (there is no allegiance or loyalty, it’s quick and dirty business). For example “C’mon mate, you owe me a favour”, or “I was good to you by getting you into insert blue chip company so rub my back and I’ll rub yours”. No! If you don’t want to accept a shift, don’t, ever. They won’t drop you, because they need you too much. They’ll just learn you cannot be manipulated and give you what you want.
+1 to this as well as what I’ve just written above.
Too little, too late.
If you are currently working agency, and were desperate for a full time job, and now next week some yard offers you a full time job for nine pound somthing per hour… The agency tells you it’s £11.75 weekdays as of next week.
Are you gonna chuck the agency in, and take a pay cut? - Really? When even full time jobs don’t carry the securities they once used to?
There’s nothing to stop the yard giving you the boot in January, if and should the work go quiet as it has done in previous years.
Many drivers would consider taking a pay cut for “regular secure employment” - Even now.
The truth is though, that the existence of such is an illusion in today’s "lay off staff ‘last-in-first-out’ basis at the drop of a hat… 
If I were a boss, and someone told me he’d rather have £9ph with sick pay rather than £11.75ph with no rights, zero hours contract - I’d be highly suspicious of how much “sickying” they’re going to be doing over their time of employment at my firm! 
Mr Physick:
2 things have happened this week for me,on wednesday one of my former employers who I left on terrible terms with,rang me direct and virtually begged me to go back,regardless of what had happened.He told me they simply cannot find experienced drivers(tankers).Yesterday I called into my recent employer to download my card for the last time,again I was asked to reconsider my position as they too cannot find good men(4 more had jacked since I went 2 weeks ago).This shortage is real,and happening right now. There has never been a better time for us as HGV drivers to take back some of the higher ground that employers have taken from us over recent times.
It’s in our hands lads. It really is.
Now I’ve always found myself agreeing with this entire concept you put here.
What’s upsetting to me right now though is that I have requested “Tanker Training” and been offered DCPC modules (I’ve already done) instead.
FFS - No wonder there’s a shortage of people that are “experiencedd” if no one is prepared to train them up!
I’m interested in getting onto Agency tankers for Supermarkets… You’d think someone would be interested - but no. Over two decades of C+E experience and a clean licence - but no training available!
I’m not interested in working for a cheapo outfit that’ll no doubt get me to sign a “can’t leave” clause should they decide to train me up, but only pay me £7.80ph for a 50+ hour week…
“External training and in” or "join the firm paying the big bucks, and get trained by them in house. "It doesn’t make sense any other way. 
Winseer:
Too little, too late.If you are currently working agency, and were desperate for a full time job, and now next week some yard offers you a full time job for nine pound somthing per hour… The agency tells you it’s £11.75 weekdays as of next week.
Are you gonna chuck the agency in, and take a pay cut? - Really? When even full time jobs don’t carry the securities they once used to?
There’s nothing to stop the yard giving you the boot in January, if and should the work go quiet as it has done in previous years.
Many drivers would consider taking a pay cut for “regular secure employment” - Even now.
The truth is though, that the existence of such is an illusion in today’s "lay off staff ‘last-in-first-out’ basis at the drop of a hat…
If I were a boss, and someone told me he’d rather have £9ph with sick pay rather than £11.75ph with no rights, zero hours contract - I’d be highly suspicious of how much “sickying” they’re going to be doing over their time of employment at my firm!
There’s no such thing as a full time secure permanent job anymore. So all the people who mock those choosing agency/self employment route I can tell you that for the last 2 years when I’ve supposedly taken January & February off with no pay you are very wrong.
The opportunities are out there, you just have to go and look for them and get what you want.
tmcassett:
There’s no such thing as a full time secure permanent job anymore.
I believe there is.
tmcassett:
The opportunities are out there, you just have to go and look for them and get what you want.
Precisely:grin:
Pimpdaddy:
tmcassett:
There’s no such thing as a full time secure permanent job anymore.
I believe there is.
tmcassett:
You’ve missed my point there, I was placing emphasis on the word “secure”. The days of companies offering people jobs for life are long gone and have been since well before my time (I’m only 31). I should add that there is loads and loads of full time permanent work but this wasn’t what I was referring too.
Some very good advice, thanks for all the replies. 
