gingerfold:
It’s probably a ratio of 1 in 20: for every 20 approaches you make to a potential client you might get one to say yes. I spent several hours last weekend working on a rates matrix for a potential new customer that approached us, and I have more work to do on it this weekend. It’s not a simple A to B rating matrix, it involves multi-drop and other things such as tail lifts. Will I win the business? I honestly don’t know but it’s worth the time and effort.that’s the way it works exactly, you are spot on. for every 10 refusals it is worth 1 good paying customer and so it continues
gingerfold:
It’s probably a ratio of 1 in 20: for every 20 approaches you make to a potential client you might get one to say yes. I spent several hours last weekend working on a rates matrix for a potential new customer that approached us, and I have more work to do on it this weekend. It’s not a simple A to B rating matrix, it involves multi-drop and other things such as tail lifts. Will I win the business? I honestly don’t know but it’s worth the time and effort.
It is worth the time and effort when there is at least one other emloyee earning revenue while the calculations and presentation are prepared. What becomes more of a gamble however is when the only revenue earner - the O/D - has to take time a considerable number of hours away from that paying work to prepare his quotation. When work is slack and the mind is concentrated on seeking additional contracts, if successful then it really pays dividends, but that is normally when every competitor is in the same boat and chasing the same work. Where the real crux bites is when one, and everyone else is really busy, because that is the time when such approaches are likely to be fruitful, but to gain it is probably necessary to have to take time out from that vital mainstream revenue earning work. Catch 22 again.
kr79:
Even with a freight forwarder container line ferry trailer operator rtc you have to deal with someone who gives the work out.
There will be some oweer drivers will always get the handy one drop one load fast tip and loads etc wethe that’s because they have been there longest or are dropping a envelope in with there invoice or they drink with the planner or just the fact they have proven over time to be reliable and will always help when there’s a flap on. It’s a fact of life in any industry.
I can only go by my own experience in the day.In which I based the majority if not all of my business model on nmm’s second option.On the basis of traction work also being classed in that case as a working for a ‘forwarder’ type example.With even before getting a truck and starting up the feedback from numerous sources was nothing less than positive and a totally different environment regards if you want to do the job it’s there with non of the pecking order and ‘experience’ bs I experienced in the employed driver environment.
While rates quoted seemed to be a different world v fuel costs in the day compared to examples now like £1.20 something per mile at 60p per mile fuel costs for example. 
On that note trust me the only thing that stopped me was lack of start up capital nothing more.Everything else having fallen into place like clockwork regards reasonable rates v costs and plenty of work options.Bearing in mind at that time the cheap to buy,old bullet proof,cheap to maintain,Brit spec workhorse was also a viable choice 
weewulliewinkie:
a business model of covering costs with enough left over for a decent wage …is exactly what Ive been banging on about all trough this thread, that wont make you any profit, “no direct access to a customer base” is absolute nonsense, pick up the phone or chap a door and you have an instant potential customer base …whats the worst they can say “no thanks” so go on to the next one on the list. its an ongoing neverending task buts that’s the way to do it, as I said earlier it will only work if you make it work
But can you really say that historically in the real world the owner driver model v haulage company one,isn’t in many/most cases,that of working as a sub contractor,through an intermediary.In which just earning a decent wage out of the job,with the intermediary understandably taking a large cut,are the main aim. 
Even then there was probably still favourites on any firm.
Speaking from seeing my father working for a guy who had 3 motors on brinor doing Italy and Greece you could make good money on there but you made it by having a belly tank and running on the wire and ducking and diving.
Nmm probably worked on numerous firms running that or had mates that did work that way for brinor Mondial etc and you probably wouldn’t of lasted long with them unless you run like that but no one would broadcast that.
Carryfast:
weewulliewinkie:
a business model of covering costs with enough left over for a decent wage …is exactly what Ive been banging on about all trough this thread, that wont make you any profit, “no direct access to a customer base” is absolute nonsense, pick up the phone or chap a door and you have an instant potential customer base …whats the worst they can say “no thanks” so go on to the next one on the list. its an ongoing neverending task buts that’s the way to do it, as I said earlier it will only work if you make it workBut can you really say that historically in the real world the owner driver model v haulage company one,isn’t in many/most cases,that of working as a sub contractor,through an intermediary.In which just earning a decent wage out of the job,with the intermediary understandably taking a large cut,are the main aim.
I’d say it’s always happened but realistically anyone that lasted long term looked to have a wage but also a profit to be be salted sway for rainy days and a replacement truck.
As nmm said eairlier pay your self a wage then let a surplus build up in the business account and maybe upgrade the truck or use it to look at dyversyfing and growing by maybe buying a different trailer as there’s work for that or maybe draw it out and treat yourself.
When running a business there has to be some reward over been a wage slave.
To the current O/D or small haulier members on this thread,
what are your present day truck purchase “policies”■■
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
As I mentioned before two of my mates on same work one is 3 year lease with r&m other is but from volvo approved at 3-4 years and run them until they are past there best but he is a handy with a spanner.
Both are happy with there chosen route.
kr79:
Carryfast:
weewulliewinkie:
a business model of covering costs with enough left over for a decent wage …is exactly what Ive been banging on about all trough this thread, that wont make you any profit, “no direct access to a customer base” is absolute nonsense, pick up the phone or chap a door and you have an instant potential customer base …whats the worst they can say “no thanks” so go on to the next one on the list. its an ongoing neverending task buts that’s the way to do it, as I said earlier it will only work if you make it workBut can you really say that historically in the real world the owner driver model v haulage company one,isn’t in many/most cases,that of working as a sub contractor,through an intermediary.In which just earning a decent wage out of the job,with the intermediary understandably taking a large cut,are the main aim.
I’d say it’s always happened but realistically anyone that lasted long term looked to have a wage but also a profit to be be salted sway for rainy days and a replacement truck.
As nmm said eairlier pay your self a wage then let a surplus build up in the business account and maybe upgrade the truck or use it to look at dyversyfing and growing by maybe buying a different trailer as there’s work for that or maybe draw it out and treat yourself.
When running a business there has to be some reward over been a wage slave.
Firstly a large factor in the reward side of the equation at least in my case was/would have been escaping from the downsides of the employed driver situation.That obviously applies differently in the case of anyone who’s happy with and got the breaks they are/were looking for as an employed driver.But the reference point is a lot different in the case of anyone who isn’t happy with the employed driver situation/breaks.
While the issue of replacement and depreciation ( should be ) built into the costings before thinking about the wage figure.IE that figure is obviously accounted for within the definition of paying yourself a decent wage.Which then leaves the question is the intention that of growing as a haulage company or just staying as an owner driver.The former would obviously mean a different business plan than the latter.With the former obviously needing that direct customer work while the latter could arguably happily survive based on the sub contractor model.
What is certain is that neither model will work at £1.20 per mile type rates with 60p per mile fuel costs. 
Don’t like R&M. Yes it gives you fixed costs, but despite being Euro hauliers, we don’t do heavy mileage and keep the trucks for up to 8 years. I’ve found that R&M trucks suddenly need a lot doing to them just after the lease ends compared to one you’ve looked after yourself.
There was a thread on factoring and people - mostly who had never tried it themselves - were very negative. But I’ve used it for around 15 years and currently have no finance, despite having purchased a few vehicles and trailers this year.
Ultimately what works for me, won’t work for someone else and vice versa.
I actually don’t take a wage, never have, I take what I need out of the business account and leave the rest in there. Sometimes what I need far exceeds what I could earn as a wage, most of the time it’s significantly less.
That changes when you become Ltd, then you have to take a wage, but again you can make that low and pay yourself dividends when you need a few quid extra and it makes sense to do it that way for tax purposes.
As I’ve always controlled my bank accounts it doesn’t matter which of my accounts the money sits in, however my accountants have advised me to keep my wages as low as possible in order to take advantage of the tax concessions that a business has.
Wherever the money sits and no matter what my “wage” is, I still aim for that grand a week after fixed and running costs, less wages of course. I also figure that out quarterly at the least as the peaks and troughs can make doing it monthly depressing reading and doing it weekly, or even worse daily, would mean you would never sleep at night.
Carryfast you are showing your lack of business experience in your posts on this thread, nothing wrong with that as you don’t have any business experience, just as anybody thinking about being an O/D won’t have. The thing that underlines this more than anything is that you say that you could’ve made things work from the information you got over the phone to freight forwarders. In some ways it’s a bloody good job you never had the start up capital as if you had based a business model on what those types had told you then you would’ve come a cropper in a short period. They tell lies, it’s easy to tell when they’re lying too as their lips will be moving
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Big Truck:
To the current O/D or small haulier members on this thread,
what are your present day truck purchase “policies”■■Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
For me it would have been now just as it would have been then.It’s a calculated gamble of balancing and minimising purchase and depreciation costs against reliabilty and maintenance costs.Which with current fuel costs and legislative requirements is probably a case of mission impossible.IE if it was me it would probably be something along the lines now of the most reasonably priced Australian import with ■■■■■■■ N14 or Detroit 60 series and Fuller combination I could find then run it for just long enough that hopefully nothing major breaks then export it back again.Then buy a relatively newer one than the last was to replace it etc etc. Unfortunately current legislation and fuel costs would make that mission impossible.
Which probably leaves the more risky choice of trying to do same with a Euro type wagon.Or even more risky choice of exposure to big purchase/finance costs and possible maintenance costs combined with high depreciation costs.
I don’t really have a set in stone way of buying trucks other than maybe 3/4 year old low kms as poss, and really the best deal I can get for the cash available at the time. Also depending on what type of work it will be doing is taken into account.
newmercman:
Carryfast you are showing your lack of business experience in your posts on this thread, nothing wrong with that as you don’t have any business experience, just as anybody thinking about being an O/D won’t have. The thing that underlines this more than anything is that you say that you could’ve made things work from the information you got over the phone to freight forwarders. In some ways it’s a bloody good job you never had the start up capital as if you had based a business model on what those types had told you then you would’ve come a cropper in a short period. They tell lies, it’s easy to tell when they’re lying too as their lips will be moving
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To be fair you might be right naivety would have sunk me in an obvious mine field trading environment. 
But look on the bright side I’m going by the idea that I wouldn’t have been alone and I guess that plenty of those who at least survived financially and had a brilliant time in the job in the day managed to make that business model work for them ?.On that note I’d guess that staying with the big well known forwarders would have at least provided less of a gamble in that regard on the basis that they surely couldn’t have got where they were by stitching up their subbies ?.
But I’d be the first to admit that sadly in today’s toxic trading environment there’s no way that even the most naive younger CF would have thought about making the jump.On that note any prospective new start probably won’t go far wrong if they take Harry’s advice on the issue.
As nmm said to say I need X amount as a wage isnt going to work realist clydebank but you need to over a year have taken a decent chunk for yourself. Wether that be a few quid a week and a chunk of cash every now and then or try and say I need that a month but you can’t expect it every week.
Are you ■■■■■■ Kev?
whats Clydebank got to do with all this, its a silly wee town on the outskirts of Glasgow with not a lot going for it 
Carryfast, I’m not suggesting that they would stitch you up, but they would make things sound a lot rosier than they really are. To put that into perspective for the kind of Euro work you would’ve been looking at, they would promise a trip a week to Barcelona or Milan for example, but then you’d get to Barcelona and end up doing three or four drops and you would have to go down to Valencia for a load of onions that were tipping in all three London markets, then your next export would be a load out of Leicester, or you’d get to Milan and do a couple of drops and be ready for a reload on Wednesday, only they haven’t got enough freight to fill your trailer, so you end up leaving on Friday. This would happen at least once a month and no matter how much you turned and burned, you would never make up the lost trips in a year, you would always be four or five down on what you could’ve achieved if the transport gods were looking after you. Four or five list trips is a whole month’s revenue and if you’re only pulling a wage out of the job then you will not make money out the venture, you may survive, but surviving is a miserable way to go about living, whereas having a nice few quid in the bank is rather nice.
There were methods to combat the decreased revenue from these inevitable lost trips, red diesel and disregarding driving hour’s laws being popular, however I couldn’t possibly comment on those matters as I wouldn’t dream of bending the rules myself…
Not ■■■■■■ but for some reason my spellchecker goes mad on trucknet.
It ruins swearwords all the time which is bad as I like to duck and cut or something like that.
Clydebank should be realistically