My dream is to own my own truck

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OWNER AND FLEET OPERATORS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

albion:

Stanley Mitchell:
Im always amazed how lads that have been in the job for years don`t really have a clue how it all works :open_mouth:

I`ve got a few “mates” who are talking about getting a “unit” at the moment, they have been driving for years, and are very good drivers, but this doesn’t mean you will be an excellent business person.

Six months of being a “LTD” driver doesn’t make you the next Bill Gates, that`s for sure…do they listen ?, do they [zb] :unamused:

Every now and then I get one of the lads to look after the desk for a day in an emergency…they always come away wiser weaker men, and that’s just doing the operation side, nevermind the accounts, the compliance, purchasing etc etc.

I quite enjoyed my time working in the operation side of a haulage company, would have been a great job if it wasn’t for the Drivers, the Customers, the road conditions, the delivery points and the collection points. :laughing:

22

The cpc is easy mate, just one step at a time, take your breath regular, you’ll cruise it if u give yourself 30 hours and a structured approach.
Regards the unit, by then you’ll already know a lot more about how the truck earns and who you’ll be needing to talk to.
How about you go in with somebody? What about taxis or minibus if u wanna get on the owner driver route.

23

forget big wheels , I make more ppm with a 12 tonner, same with a 7.5 and come to think of it a 3.5 tonne dropside, and I have run everything from an ldv to a 44t in uk and european

24

I cant imagine the meeting with the bank manager (if he actually gets one after explaining what he wants to do),will get much further than ‘good morning , i’m planning to buy a 44tonne truck to work in haulage and i need finance’, closely followed by 'sorry goodbye’and the soft click of the door closing.
Banks and trucks dont get on, and if you REALLY want to own one , you’d better spend several years accrueing a large wad of cash , 20 to 30k or so i would think. Remember once you start , there’s no money coming in , anybody who pays weekly isn’t paying enough to live on and run an artic. We pay on 60 day from receipt of invoice, and thats by no means unusual, and the accounts dept love to pick a fault so they can delay even further.
It might be 30 years since i gave up owning, but i still have the scars, been a few years driving then transport managing for most of the intervening years, blissfully in semi retirement on a 4 day 7am to 3:30pm job in the transport dept of a manufacturer now

25

Digit, when you get your class 1 licence, register a LTDif you havent got one, find yourself a job as class 1 driver and work for some time so you can get some experience in a transport business 1st before considering buying your own truck and becoming an od.As you know you’ll need cpc national hauleage certificate which also takes time so all together that would take you at least 8-10 months before you want to get any sort of loans or to get a finance.
I can give you my own opinion about becoming an OD.I used to work as a class 1 driver for 9 years and during all that time I was thinking about geting my own truck and working for myself.Just 2 years ago I did pass cpc national&international hauleage then applied for OP licence and I was granted, bought one truck to start with and at the moment Ive got 4 trucks and employing 3 drivers.However if you ask me “Are you happier now?” my answer would be NO im not happier whatsoever.If you ask me “Do you earn more money now?” My answer would be Yes I do but I pay a higher price for that and sacrifice many other things that cannot be replaced.Im missing my nights at home with my wife and children , my private life is long gone, my smile is long gone and what I get instead is sleepless nights,stress and other problems related to the business.
So my virtual friend if I can return the time back to the day I decided to get myself involved in this business I have to say that I’d rather get £20000 loan from the bank and give them to an elderly care home than starting this business.
As I said that’s my own opinion about the things mate so you dont have to take it as an advice.

Whish you all the best !

26

HokayT:
Digit, when you get your class 1 licence, register a LTDif you havent got one, find yourself a job as class 1 driver and work for some time so you can get some experience in a transport business 1st before considering buying your own truck and becoming an od.As you know you’ll need cpc national hauleage certificate which also takes time so all together that would take you at least 8-10 months before you want to get any sort of loans or to get a finance.
I can give you my own opinion about becoming an OD.I used to work as a class 1 driver for 9 years and during all that time I was thinking about geting my own truck and working for myself.Just 2 years ago I did pass cpc national&international hauleage then applied for OP licence and I was granted, bought one truck to start with and at the moment Ive got 4 trucks and employing 3 drivers.However if you ask me “Are you happier now?” my answer would be NO im not happier whatsoever.If you ask me “Do you earn more money now?” My answer would be Yes I do but I pay a higher price for that and sacrifice many other things that cannot be replaced.Im missing my nights at home with my wife and children , my private life is long gone, my smile is long gone and what I get instead is sleepless nights,stress and other problems related to the business.
So my virtual friend if I can return the time back to the day I decided to get myself involved in this business I have to say that I’d rather get £20000 loan from the bank and give them to an elderly care home than starting this business.
As I said that’s my own opinion about the things mate so you dont have to take it as an advice.

Whish you all the best !

Think maybe time to bite the bullet and blow the trucks down the road!!!

Your 3 drivers should have no bother finding other jobs and hopefully just hand the trucks back if leased/hired or sell up and clear the HP.

Heath/family WAY more important than running a business in which your unhappy!!![emoji6]

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27

Seriously, forget any dreams of running a truck on sub contract for any of the usual suspects, Maritime, Stobart, Wincanton etc etc etc…
I’ve said it before on a number of posts, these people are advertising week after week for one reason…god awful rates that will only end in tears. If youre going to do it you have to specialise or be in the enviable position of working on a contract direct for a customer.
£1.35 per mile will not sustain a haulage business, this is only my opinion mind and I stand to be corrected if there are any companies making a living at these rates. Me personally my bottom charge out rate for my super best customers is £2 per mile and that only happens if it’s the difference to them making a sale and picking up new work themselves, the rest of the time £2.20 per mile.
It’s a tough world out there and even after 12 years I’m only just about to put my 4th truck on the road.(R500 :smiley: )

Please do your homework and think out of the box, don’t go for the low hanging fruit such as containers…even ADR ISO tanks can pay a little better if you’re willing to invest in the higher spec kit.

28

muckles:

albion:

Stanley Mitchell:
Im always amazed how lads that have been in the job for years don`t really have a clue how it all works :open_mouth:

I`ve got a few “mates” who are talking about getting a “unit” at the moment, they have been driving for years, and are very good drivers, but this doesn’t mean you will be an excellent business person.

Six months of being a “LTD” driver doesn’t make you the next Bill Gates, that`s for sure…do they listen ?, do they [zb] :unamused:

Every now and then I get one of the lads to look after the desk for a day in an emergency…they always come away wiser weaker men, and that’s just doing the operation side, nevermind the accounts, the compliance, purchasing etc etc.

I quite enjoyed my time working in the operation side of a haulage company, would have been a great job if it wasn’t for the Drivers, the Customers, the road conditions, the delivery points and the collection points. [emoji38]

So it’s the coffee that keeps you in the job then! It’s nice when you have something to look forward to at work every day.

To the OP, I’m in a similar position to you except I have 5 years worth of miles under me. From my very early research you can’t make it pay without at least £40k of start up capital. That would let you put something like a 6 year old premium on the road.

I’m currently doing the job we are both thinking about and at the moment it’s looking just about doable provided you own the truck outright, along with your own Skelly. Its so tight that even paying the £90 + VAT for trailer hire is the difference between profit and loss for this week.

Last week would have been a bit healthier, I would have made nearly £800 profit last week.

Get some experience, then sit down and rethink it. Ideally get on with someone who already subs for your preferred customer so you can get accurate information. Get shot of your plans to put something like a 13 plate Actros BigSpace ( which is what £40k plus vat will get you) on the road now. Willy waving when you start up is a surefire way to go pop early.

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29

Digit369:
Hi

I’m currently doing my class one then after I’m going to do my cpc transport manager course
I know it’s a way off but I live in Southampton and want to work as a subbie. I know I need to get experience first so will work for some one first. Does any one know can you get the finance on the truck I’m looking at 40k but I have no garuntoor or morgtage so not sure if bank would give me the finance. Could I work as a ltd co driver for a few years and save up say 14k for o licence and insurance, will the bank see I can manage the funds right then give me the ok.

How much can you get out of a truck a day pm or do you day hire it?
Is it return loads you need?

Thanks in advance:-)

Do yourself a favour mate… ask these questions on UK business forums http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/ or even find some US trucking forums, because us Brits are not really that entrepreneurial, and as you can see most of the answers here are quite negative, and delight in telling you how you’ll fail before you even start!!

The Americans have a more ‘Can-do’ attitude towards business, and will give you ideas and suggestions to help you realise your dream… If you want it bad enough, you’ll make it reality!

Just think ‘Outside the box’ and find a niche… don’t just follow what all the other owner drivers are doing.

I do agree with the other members though… it’s a tough way to make a living! Good Luck

30

I think its more reality the not being entrepreneurial. One thing to do that will give you a better idea is to get on with a small haulier 3-6 trucks as you’ll learn more about how things work on the business side as well as the driving and maintenance sides too

31

Lennoxtown, what would a yank know about UK road haulage? It’s a vastly different beast over here. Fuel is massively more expensive. Equipment is different. Record keeping is different.

All talking to an American would do is fill the OPs head with irrelevant optimism and blind him to the realities of the business.

It’s easy to be filled with can-do optimism when you don’t have a hundred thousand European trucks undercutting your rates and eroding profit margins. We have a much more hostile business environment.

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32

nsmith1180:

muckles:

albion:

Stanley Mitchell:
Im always amazed how lads that have been in the job for years don`t really have a clue how it all works :open_mouth:

I`ve got a few “mates” who are talking about getting a “unit” at the moment, they have been driving for years, and are very good drivers, but this doesn’t mean you will be an excellent business person.

Six months of being a “LTD” driver doesn’t make you the next Bill Gates, that`s for sure…do they listen ?, do they [zb] :unamused:

Every now and then I get one of the lads to look after the desk for a day in an emergency…they always come away wiser weaker men, and that’s just doing the operation side, nevermind the accounts, the compliance, purchasing etc etc.

I quite enjoyed my time working in the operation side of a haulage company, would have been a great job if it wasn’t for the Drivers, the Customers, the road conditions, the delivery points and the collection points. [emoji38]

So it’s the coffee that keeps you in the job then! It’s nice when you have something to look forward to at work every day.

To the OP, I’m in a similar position to you except I have 5 years worth of miles under me. From my very early research you can’t make it pay without at least £40k of start up capital. That would let you put something like a 6 year old premium on the road.

I’m currently doing the job we are both thinking about and at the moment it’s looking just about doable provided you own the truck outright, along with your own Skelly. Its so tight that even paying the £90 + VAT for trailer hire is the difference between profit and loss for this week.

Last week would have been a bit healthier, I would have made nearly £800 profit last week.

Get some experience, then sit down and rethink it. Ideally get on with someone who already subs for your preferred customer so you can get accurate information. Get shot of your plans to put something like a 13 plate Actros BigSpace ( which is what £40k plus vat will get you) on the road now. Willy waving when you start up is a surefire way to go pop early.

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Does the money to replace the 6yr old Premium somewhere down the line come out of the good week of £800 “profits” or have you accounted for that already??
The £800 after you’ve taken a wage or before■■?
Would guess be a long time paying yourself back the original £40k investment!!![emoji52]

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33

My number is based on 1.21 per mile less 500 pay and expenses, 300 for the unit, 800 for diesel and AdBlue and an R&M package. I’ve also mentally put aside money for tyres and breakdowns. The only figure not included in that is Road, GIT and Employers Liability insurance.

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34

nsmith1180:
My number is based on 1.21 per mile less 500 pay and expenses, 300 for the unit, 800 for diesel and AdBlue and an R&M package. I’ve also mentally put aside money for tyres and breakdowns. The only figure not included in that is Road, GIT and Employers Liability insurance.

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Your £40k capital gonna take awhile to pay back then!!![emoji52]

CRAZY!!!
Invest that £40k capital in a good ISA trust fund and sit on arse and watch it grow tax free.
Just work PAYE for good firm tramping in a nice new big cab wagon and lift £600+ in wages most Fri afternoons.
Can’t for the life of me figure why you’d go O/D (and all that extra hassle )for those figures above and live in a Premium all week!!![emoji52]

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35

Big Truck:
Invest that £40k capital in a good ISA trust fund and sit on arse and watch it grow tax free.

If I’ve read it right the £40 k figure is based on borrowed money.In which case if the return on ISA’s bought with borrowed cash was better than the loan repayments then we’d all be borrowing millions from the banks in the knowledge that we can’t lose. :open_mouth: :laughing:

Realistically there are lots of good reasons to be an owner driver rather than an employed one.Such as avoiding all experience and other pecking order bs in the industry with more access to the right type of work.

The problem in this case being the unviable level of fuel costs as a proportion of costs.Combined with legislation which counts against the usual new start formula of finding the most reliable and durable older type wagon possible for the least possible capital outlay and then gamble that its reliability and durability will outweigh its potential maintenance costs.

As opposed to the more certain failure of the formula which maximises initial ( borrowed ) capital outlay to buy the newest truck possible in the hope that the resulting finance can be paid off and depreciation/replacement costs can be written off even in the best of trading environments.Let alone in that toxic trading environment of massive fuel costs and minimal rates.

36

Big Truck:

nsmith1180:
My number is based on 1.21 per mile less 500 pay and expenses, 300 for the unit, 800 for diesel and AdBlue and an R&M package. I’ve also mentally put aside money for tyres and breakdowns. The only figure not included in that is Road, GIT and Employers Liability insurance.

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Your £40k capital gonna take awhile to pay back then!!![emoji52]

CRAZY!!!
Invest that £40k capital in a good ISA trust fund and sit on arse and watch it grow tax free.
Just work PAYE for good firm tramping in a nice new big cab wagon and lift £600+ in wages most Fri afternoons.
Can’t for the life of me figure why you’d go O/D (and all that extra hassle )for those figures above and live in a Premium all week!!![emoji52]

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Looking at the past two weeks, which are the only two weeks on which I have accurate numbers :

Two weeks of Maritime Subbyism:
3560 Mi x 1.21 per mile = 4738.36 on flat rate VAT scheme.

773.33 Expenses and Salary
1421.25 Diesel
50 AdBlue
26.00 ONP
1000 Unit
216 - R&M (Volvo plan price advertised at dealer last time I was in)
162.31 - Insurance - RHA estimate.

3648.89 Total expenses

1089.47 Left over.

26,147.28 Annual Profit

Less tyres Assume one full set a year, £200 a wheel = 2400 + 2 punctures = 2800

23,347.28

20.5 Months to repay initial capital investment.

As you can for vehicle costs and tyres where I cant get an exact estimation I have gone pessimistic so the profit amount would have been higher but I believe in planning on pessimistic assumptions.

I will also point out that I wasn’t the one talking about spending £40k. My plans are for something like a 6 year old Premium or Axor which will set me back about 15-20 + VAT, add in a reasonable condition skelly and a bit of TLC from myself, the 7.5 you need to have, costs of O-Licence etc and you are looking at £30kish for the start up of which 20% is reclaimable, even on the flat rate scheme.

Give it a year or so of that and I could always Part Exchange the start up truck against something still used but newer with more space, or I could run for a 18 months and put a second wagon on the road, put a driver in it and continue to grow the fleet.

But getting back to my original point further up. While I am starting the saving now to have the money available, putting in the classroom time to get the CPC and ADR qualifications I will need and writing the business plan, I don’t intend on doing anything until I have a full year written down in my little book so I can take a look at average income over the full period, time the purchase so I start working the vehicle at the most profitable time allowing me to re-build the balance in case of an early breakdown and have the best chance of success. Only in a very exceptional set of circumstances would I even consider lumbering myself with £40k of loans, if I decide that new is best, it will be a basic model on a lease so that if it goes ■■■■ up I can hand it back and walk away.

I can always stick in a camping fridge and a 2000 watt inverter if I want nice things in the cab.

37

nsmith1180:
Looking at the past two weeks, which are the only two weeks on which I have accurate numbers :

Two weeks of Maritime Subbyism:
3560 Mi x 1.21 per mile = 4738.36 on flat rate VAT scheme.

773.33 Expenses and Salary
1421.25 Diesel
50 AdBlue
26.00 ONP
1000 Unit
216 - R&M (Volvo plan price advertised at dealer last time I was in)
162.31 - Insurance - RHA estimate.

3648.89 Total expenses

1089.47 Left over.

26,147.28 Annual Profit

Less tyres Assume one full set a year, £200 a wheel = 2400 + 2 punctures = 2800

23,347.28

20.5 Months to repay initial capital investment.

As you can for vehicle costs and tyres where I cant get an exact estimation I have gone pessimistic so the profit amount would have been higher but I believe in planning on pessimistic assumptions.

I will also point out that I wasn’t the one talking about spending £40k. My plans are for something like a 6 year old Premium or Axor which will set me back about 15-20 + VAT, add in a reasonable condition skelly and a bit of TLC from myself, the 7.5 you need to have, costs of O-Licence etc and you are looking at £30kish for the start up of which 20% is reclaimable, even on the flat rate scheme.

Give it a year or so of that and I could always Part Exchange the start up truck against something still used but newer with more space, or I could run for a 18 months and put a second wagon on the road, put a driver in it and continue to grow the fleet.

But getting back to my original point further up. While I am starting the saving now to have the money available, putting in the classroom time to get the CPC and ADR qualifications I will need and writing the business plan, I don’t intend on doing anything until I have a full year written down in my little book so I can take a look at average income over the full period, time the purchase so I start working the vehicle at the most profitable time allowing me to re-build the balance in case of an early breakdown and have the best chance of success. Only in a very exceptional set of circumstances would I even consider lumbering myself with £40k of loans, if I decide that new is best, it will be a basic model on a lease so that if it goes ■■■■ up I can hand it back and walk away.

I can always stick in a camping fridge and a 2000 watt inverter if I want nice things in the cab.

It might be worth reviewing that fuel cost figure for 3,560 miles on the basis of ? mpg at ? per gallon.

38

surely if you are lunatic to want to be a maritime type subby in a ham shanked out premium,have the ability to ignore constant advice and think after a couple of years you could add another truck to the existing “fleet” of a shagged to death premium,then hopefully he can continue to post updates on here so we can all have a good laugh as it all goes into a uphill struggle linked to a downhill financial disaster with the inevitable down the pan bankruptcy…go for it my good man,the world is your lobster.who wants a normal job where you can easily enough clear £6-700 pw with the option of if you get fedup,just jack it and move to a different type of work…get dripped up to your chin,subb yourself blind,and be your own boss.master of all you see.most of which will be reminders for unpaid bills…go for it… :smiley:

39

Carryfast:
It might be worth reviewing that fuel cost figure for 3,560 miles on the basis of ? mpg at ? per gallon.

Based on what I actually put in the damned thing at the most recent price from the Fuel Prices thread, thats next weeks UK fuels price of 108.9 inc VAT.

dieseldog999:
surely if you are lunatic to want to be a maritime type subby in a ham shanked out premium,have the ability to ignore constant advice and think after a couple of years you could add another truck to the existing “fleet” of a shagged to death premium,then hopefully he can continue to post updates on here so we can all have a good laugh as it all goes into a uphill struggle linked to a downhill financial disaster with the inevitable down the pan bankruptcy…go for it my good man,the world is your lobster.who wants a normal job where you can easily enough clear £6-700 pw with the option of if you get fedup,just jack it and move to a different type of work…get dripped up to your chin,subb yourself blind,and be your own boss.master of all you see.most of which will be reminders for unpaid bills…go for it… :smiley:

There are many-many ex-ND/XPO Premiums out there at 4-6 years old inside the budget I have listed. ND, when I worked for them looked after the trucks very well indeed for a fleet. As used trucks go, they are a safer bet than many others. Buy it well maintained, keep it well maintained and the chances of it continuing to work well are high. If you want an idea of how well older trucks work, just take a look at the Thompsons wagons running out of Devon. Most of em are older than my brother and pulling well even now.

I am not claiming big fleet grandeur but I would like to list a couple of names. Eddie Stobart, Norbert Dentressangle, Conrad Downton, Donald Malcom. You know what links all of these names? They all had an idea, they all gave it a try and they all started with 1 truck.

I also agree completely with your question, who does want, at my age, the prospect of another 30 years of the daily grind for £600 per week. Of course going down that route does give people, particularly you by the looks of it, the chance to run away to another dead end job.

Perhaps I am strange, perhaps I am deluded. I’m trying to do this in the most prepared way possible but, and hear me on this, I would rather fail horribly than know that I am too much of a coward even to try.

40

nsmith1180:
Lennoxtown, what would a yank know about UK road haulage? It’s a vastly different beast over here. Fuel is massively more expensive. Equipment is different. Record keeping is different.

All talking to an American would do is fill the OPs head with irrelevant optimism and blind him to the realities of the business.

It’s easy to be filled with can-do optimism when you don’t have a hundred thousand European trucks undercutting your rates and eroding profit margins. We have a much more hostile business environment.

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I agree with you on some respects nsmith1180… yes UK haulage and US haulage are vastly different beasts, but the principle remains the same, it’s essentially moving goods from A to B at a rate that allows a profit, and much of what happens in the US trucking industry would be transferable to the UK market… albeit on a smaller scale!

I’m NOT suggesting blind optimism, but more of a healthy attitude to what is possible if you actually set your mind to it and make it happen, rather than the usual negative & cynical ‘Why things can’t be done’ attitude us Brits seem to thrive on!

The guy needs helpful advice & encouragement… not a load of griping from bitter people who’ve perhaps tried and failed, or never had the balls to try!

If this chap fancies a go at being an owner driver then why not… or he could spend the rest of his life wondering ‘If only I’d had the balls to attempt it?’

There are plenty owner drivers out there making it work already… and remember Richard Branson knew bugger all about running an airline but it didn’t stop him having a go and massively succeeding