Unfortunately Muckles, drivers use the H/S when there’s an incident, because they’re much more important than waiting in a queue of traffic, nothing should stop them, they will even turn around and go the wrong way along the H/S to get back off on the entry slip at the last junction. the H/S is not used for it’s intended purpose a lot of the time.
With the smart motorways, large lay-by’s are built for emergencies, on the M42 managed motorway they are very frequent, the whole motorway is well covered with CCTV cameras, and each Emergency refuse is individually covered with cameras. There are control room operators designated just to watch & deal with the managed motorway part of the network, also with a HATO patrol stationed at each end of the MM ready to deploy immediately if anything should happen.
All the reports and feedback from this, even from those who were initially sceptical say that it works exceptionally well.
The new “All lanes running” Smart motorways will be slightly different, there will still be refuse lay-by’s, although not quite as frequent, there will still be full CCTV coverage, there will still be operators specific to that function. we wait and see.
As Smoggie99 says, the network is virtually clogged from 7-15am until well after 10am each weekday morning, something desperately needs to be done. Costs, practicality etc. point it into using what is already there as much as possible, Smart / managed motorways will give that extra capacity, plus some of the bottle-neck junctions will get redesigned in the process.
Can I ask Smoggie99 a question? We used to set congestion messages, ie. “Congestion J18-J12” informing those that don’t know how long the queue will be so they could take an alternative route if they wished, We no longer do that (unless there has been an incident causing the problem) were those type of messages useful or not? we believe the congestion has got worse since we gave over setting these.
PS. Has anyone noticed how there is very little congestion when the schools are on holiday?
Apart from cash some of the main blockers to new road building, building ALR (all Lane running) rather than Smart Motorways etc is environmentalists and nimbys, Things like air quality levels, noise etc are preventing and holding up many jobs coupled with a nimby to use the above to slow down/halt things and there u go.
The real Biffo:
Unfortunately Muckles, drivers use the H/S when there’s an incident, because they’re much more important than waiting in a queue of traffic, nothing should stop them, they will even turn around and go the wrong way along the H/S to get back off on the entry slip at the last junction. the H/S is not used for it’s intended purpose a lot of the time.
With the smart motorways, large lay-by’s are built for emergencies, on the M42 managed motorway they are very frequent, the whole motorway is well covered with CCTV cameras, and each Emergency refuse is individually covered with cameras. There are control room operators designated just to watch & deal with the managed motorway part of the network, also with a HATO patrol stationed at each end of the MM ready to deploy immediately if anything should happen.
All the reports and feedback from this, even from those who were initially sceptical say that it works exceptionally well.
The new “All lanes running” Smart motorways will be slightly different, there will still be refuse lay-by’s, although not quite as frequent, there will still be full CCTV coverage, there will still be operators specific to that function. we wait and see.
As Smoggie99 says, the network is virtually clogged from 7-15am until well after 10am each weekday morning, something desperately needs to be done. Costs, practicality etc. point it into using what is already there as much as possible, Smart / managed motorways will give that extra capacity, plus some of the bottle-neck junctions will get redesigned in the process.
Can I ask Smoggie99 a question? We used to set congestion messages, ie. “Congestion J18-J12” informing those that don’t know how long the queue will be so they could take an alternative route if they wished, We no longer do that (unless there has been an incident causing the problem) were those type of messages useful or not? we believe the congestion has got worse since we gave over setting these.
PS. Has anyone noticed how there is very little congestion when the schools are on holiday?
I think the messages along the lines of jct 12-18 etc would be helpful to local people better , knowing the area they would be able to divert easier and deffinatley agree with the holidays being less clogged, last week was brilliant , still abit of traffic but nout like usual , the M60 & M61 can be a right PITA at rush hour(s) lol , the traffic doesn’t stress me out it’s the people in front not knowing what to do , weaving from lane to lane trying to get a couple of spaces ahead , speeding off then heavy braking causes more problems than enough
That junction is one of the area’s that’s up for improvement, I’ve not seen the plans, but it’s going to be horrendous whilst work is carried out. The other problem is that land around there, it’s very bad ground, the M61/M60 interchange there is actually built of pedestals sunk into the ground, similar to a bridge, just so they could find ground good enough to support the weight, so any widening is going to be a big job.
When they start on these, it’ll be 2 years of hell! we’ve just to hope that there is a drastic improvement afterwards.
I have a friend that travels daily on the M62 bit around J26 -J28, he is nothing but praise for it now that it’s opened with the H/S running. we shall see what happens around J15 / M60 then
The biggest problem with managed motorways are the overhead gantry cameras and speed limit signs. Most car drivers seem happy enough to break the speed limit when they think there are no cameras around, but the moment they see a camera sign and 40mph displayed on the gantries it’s anchors on and the whole section of motorway grinds to a halt.
Not having a dig at car drivers. It only takes one in each lane who is not used to motorways to cause congestion. I did the same when I was a new car driver and when I started on vans. I’m not advocating speeding, it just seems that managed motorways cause more problems than they solve.
Are they automatically controlled based on traffic density? I’ve seen congestion warnings and 50mph limits when the road is clear and no signs at all when the traffic is crawling. Whatever, it’s flawed.
Ched:
The biggest problem with managed motorways are the overhead gantry cameras and speed limit signs. Most car drivers seem happy enough to break the speed limit when they think there are no cameras around, but the moment they see a camera sign and 40mph displayed on the gantries it’s anchors on and the whole section of motorway grinds to a halt.
I have to disagree with you here, because drivers know there are automatic penalties if you break the speed limit through these types of motorway, the traffic flows better, at the posted speed, rather than the rush & brake that you get normally.
As to how they’re controlled, I can’t comment for sure, we don’t have them yet, but they’re going to start to working on them any day now in our area.
The real Biffo:
That junction is one of the area’s that’s up for improvement, I’ve not seen the plans, but it’s going to be horrendous whilst work is carried out. The other problem is that land around there, it’s very bad ground, the M61/M60 interchange there is actually built of pedestals sunk into the ground, similar to a bridge, just so they could find ground good enough to support the weight, so any widening is going to be a big job.
When they start on these, it’ll be 2 years of hell! we’ve just to hope that there is a drastic improvement afterwards.
I have a friend that travels daily on the M62 bit around J26 -J28, he is nothing but praise for it now that it’s opened with the H/S running. we shall see what happens around J15 / M60 then
J15 is where I come off at usually to get to Wigan, it’s a lot better when the h/s is open aswell but obv if an incident occurred then there would be problems , I am dreading work being carried out because it will just be a ■■■■■■■■■■■ lol but hey ho we can only do what we can do hey… Another thing that is annoying is the matrix signs ,this morning I was travelling m62 e when there was the signs flashing que caution 40mph ( 6:30ish) then a couple of hundred metres after the next set of signs said end? Of course people were braking heavy then shooting off as there was nothing there ■■ Why does this happen , as someone above mentioned signs saying 50 etc when there is no1 around …
Any signal, with a message sign about “Queue, slow down /caution / ahead” are set automatically by sensors in the c/way similar to the wires set into the tarmac prior to traffic lights. (if you look carefully, you can see a square about 3ft sq. in each lane at regular intervals along the busy stretches of motorway, ie. not where there is only the very old central res wickets)
As traffic flows across these, it senses the average speed, if that falls between 40 - 50mph, it will set 50’s “Queue slow” if the speed goes even lower than 40mph, then it will change to 40’s “queue slow” also setting the one previous to that to 50’s. Normally it will not show a lower speed than 40mph, unless the system has been altered for a specific small piece of motorway, ie a tight bend or sliproad.
The system “looks” at these sensors approx every 4 minutes, if things have changed, then they will adjust / clear themselves. On nights with an empty motorway, they can sometimes be baffled with a slow moving abnormal load.
When the motorway is busy, the ghost queues are what cause the signals, not the signals causing the queues, usually by the speed & brake brigade that need to make as quick progress as possible then have to anchor on for someone in front.
during the day, if they show “Queues” then you can be sure there has, in the last 4 minutes, been a queue there, it may be just in the process of clearing and the signals will then clear.
From time to time we get a call on the radio from a police patrol asking about the signs, only to find they’ve cleared in the time it’s taken for the call.
I think there should be some sort of national announcement to educate people better on these new systems regarding driving to the appropriate speeds etc and penaltys if not adhered to , because It waste a lot of time and causes accidents by people harsh acceleration and braking
Smoggie89:
I think there should be some sort of national announcement to educate people better on these new systems regarding driving to the appropriate speeds etc and penaltys if not adhered to , because It waste a lot of time and causes accidents by people harsh acceleration and braking
Ironic, that, because that’s exactly what it’s designed to avoid. It works well if people obey the posted limits, too.
Smoggie89:
I think there should be some sort of national announcement to educate people better on these new systems regarding driving to the appropriate speeds etc and penaltys if not adhered to , because It waste a lot of time and causes accidents by people harsh acceleration and braking
Ironic, that, because that’s exactly what it’s designed to avoid. It works well if people obey the posted limits, too.
Exactly if there was a national advert telling people if they are caught speeding off and braking they will be dealt with as it is causing more problems than enough, but then again the police don’t have the funds to enforce more patrols lol
The real Biffo:
There is, it’s called the Highway Code. Harsh acceleration and braking is nothing to do with signals or penalties, it’s just downright bad driving.
The problem is that once the test is passed 90% of people don’t ever look at the highway code again, but over time things change and the memory plays tricks. It is an argument for refresher course every few years for everybody, but this isn’t going to happen.
Many years ago we had public information films on all sort of subjects, including many road safety ones. In these days of mass media outlets there must be reasonably cheap ways of informing people, obviously some people won’t other won’t take notice, but for some it will refresh their memory other it will educate.