MK1 & MK11 Atkinsons,a class on their own

Bewick:

240 Gardner:

marky:
It is indeed ex-Davies and if the pictures I’ve seen on Flickr are anything to go by, this should be an exceptional restoration. I’ve only seen one other Atkinson finished better, which is Malcolm Chapman’s Mk1.


Atkinson borderer tbr737r by richfergi.t21, on Flickr

Not to dispute the fact but an R reg Borderer seems a bit implausable,unless someone tucked it away un-reg’d for 18 months,I re-call we bought a couple of brand new Borderers in late '75 after the Sed Atk was in build,we also ran a late '75 Sed Atk.Cracking restoration all the same the quality of which I can only liken to that “new” Steam loco “Tornado” that was built !!Can’t wait to see shots of the Borderer when it’s finished,well done Dennis.

TBR on its side on Tahir about 1977 this motor did alot of trips to the M/E
Ken

With the greatest apologies to Atki fans, but the abiding memories of these things is that they were cold in winter, hot in summer, uncomfortable and noisy. Could it be rose tinted spectacles or an over-abundance of nostalgia that colours our memories? I freely admit that I absolutely LOVED my old 8-wheeler with it’s 150 Gardner, 6-speed DB box & double drive (got me out of trouble in Welsh coal pits) but that was only because, at that time, I had driven nothing better.
Sorry, Bewick, give me five minutes start!

Retired Old ■■■■:
With the greatest apologies to Atki fans, but the abiding memories of these things is that they were cold in winter, hot in summer, uncomfortable and noisy. Could it be rose tinted spectacles or an over-abundance of nostalgia that colours our memories? I freely admit that I absolutely LOVED my old 8-wheeler with it’s 150 Gardner, 6-speed DB box & double drive (got me out of trouble in Welsh coal pits) but that was only because, at that time, I had driven nothing better.
Sorry, Bewick, give me five minutes start!

My thoughts as well.
Yes they were reliable as there was not much to break, but for sure they broke a good number of drivers (knees/back/ears etc etc)
Victorian pile of xcrement IMO, but of course I know that is not a popular sentiment & you know there are some who consider that the MK1 cortina as the best that ford ever made, mind you it odds on that they have never driven the MK4 (i joke a little) :wink:

Who allowed those last to Posters onto the thread ? You wouldn’t enter Westminster Abbey and start swearing,would you? so the same principles apply on the Atki thread surely !!! I’m going to have a word with “Rikki” about this !! Then again it might be me that gets slung off the site so on second thoughts I’ll just put it down to them not knowing,and understanding, a fine British Motor when they read about one eh! Cheers Bewick.

Bewick:
Who allowed those last to Posters onto the thread ? You wouldn’t enter Westminster Abbey and start swearing,would you? so the same principles apply on the Atki thread surely !!! I’m going to have a word with “Rikki” about this !! Then again it might be me that gets slung off the site so on second thoughts I’ll just put it down to them not knowing,and understanding, a fine British Motor when they read about one eh! Cheers Bewick.

Point taken Bewick, but then again you have (had?) a vested interest did you not. :wink:
My comments come from someone who had to endure those bloody things, but for sure the gaffer loved them & of course we all knew why.

Having said that I had many an argument with other drivers who never saw things like myself, they were often the ones who championed the longer working day so they could get back to base, this often bought on a headache as I turned to the wall and banged away. :wink:

atki drivers had it cushy a few weeks on a foden of the same vintage and they would have cried for their atki back .

rigsby:
atki drivers had it cushy a few weeks on a foden of the same vintage and they would have cried for their atki back .

Spoken like a true Gent and Skol-er Dave !! Dennis.

I reckon Bewick’s still rubbing his hands together thinking of that LOVERLEY 9.5 mpg!

rigsby:
atki drivers had it cushy a few weeks on a foden of the same vintage and they would have cried for their atki back .

Evening all, I did many thousands of miles during the 60s in Fodens of all types, all over the UK, and Europe, in rigid and bendy ones. But it was the awfull Micky Mouse S21 that finally saw me decide that my future did not lie in driving Fodens for the rest of my working life! My knees told me so, and they were right!

So I got a job selling Atkinsons! That is where I got the big shock… no superb 12 speed, just Mr Browns “pedestrian” 6speed, or Herr ZFs quick shifting 6! A steering wheel that did not align with the driving position, “domestic electrics”, but a “real” back axle from messers Kirkstall, (forget ,thank goodness ,the delights of the worm)!!

But then of course came the Mk2, and real progress, great pipework, comfy cab, superb instruments, great mirrors, “proper” brakes, a lorry to be proud of. Then , perfection, the Borderer, 10ft 8in wb, Kirkstall, and Mr Fullers 10speed,( all the advantages of a twin stick, but without the complication), and behind a ■■■■■■■ 205, what a “hot rod”.(But we will not mention that "un-engineered Seddon Group, (■■■■■), axle, with its in built lack of oil retention)!

At weekends, and “holidays”, I still drove the familys Fodens, S36, and S39s. Interiors not replicated untill the arrival of Porta Loos! Still superb drivers, but becoming rapidly time expired. The multi axles were always better than the Atkinson offering, (you could at least keep springs on them), but time was running out for both of them!

In the Black Country there was quite a “cameraderie” amongst lorry salesmen, whosoevers product provided our wages! Most of us were ex drivers or mechanics, and we , in the main all got on well. Enough to share information about those operators who were , un-credit worthy, would swop tyres, or more major components on part exchanges, or were just time wasters! No, not a cartel, (but today it would be seen as such), just fellows struggling to make a living in an industry that did not reward its employees well. But the greatest bonus,…we all used to try each others lorries out! And did we have fun doing just that, and the product information we gained was second to none! Not forgetting the firm friendships that were made, and in my own case endure to the present day!

This exchange of information was how I realised that Atkinson were losing ground to the Importers, and I was to move to Volvo. In the 90s I remember discussing this lack of competitiveness with Geoff Greenhalge, then employed by MAN in the UK, but formerly by Atkinson Australia. And in particular why Atkinson had not adopted the Australian tilt cab, even though an example shown at Earls Court had provoked a positive reaction from operators. His view was that the Seddon Atkinson management simply did not see the threat that they could loose market share to the Importers, as a meaningful threat. Is that not sad, and an enditement, amongst so many others , of British managements lack of vision.

Perhaps , as one of my French colleagues once said to me, “why is it in Briain that no one, (refering to senior management, in the Commercial Vehicle industry), speaks to each other, we all have the same problems, and we are all fish swimming in the same sea”

Maybe it is a shame that they never all started out selling lorries in the Black Country, they certainly missed some fun!!! Cheerio for now.

Retired Old ■■■■:
I reckon Bewick’s still rubbing his hands together thinking of that LOVERLEY 9.5 mpg!

Only 9.5■■


DIA 877 Atkinson ‘SIlver Knight’ Mk.2 by Gardner 8LXB, on Flickr

12.2 mpg? I should bl**dy think so- the thing’s running empty for 50% of it’s time.
Part time hauliers!

Retired Old ■■■■:
With the greatest apologies to Atki fans, but the abiding memories of these things is that they were cold in winter, hot in summer, uncomfortable and noisy. Could it be rose tinted spectacles or an over-abundance of nostalgia that colours our memories? I freely admit that I absolutely LOVED my old 8-wheeler with it’s 150 Gardner, 6-speed DB box & double drive (got me out of trouble in Welsh coal pits) but that was only because, at that time, I had driven nothing better.
Sorry, Bewick, give me five minutes start!

Absolutely spot on R.O.F Those Atki’s and any other British made truck in the 60’s and early 70’s for that matter, were far inferior to anything that was made in Scandinavia in the same time period.It’s unbelievable that British manufactures were still making wooden framed cabins covered with fibreglass as late as 1973/4,it’s no wonder they wouldn’t pass the safety laws on the continent.Those antiquated machines may have been great for gaffers,but they certainly were not for the majority of drivers,many of whom are still suffering the after effects of the damage they caused to backs,knees and shoulders etc.Who can blame Saviem for moving from Atkinson to Volvo when he saw the writing on the wall.What was once a great British industry either sold off or swallowed by the competition due to lack of foresight,investment and R&D.This could even be a parallel thread to Gardner engines for the same reason.

Tony Taylor:
Absolutely spot on R.O.F Those Atki’s and any other British made truck in the 60’s and early 70’s for that matter, were far inferior to anything that was made in Scandinavia in the same time period.It’s unbelievable that British manufactures were still making wooden framed cabins covered with fibreglass as late as 1973/4,it’s no wonder they wouldn’t pass the safety laws on the continent.Those antiquated machines may have been great for gaffers,but they certainly were not for the majority of drivers,many of whom are still suffering the after effects of the damage they caused to backs,knees and shoulders etc.Who can blame Saviem for moving from Atkinson to Volvo when he saw the writing on the wall.What was once a great British industry either sold off or swallowed by the competition due to lack of foresight,investment and R&D.This could even be a parallel thread to Gardner engines for the same reason.

Hi Tony. Somewhere, in the bowels of the forum, there is a “What Went Wrong” thread, discussing the demise of lorry manufacturing in GB. It would take a brave man (or a comedian) to resurrect it, given that it was buried by the same nonsense that put the Gardner thread to sleep.

Got t o agree with you Tony,what i found absolutely unbelievable was that before we left Springfields to go on our own the then current management, dogs to a man, despite the previous crew having bought 6 F88s went and bought an M reg brand new Atki that was 1974 it s name painted on the front was The Beast, the only person who would drive it was Geoff Rent a Mouth Stevens, coming down Windy Hill one day the complete gear box fell out of it the gear stick nearly breaking his left leg as it ejected itself. There are obviously a few supporters of these bags of rubbish,forgive them Father for they know not what they do. I n my opinion for what it s worth ERF was a far superior motor. Crow.

Geoff,when those two asset strippers Sweeny & Fletcher were deciding which new trucks to buy for the then ailing Springfield Transport,(a condition brought about by the previous M.D. Derek Ray),they gave me the job of evaluating that new Atkinson.The report I gave them was that it was not fit for purpose compared to the Volvos that we were running at that time.Of course, it made no difference to those two,they went ahead and bought it because it was cheap.As you said,none of the drivers wanted to drive “The Beast” after driving quiet,comfortable modern trucks like the F86s and F88s.No doubt Messers Bewick and Dunbar will take umbrage and point out the virtues of the Atkis from the Bosses perspective,but the fact remains that given the choice, the overwhelming majority of drivers would have preferred to drive a Volvo.

Not half! When I got my F88 290 after years on Atkis, I just couldn’t believe the difference. It was literally like stepping into another world. The fact that, when pushed, it would only return 6.9 mpg didn’t cause me too many sleepless nights as I wasn’t paying for the fuel.
Sorry, Bewick, but if the average driver was given the choice between excellent fuel consumption and superb (for it’s time) comfort, which one do you honestly think he would choose?
Especially as this driver in particular was being paid a percentage of GROSS vehicle earnings and I could squeeze in an extra couple of loads a week with the Volvo!

ROF I see from your location that you re a Macc lad is that Reg Stevens still operating from that area. Dave Ireland who used to drive for us finished up at stevens he dave that is lives near the Ivy Leaf pub Johnny Howards son Ian also drove for them, I can t remember if they had Atkis or not mainly Ivecos I think ,regards Crow.

Hi, Crow,
Not really a Macc lad- just residing here in exile. They sent me up to this God-forsaken hole as a missionary but I failed so badly that they won’t let me go home!
Had two stints at R.H.Stevens, firstly on powder tankers then latterly, until I retired, on a tautliner mainly serving our customers in Manchester & Liverpool.
Don’t know why I’m rambling on about this on the Atki thread, as far as I nknow Stevo’s never operated Atkinsons of any description.
Company finally bit the dust about 18 months ago.

Evening all, I hope that this does not bore you, but today, while`st trying to sow seed, on ground that is far too wet, and endeavouring not to get my new Deere, bogged down, for some reason my mind was half on Atkinsons, and the many memories I have of them, their operators, the “factory” people, and the steep learning curve, and fun I had selling them.

Now in their day, they were a premium lorry, and I really “rated” the marque, and having decided that my future did not lie as a lorry driver, (Fodens were not good for my knees), however exotic the destination! I was excited to land the job as a “junior commercial vehicle salesman”, at 10pounds basic salary per week, plus, 10% commision on retained profit, in the “darkest Black Country”, at Old Hill, near Cradley Heath. I was overjoyed , my goodness, I could earn £1000 a year!!!

As a junior salesman, I would work for the Senior Salesman, who turned out to be the most incredible industry man, Stan Stannett What he had forgotten, I would be lucky to ever learn!!. He had ridden Speedway for Douglas, the TT for HRD, sold REOs, and been a factory tester for Guy Motors. I count myself lucky to have worked for such a fine man, and eventually we gained the nickname of “The Sorcerer, and his Apprentice”, around the Black Country, and my native Shropshire! Even today, in business I rely on things that Stan taught me, a most incredible man.

My first day, I was introduced to Stan, by “our” Director, Ray Roberts, a bust of Churchill on his window cill, and Lemon Tea, at 3o`clock, and the cut down Mk 6 Bentley on the forcourt. Our “sales office”, consisted of a shelf in the corridor, outside the Accounts office, very palatial!

My first question, “where are the Atki`s”, answer, “there are none! Here is the key to the shed down the road, the stocks in there, see if there is anything that you can sell, and report back at 17.30hrs”!!!

It took me 20minutes to open the b… doors!! In the gloom inside, I clearly remember the stock, 2 FF Austin dropsides, a TK petrol chassis cab, a, (without front wheels) D Series Ford, 3 JU BMC vans, (ughhhh), an FJK BMC tractor unit, a Mk 1 Land Rover, and , oh delight, a L1786 Atkinson 8wheeler, (in a rather care worn state). Guess which one I ,( eventually), got out into daylight!

The following day, after numerous fruitless telephone calls, I took that L1786 down the Birmingham New Road to “Teddy Smiths” (E A Smith), dungeon like yard at Parkfields, and returned to Old Hill, with his cheque in my pocket on the Midland Red! I was a Commercial Vehicle Salesman! If only I realised just how much I really had to learn,( do you ever stop learning)■■?

So that is how it started, but the learning was eventfull, the techniques to obtain stock,…elaborate, the dealing …you needed quick wits, and a head for maths, the techniques…imaginative, creative,conceptual!!! Looking back, it was raw, but the best grounding anyone could have.

I could go on, but I do`nt want to bore you, so I shall away to the Bollinger, and remember how to “steal” stock from under our parent garages eyes!! Cheerio for now.