SHYTOT:
20 pages of Atkinson trucks and not a mention of R.Hanson & son Ltd., Wakefield
who in their heyday must have been one of this countries biggest operators of Atkinson trucks
Taken at Halloween last year
Great to see the Hansons, does look good, did they also run one with an Oz cab, was smashed up?. Also no mention Arnolds Gravesend, should be there really, they were running them when everyone else had given up, apart from Craddock Bros. Good Luck Al
SHYTOT:
20 pages of Atkinson trucks and not a mention of R.Hanson & son Ltd., Wakefield
who in their heyday must have been one of this countries biggest operators of Atkinson trucks
Isn’t there a Hanson thread here somewhere? But yes, one of the very largest buyers of Atkis, which is why it was contrived for them to have chassis number 20,000, Alf Sutton having had number 10,000
Bassman:
Hi,MarkyThanks for that , made me chuckle reading it. I’ve seen in days gone by some of his ? motors up and down the road and there’s no doubting his “adaptability”.
He put his stamp on them and the words “Triggers Brush” come to mind.Cheers Bassman
The usual comprehensive reply from Marky 
Just a bit to add to that: there weren’t that many double drive Mk.2 Atkis built (less than 100, as I recall so, by the time you took out the 75-tonners which were too big and unwieldy, and the ones pre-dating April 1973, and which couldn’t be used above 32 tons within C&U Regs, then there weren’t very many to go at.
Aside from RAO 207M, John also converted VTD 495M and STC 262M, both platform-bodied Searchers from the fleet of Chapman Envelopes of Balham & Darwen. Here’s VTD before it gained the 400 Series cab, and even before it grewe a sleeper conversion to its Mk.2 cab:
Meanwhile, GCY 802N started life as a Defender 8-legger, and ended up as a 38 tonne double drive tractor! His preference was always to shorten a chassis, so there were no joins, but he did do some stretches too - Marky has mentioned the Chinese 6 units, and there was a double-drive ex-Riding tractor too.
There was also a 400 Series which started life as a rigid-6 (NSA 181P) but ended up as a 38 tonne double-drive tractor, not only with a Gardner 8, but also John’s own turbocharging conversion!
The Chinese 6 Mk.2 was not a 38-tonner, but a light-ish 32 tonner with cheap road tax
ATKINSON MVD432L KILLINGBECK 11 MAY 88 137 by THE REAL MAD HAGGIS, on Flickr
Hi, 240
You can see that Killingbecks trucks looked very ,em’ workmanlike, but was they reliable or did the drivers get so much per week " spanner time".
Just trying to be a bit tongue in cheek, but were they run 5 days a week and repaired,titivated ,cajoled for 2. I get the impression you would have to be a bit more than a driver to work for John Killingbeck, and I don’t think a laptop would put his trucks right.
Cheers Bassman
Bassman:
Hi, 240
You can see that Killingbecks trucks looked very ,em’ workmanlike, but was they reliable or did the drivers get so much per week " spanner time".
Just trying to be a bit tongue in cheek, but were they run 5 days a week and repaired,titivated ,cajoled for 2. I get the impression you would have to be a bit more than a driver to work for John Killingbeck, and I don’t think a laptop would put his trucks right.Cheers Bassman
I think it might reasonably be said that John built them to work all week. Not all drivers would be up for it, for sure!
John is a skilled engineer, and he certainly knew how to make the motors perform. Only this week, someone elsewhere has described my 6LX-engined Atkinson as having horses that were on steroids, following John’s attention to it, and that didn’t include just chucking a load of fuel into it, as there was no black smoke and the fuel consumption was superb.
The reason the comment was made, is that the chap had a ■■■■■■■ 205-powered Borderer with a Fuller, and it couldn’t live with my 150 Gardner and 6-speed, pulling the same test trailer.
I’ve also had experience of driving an F12, and being left behind by an 8-cylinder Killingbeck Atkinson
Hi, 240
If you know some one who is a skilled tradesman, be it any trade,to watch them at work is an education. John Killingbeck seems to be one of those.
I have driven many Gardner powered trucks but only one or two that belonged to a firm with a master in charge of the tools,and those two trucks were worlds apart from the dozens of fleet motors I’ve driven.
My experience of a Gardner engined fleet motor up to the Turbo versions was that when it started to go well it was due to expire in a cloud of smoke and knocking bearings.
But I’m pleased I drove the two that had been fettled by somebody who could tell one end of a spanner from the other,cos otherwise I might just be a loyal ■■■■■■■ devotee.
Cheers Bassman
Bassman:
Hi, 240
If you know some one who is a skilled tradesman, be it any trade,to watch them at work is an education. John Killingbeck seems to be one of those.
I have driven many Gardner powered trucks but only one or two that belonged to a firm with a master in charge of the tools,and those two trucks were worlds apart from the dozens of fleet motors I’ve driven.
My experience of a Gardner engined fleet motor up to the Turbo versions was that when it started to go well it was due to expire in a cloud of smoke and knocking bearings.
But I’m pleased I drove the two that had been fettled by somebody who could tell one end of a spanner from the other,cos otherwise I might just be a loyal ■■■■■■■ devotee.Cheers Bassman
In an era when vehicles are not only mass- produced, but also built to much closer tolerances than ever before, perhaps we forget what went beore.
I remember having an interesting conversation many years ago with Bowker’s Technical Director - now he is Volvo through-and-through, and quite a forward-thinking engineer in many ways. He was talking about the effect of tolerances, not only on settting up engines, but also on things like chassis and axle alignment. In years gone by, he said, you might find one that’s not entirely straight in the frame, for instance, but had a well set up engine; conversely, another might have a dozy engine but be dead straight. Of course, one that combined all the negative features would be rather unappealing!
On the other hand, he pointed out, one that came together just right, where everything was dead straight and had a well set-up engine, and preferably a driver who knew how to get the best out of it too, could be quite a gem. He was referring specifically to Bowker 47, now preserved, and which pulled like a train. Trouble is, they don’t feel fast, but you can cover the ground quite well. Preston to Southampton, for instance, at a top speed of 46mph, running 25 tons gross, but an average speed of 41 mph, ain’t bad.
Of course, not everyone knew the techniques to get the best out of them, and so many people’s experience of driving these motors was when they were old and tired (the lorries, that is 
), and which would rather prejudice their view of them.
He was also very forthright on using the correct oil - as he put it, “the cheapest sh*t oil you can find”, and never multigrades, and was very vocal on the sheer mechanical efficiency of the engines.
One of the finest Haulier/Engineers I ever had the priviledge of calling a good Pal was the late great Curly Cargill from Hackthorpe near Penrith.I realise he was a loyal ERF operator(not Atky),99% ■■■■■■■ powered,but his fleet maintainence was absolutey fastidious to the point of obsession !He was,without doubt,one of a long gone breed of haulier where his main traffic was Steel and firebrick out of Scotland to the South and Wales,but wherever his motors were tipped he could sort a load out usually close by.The rates he would have run for,over the years,would never have been the best but this never reflected on the standard of maintainence he lavished,singlehanded,on his motors and coilers.Great lad Curly,they definitely broke the mould when he passed on! That is the only thing that I was sad about,his “family” had shunted him off to live a lonely retirement in a woodland lodge near Penrith and the poor old bugger had been dead for a few days before they found him ! ■■■■ it ! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
One of the finest Haulier/Engineers I ever had the priviledge of calling a good Pal was the late great Curly Cargill from Hackthorpe near Penrith.I realise he was a loyal ERF operator(not Atky),99% ■■■■■■■ powered,but his fleet maintainence was absolutey fastidious to the point of obsession !He was,without doubt,one of a long gone breed of haulier where his main traffic was Steel and firebrick out of Scotland to the South and Wales,but wherever his motors were tipped he could sort a load out usually close by.The rates he would have run for,over the years,would never have been the best but this never reflected on the standard of maintainence he lavished,singlehanded,on his motors and coilers.Great lad Curly,they definitely broke the mould when he passed on! That is the only thing that I was sad about,his “family” had shunted him off to live a lonely retirement in a woodland lodge near Penrith and the poor old bugger had been dead for a few days before they found him ! ■■■■ it ! Cheers Dennis.
This a shot of one of Curly’s ERF’s loaded with Scotch telegraph poles,a regular job for him I believe.
Bewick:
One of the finest Haulier/Engineers I ever had the priviledge of calling a good Pal was the late great Curly Cargill from Hackthorpe near Penrith.
I didn’t really know him, Dennis, though I think ‘Old Chris’ knew him better, as we used to sub a bit to him over the years.
Bewick:
This a shot of one of Curly’s ERF’s loaded with Scotch telegraph poles,a regular job for him I believe.
Dennis, you’ve only gone and done it again, haven’t you? 
Now I’ll have to put on some more Atkis to redress the balance!
PTD 990C Atkinson ‘Black Knight’ by 240 Gardner, on Flickr
Australian Atki by 240 Gardner, on Flickr
XTF 235N Atkinson Borderer by 240 Gardner, on Flickr
XTF 235N Atkinson Borderer by 240 Gardner, on Flickr
JLD 708K Atkinson Venturer by 240 Gardner, on Flickr
JRN 38H Atkinson ‘Silver Knight Rear Steer’ Mk.2 TRS3266XB by 240 Gardner, on Flickr
XMS 425 Atkinson T946X by 240 Gardner, on Flickr
Hi, 240
Your comments on a truck being right.This is one of my experiences of a truck being right for the job.
This truck was one of a batch that came fitted with a Gardner 6LXCT/Fuller box and double drive with Diff-locks mounted on Rubber suspension. In this model, IMHO ERF got it right.
Being a night driver for the above company for many years I got to drive this one and it’s sisters many times and they were a great truck to drive.
When the fleet was disposed of ( and it’s drivers ) the contractor I worked for purchased the above truck and I drove it for some time .Before he put it on the road he went through it from end to end including the engine. I don’t know what he did to it but after that it drove like no other Gardner I’d driven before, it went real well ,was reasonably good on fuel, allowing for PTO discharge. He completed it by sending it to Jennings for a full sleeper conversion. When I left him for pastures new I was sorry to lose that truck, it was , and still is the truck that sticks in my mind after all these years.
I know that you and Dennis will say —but it 's not an Atkinson, but when ERF’s set their mind to it they could make some ■■■■ good trucks too .
Cheers Bassman
Bassman:
Hi, 240
You can see that Killingbecks trucks looked very ,em’ workmanlike, but was they reliable or did the drivers get so much per week " spanner time".
Just trying to be a bit tongue in cheek, but were they run 5 days a week and repaired,titivated ,cajoled for 2. I get the impression you would have to be a bit more than a driver to work for John Killingbeck, and I don’t think a laptop would put his trucks right.Cheers Bassman
They worked a full week and were expected to do it too. The only time I ever saw one on the wrong end of a straight bar was coming through Bootle along Southport Rd during the morning rush-hour around 1990. It was an ERF, being pulled (with a loaded trailer from Whitbreads on the back) by TBR - the stretched Borderer wrecker with the forklift on the front. It came round Ford roundabout by the cemetary like the entire outfit was on rails - the 8LXB roaring it’s sphericals off. It was a sight to behold - as was the look on the face of the ERF’s driver!!!
[EDIT] I’ve just remembered another humourous little thing from the auction - we were looking at one of the E-Series ERFs in the line-up and wandered round to the back of the cab. When I looked up, I noticed (underneath the paintwork) the vague outline of a hand on the cab under the back window. As I was pointing it out to the bloke I was stood talking to, a bloke pipes up behind me (whop turned out to be a driver) “Oh aye ■■■■, I put me hand up to steady myself when I was dropping the trailer and left a hand mark of grease on there. When I came in on the Monday, it’d been blown over with a fresh coat - and the hand mark was still there!!!”
Truth is often rarer than fiction…
Reputedly the last Borderer built — although I am told there are several claiming that title:
fryske:
Reputedly the last Borderer built — although I am told there are several claiming that title:
I think that it was Mike Deuchars who corroborated this one from the factory production records, Steve. The photos show that the informal “ceremony” at the end of Mk.2 production certainly involved an 8LXB-engined Borderer.
Bassman:
I know that you and Dennis will say —but it 's not an Atkinson, but when ERF’s set their mind to it they could make some ■■■■ good trucks too .Cheers Bassman
Actually, I’m quite partial to a number of ERFs! I enjoyed playing out in an A Series, but I thought the Atki more comfortable and certainly more roomy inside. I liked the B Series too, although I didn’t like the original floppy accelerator pedal. Come to that, I liked the E Series and the EC too!
Wasn’t the last MkII Atky an 8 wheeler? I seem to recall seeing an internal shot at Walton-le Dale of the last MkII off the line,obviously I stand corrected but I’m not immagining seeing the shot!! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Wasn’t the last MkII Atky an 8 wheeler? I seem to recall seeing an internal shot at Walton-le Dale of the last MkII off the line,obviously I stand corrected but I’m not immagining seeing the shot!! Cheers Dennis.
Yep - hope Chris doens’t mind me linking to this:
Atkinson Defender KVT 604P by 240 Gardner, on Flickr
It is still about - owned by MacCready’s in Stoke - although in need of another restoration
Actually - found it in a post by Marky on another thread:
marky:
I’ve managed to find the pictures I was on about earlier, and here’s the wagon in question - with the 400s following it down the line. The chassis number 29941 can be seen chalked on the bumper.
And here it is again, while in service:
And a more recent pic:
It is indoors now though