Slightly off topic but watching the news yesterday I think it was the shadow business secretary on about Virgin Airlines wanting government bailout when he commented about their treatment of their staff (wanting them to take 8 weeks unpaid leave )and more or less saying ■■■■ you what’s comes round goes round well said that man
Sand Fisher:
Mazzer2:
Sand Fisher:
the nodding donkey:
By using umbrellas or self employment schemes? Now is the time to [zb] off and reap what you showed…[zb] you, you thought it was ok, not paging in, and now you wanto be helped out?? [zb] you.
What a bitter and twisted post…
Perhaps the self employed might get
a. Pay parity
b. PPE paid for
c. Some recompense for no job security/holidays thenPerhaps their bosses could pay for it just like every other company does
Don’t quite see where you are coming from here. At the moment the self employed do pay/take the risk on all of these. Under proposed arrangements they won’t be able to, hence my post.
If you are a legitimate company then all things required to work will be provided by the company you have set up, I don’t see the government suddenly giving my boss money for PPE or holiday pay, when you set up as LTD you knew what was involved if you didn’t then more fool you. The point people are making is that working LTD as a driver you are not a genuine company unless you are providing at least a unit it has been used as a means of paying less tax and even less NI contribution yet now you expect the same benefits as those you have paid in the appropriate amount.
If you work for Uber, Amazon, DPD or other gig economy firms being self employed is not an option but a requirement.
What a silly post. Not all self employed are out to screw the system.
You try doing scooter deliveries for just eat and see how you like it.
adam277:
If you work for Uber, Amazon, DPD or other gig economy firms being self employed is not an option but a requirement.What a silly post. Not all self employed are out to screw the system.
You try doing scooter deliveries for just eat and see how you like it.
That is different to drivers who set out to go LTD when the option was there to go PAYE but they wanted the extra £1 an hour, the gig economy is one of the biggest cons going yet say so and you’re seen as a luddite it’s sole purpose is to make CEO’s obscenely rich while shafting workers.
Seems like the green eyed monster has been overcome by red mist
Uncleskid:
Slightly off topic but watching the news yesterday I think it was the shadow business secretary on about Virgin Airlines wanting government bailout when he commented about their treatment of their staff (wanting them to take 8 weeks unpaid leave )and more or less saying [zb] you what’s comes round goes round well said that man
Didn’t some MP say they’d bail them out when their billionaire owner is down to his last billion £?
Mazzer2:
If you are a legitimate company then all things required to work will be provided by the company you have set up, I don’t see the government suddenly giving my boss money for PPE or holiday pay, when you set up as LTD you knew what was involved if you didn’t then more fool you. The point people are making is that working LTD as a driver you are not a genuine company unless you are providing at least a unit it has been used as a means of paying less tax and even less NI contribution yet now you expect the same benefits as those you have paid in the appropriate amount.
Yes that is what we do. But under the proposed IR35 changes agency drivers can’t do that because the agency/client wont provide it. If agency paye drivers can offset the whole cost in their tax code that is fine, otherwise they are discriminated against. Did you not know that?
If you want everyone to pay the same tax they must have the same benefits and that doesn’t happen, hence my post.
Not sure if we are agreeing with each other here or not. hey ho.
Oh and as for this unit tosh you an RHA/FTA spokesperson? Don’t see many private doctors having their own hospitals?
Sand Fisher:
Yes that is what we do. But under the proposed IR35 changes agency drivers can’t do that because the agency/client wont provide it. If agency paye drivers can offset the whole cost in their tax code that is fine, otherwise they are discriminated against. Did you not know that?
My agency supply all their PAYE drivers with PPE as well as t-shirts and work trousers. We can go into the office at any time if we need to get gloves, hi-viz, new boots, new trousers or t-shirts.
If you want everyone to pay the same tax they must have the same benefits
Why?
Don’t see many private doctors having their own hospitals?
Were you aware that all GPs are in fact private surgeries who contract to the NHS?
It is possible…
To continue paying your NI contributions whilst you are Ltd status etc. How many do and how many don’t is anyone’s guess.
I find it astonishing that Mr Richard Branson can ask his staff to take 8 weeks unpaid holiday when, his personal fortune is estimated at over 4.1 billion sterling.
I also find that multi billion pound companies don’t have enough capital to last 3 months astonishing too.
Sand Fisher:
Mazzer2:
If you are a legitimate company then all things required to work will be provided by the company you have set up, I don’t see the government suddenly giving my boss money for PPE or holiday pay, when you set up as LTD you knew what was involved if you didn’t then more fool you. The point people are making is that working LTD as a driver you are not a genuine company unless you are providing at least a unit it has been used as a means of paying less tax and even less NI contribution yet now you expect the same benefits as those you have paid in the appropriate amount.Yes that is what we do. But under the proposed IR35 changes agency drivers can’t do that because the agency/client wont provide it. If agency paye drivers can offset the whole cost in their tax code that is fine, otherwise they are discriminated against. Did you not know that?
If you want everyone to pay the same tax they must have the same benefits and that doesn’t happen, hence my post.
Not sure if we are agreeing with each other here or not. hey ho.
Oh and as for this unit tosh you an RHA/FTA spokesperson? Don’t see many private doctors having their own hospitals?
If it is such a good scheme then why is being ended SIMPLE because people are abusing it and not paying what they should.
So on the subject of minimising the payment of tax, will parliament now be scrapping many tax efficient products such as ISA’s and labeling all users of ISA’s as tax avoiders? Because sticking to the letter of the definition of tax avoidance then that’s what all of us are that have ISA’s 
. Any way of legally reducing ones tax liability is deemed to be tax avoidance.
robbo99.:
So on the subject of minimising the payment of tax, will parliament now be scrapping many tax efficient products such as ISA’s and labeling all users of ISA’s as tax avoiders? Because sticking to the letter of the definition of tax avoidance then that’s what all of us are that have ISA’s
ISA’s are used as an incentive to save and thereby possibly better yourself.
How many going onto LTD weighed up the pros and cons and in doing so took out insurance for when things go ■■■■ up, or just went extra £x amount per hour and less tax I’ll have some of that with no thought to the consequences, and it’s not just drivers plenty of BBC staff been caught out to
Not really fussed if people spend every penny of their income and then some, that’s their problem, PAYE or Ltd. If people budgeted for lean times then there would be no probs.
The point I was making is that tax avoidance (legally reducing ones tax liability) is a very very subjective topic, the government put it about how morally wrong it is yet have many many ways of encouraging tax avoidance.
robbo99.:
So on the subject of minimising the payment of tax, will parliament now be scrapping many tax efficient products such as ISA’s and labeling all users of ISA’s as tax avoiders? Because sticking to the letter of the definition of tax avoidance then that’s what all of us are that have ISA’s
That’s totally different (as I hope you are aware). ISA’s are a saving scheme, and during the time your money is locked in the ISA, it is used to invest, helping others, and make more money. The tax break is an incentive.
Just like voluntairy payments into your pension are tax free, it’s an incentive to reward you to save. Again, money in pension savings is used for investments.
Pretending to be self employed, to be paid a quid an hour more, and to minimize your tax and NI contributions, is benefiting none but the “self employee”.
And, having myself once been properly self employed, I have obviously no problem with genuine self employed people. The solution is simple. Pay benefits determined by the tax returns for previous years.
Mazzer2:
Sand Fisher:
Mazzer2:
If you are a legitimate company then all things required to work will be provided by the company you have set up, I don’t see the government suddenly giving my boss money for PPE or holiday pay, when you set up as LTD you knew what was involved if you didn’t then more fool you. The point people are making is that working LTD as a driver you are not a genuine company unless you are providing at least a unit it has been used as a means of paying less tax and even less NI contribution yet now you expect the same benefits as those you have paid in the appropriate amount.Yes that is what we do. But under the proposed IR35 changes agency drivers can’t do that because the agency/client wont provide it. If agency paye drivers can offset the whole cost in their tax code that is fine, otherwise they are discriminated against. Did you not know that?
If you want everyone to pay the same tax they must have the same benefits and that doesn’t happen, hence my post.
Not sure if we are agreeing with each other here or not. hey ho.
Oh and as for this unit tosh you an RHA/FTA spokesperson? Don’t see many private doctors having their own hospitals?
If it is such a good scheme then why is being ended SIMPLE because people are abusing it and not paying what they should.
I don’t mind that. I do mind the discrimination.
Sand Fisher:
Mazzer2:
Sand Fisher:
Mazzer2:
If you are a legitimate company then all things required to work will be provided by the company you have set up, I don’t see the government suddenly giving my boss money for PPE or holiday pay, when you set up as LTD you knew what was involved if you didn’t then more fool you. The point people are making is that working LTD as a driver you are not a genuine company unless you are providing at least a unit it has been used as a means of paying less tax and even less NI contribution yet now you expect the same benefits as those you have paid in the appropriate amount.Yes that is what we do. But under the proposed IR35 changes agency drivers can’t do that because the agency/client wont provide it. If agency paye drivers can offset the whole cost in their tax code that is fine, otherwise they are discriminated against. Did you not know that?
If you want everyone to pay the same tax they must have the same benefits and that doesn’t happen, hence my post.
Not sure if we are agreeing with each other here or not. hey ho.
Oh and as for this unit tosh you an RHA/FTA spokesperson? Don’t see many private doctors having their own hospitals?
If it is such a good scheme then why is being ended SIMPLE because people are abusing it and not paying what they should.
I don’t mind that. I do mind the discrimination.
I don’t understand where the discrimination is if you are an independent company offering your services then surely it is down to you to turn up fully equipped to do the job, when I employ a plumber I don’t provide him with anything, well maybe a cup of tea if he’s doing a good job. Not having a pop but I don’t see where you’re coming from you are touting your services as a business not an employee
Mazzer2:
Sand Fisher:
Mazzer2:
Sand Fisher:
Yes that is what we do. But under the proposed IR35 changes agency drivers can’t do that because the agency/client wont provide it. If agency paye drivers can offset the whole cost in their tax code that is fine, otherwise they are discriminated against. Did you not know that?If you want everyone to pay the same tax they must have the same benefits and that doesn’t happen, hence my post.
Not sure if we are agreeing with each other here or not. hey ho.
Oh and as for this unit tosh you an RHA/FTA spokesperson? Don’t see many private doctors having their own hospitals?
If it is such a good scheme then why is being ended SIMPLE because people are abusing it and not paying what they should.
I don’t mind that. I do mind the discrimination.
I don’t understand where the discrimination is if you are an independent company offering your services then surely it is down to you to turn up fully equipped to do the job, when I employ a plumber I don’t provide him with anything, well maybe a cup of tea if he’s doing a good job. Not having a pop but I don’t see where you’re coming from you are touting your services as a business not an employee
Hi mazzer2. No we are on the same page. We are in agreement.
What I was referring to was under the Govt proposals now deferred 12 months agency drivers that were paye would not necessarily get their PPE, nor in the short term get pay parity. Hence the discrimination. If the Govt want to tax people the same then treat them the same. Furthermore where do you compensate for the risk element?
FWIW I take all my own gear et al (jokes about night out for a day job) - all I need now is a Hazmat suit, and gerron withit, like most folk.
Sand Fisher:
Hi mazzer2. No we are on the same page. We are in agreement.What I was referring to was under the Govt proposals now deferred 12 months agency drivers that were paye would not necessarily get their PPE, nor in the short term get pay parity. Hence the discrimination. If the Govt want to tax people the same then treat them the same. Furthermore where do you compensate for the risk element?
FWIW I take all my own gear et al (jokes about night out for a day job) - all I need now is a Hazmat suit, and gerron withit, like most folk.
Fair one 
the nodding donkey:
robbo99.:
So on the subject of minimising the payment of tax, will parliament now be scrapping many tax efficient products such as ISA’s and labeling all users of ISA’s as tax avoiders? Because sticking to the letter of the definition of tax avoidance then that’s what all of us are that have ISA’sThat’s totally different (as I hope you are aware). ISA’s are a saving scheme, and during the time your money is locked in the ISA, it is used to invest, helping others, and make more money. The tax break is an incentive.
Just like voluntairy payments into your pension are tax free, it’s an incentive to reward you to save. Again, money in pension savings is used for investments.Pretending to be self employed, to be paid a quid an hour more, and to minimize your tax and NI contributions, is benefiting none but the “self employee”.
And, having myself once been properly self employed, I have obviously no problem with genuine self employed people. The solution is simple. Pay benefits determined by the tax returns for previous years.
And I hope that you are aware that avoiding paying tax whether via an incentive or not comes under the definition of tax avoidance (legally reducing ones tax liability) I would know I’ve been avoiding paying tax on savings since 1990 with a TESSA then a PEP now an ISA. I think the word subjective applies perfectly to your original post.
Funny enough my self employed Facebook friends who are moaning loudest are the ones who always boast about how little they pay in tax. Most are also desperately looking for work this week too