Merc Axor handling question

How come some of us are not even aware of braking ‘‘issues’’ with Axor, suppose if you drive on the brakes then you need them to be overbraked, looking at the front wheels of most fleet lorries you could shovel the brake dust off such is the evidence of poor driving.

And what steering issues for crying out loud, are the complainants comparing like with like, or does the lack of kudos (Jesus wept) of the model affect people’s perceptions so much.

Anyone whose driven Mercedes cars of older design won’t just jump in one and get the best from them, but once accustomed (it takes a long time to perfect but the rewards are superb) just try and keep up with one when its in the hands of a competent driver whatever the terrain…i love it when i see the phrase old mans car writ large, kids…little do they know.

Axor or any proper lorry is the same, you have to learn how to get the best from them, drive them like an old school lorry making the best use of the excellent low torque (pull strongly from 800rpm) and you have a very competent and economic working lorry on your hands.

I have driven a lot of B-AXOR’s in my time, I cant say I have ever had to wrestle one round a corner in my life?

Maybe my advanced driving styles come into play on this one (Braking before the corner and power out of it), but even fully freighted I find this style fine, I have never ran off a road and dont see how anyone else could in one of these units.

The braking characteristics are totally different in a AXOR compared to any other truck (You need to press the middle pedal a bit harder to slow down) but again, this is something that is learned after the first time you slow down.

I would hardly call any the slacker brakes a safety issue at all, and they most definitely do stop when you need them to.

Ive recently driven a few and they were not that good, the brake pedals were rock hard, the mirrors are awfull as they seem quite thin, they were not electric mirrors and my passenger one kept moving when i was driving so i ended up having to adjust it back when i stopped and when you are reversing back under a trailer looking into the mirrors it looks like you are at an angle so i was all over the place trying to correct myself :open_mouth: and everytime i raised the trailing axle it said my steering needed adjusted :confused:

I drove an older Actros last night and it was better but still not great as the wipers had a mind of their own and i had to wait until it did all its checks before it started !! :imp: that was annoying especially when i had a queue of trucks behind me at the security gates !! :stuck_out_tongue:

Juddian:
How come some of us are not even aware of braking ‘‘issues’’ with Axor, suppose if you drive on the brakes then you need them to be overbraked, looking at the front wheels of most fleet lorries you could shovel the brake dust off such is the evidence of poor driving.

And what steering issues for crying out loud, are the complainants comparing like with like, or does the lack of kudos (Jesus wept) of the model affect people’s perceptions so much.

Anyone whose driven Mercedes cars of older design won’t just jump in one and get the best from them, but once accustomed (it takes a long time to perfect but the rewards are superb) just try and keep up with one when its in the hands of a competent driver whatever the terrain…i love it when i see the phrase old mans car writ large, kids…little do they know.

Axor or any proper lorry is the same, you have to learn how to get the best from them, drive them like an old school lorry making the best use of the excellent low torque (pull strongly from 800rpm) and you have a very competent and economic working lorry on your hands.

This post and the one you wrote previously are spot on for me :sunglasses:
As for trying to explain further…We both know the horse is dead. :wink:

att:

Juddian:

As for trying to explain further…We both know the horse is dead. :wink:

:laughing: :sunglasses: :smiling_imp:

The Axor is designed as a fleet truck. Big companies want trucks that are reliable and cheap to buy and run. The Axor fits the bill perfectly. It was designed without all these fancy driver aids on purpose to keep costs low. It is sold as a basic, no frills but functional truck and that’s just what it is.
I like driving Axors for the reason there isn’t many driving aids on them. Its a kind of seat of your pants drive. The feedback the truck gives you back reflects your driving style. Doesn’t fill you with false sense of security like most other trucks do.
I’ve never experienced any other trucks that can lug as low as the Axor can either.
My only real gripe with them was the manual boxes on the early Axors. The could be a right pain in the arse. Tight gear changes and getting reverse usually requires both hand on the gearstick.:smiling_imp:

Personally I think the three axle Axor is a dangerous truck, and simply saying it’s the driver that’s the problem, doesn’t make this shoddily engineered, badly equipped, accountants dream of a truck, any safer.

First of all, as one poster has already stated, the two axle version is a very adequate truck. That’s because this, short distance, inter-modal and distribution, fleet tractor unit, was developed in Germany for exactly that. (Merc were obviously trying to do with truck units, what they did for vans with the Sprinter, which was to develop a cheap, modular fleet vehicle for world use.)

Unfortunately the UK market, which was always going to be key to the financial success of the truck, but is still small in the context of a world market, virtually alone in Europe, has this strange requirement for a third axle. And all my comments regarding Axors refer primarily to the three axle version.

To accommodate that legal and market essential, Mercedes decided to do the cheapest engineering bodge they could get away with. After all, their competition are all able to build adequate competitive versions of their own vehicles which don’t have the handling problems the Axor has. Check the Volvo FM, the MAN TGS, the Scania R series. They all have the same basic spec, yet only the Axor has had so much criticism for it’s handling that it’s little wonder that Merc have effectively killed the Axor, and introduced the Arocs.

Yes, there’s a button on the dash allowing you to lift the mid axle, but that only works up to 20mph. And why can’t this high torque, modern distribution workhorse, get it’s power down to the tarmac without spinning it’s wheels in the wet? That alone indicates an engineering problem that hasn’t been addressed. And that’s without mentioning the damaging efficiency and environmental aspects involved.

Oh yeah, according to some posts on this thread, “…it’s the driver behind the wheel that’s to blame!” If that was the case, and quite frankly, it’s absurd to suggest it is, then those same drivers would no doubt also have problems with other units they drive. In fact, those other competitive units from MAN, Volvo and Scania mentioned above.

You’ll also get a shocked look from the Merc salesman when you tell him the truck is [zb] dangerous, but the fact is, it’s a different story when you’re driving the bob-tail Axor to the transport yard to demo it, and driving that demo unit with a fully loaded trailer, up a twisting and icy little A or B road. “Oh yeah, but the Axor’s designed to be used on trunking routes…” they say. But of course they don’t say that to the accountants that purchase that Axor fleet. Or indeed, sold the last few Axors sitting in fields, at give away prices, to people like Dawson Rentals! (Who then cream off mega short term rental fees for a couple of years, before offloading the remains to places like Iran and Egypt, for more than they paid new.

Mercedes themselves have suggested it’s the driver’s fault. From their point of view, they’re happy to say, “It can’t be our truck for two key reasons. One; we’re Mercedes Benz, and our engineering credentials are unimpeachable, and two; look at the thousands of Axors we’ve sold! If there was a problem, we wouldn’t have sold so many.”

The correct answer to the first point is that Mercedes Benz, whilst rightly having engineering talent and resources to give away, have also made some major engineering ■■■■-ups in their time. In this instance, the engineers were briefed to make a third world truck for as little money as possible - and they’ve done a brilliant job. For the third world. Remember the A-Class car that was released, but fell over as soon as it saw a corner. The manufacturers (MB) had to basically stop all production and re-engineer the entire suspension system, before allowing it to be sold to the public.

The second point is slightly different. Yes, they’ve probably sold thousands of Axors in the UK market, and the reason they’ve done that is purely because of the pounds, shillings and pence. They’ve quite simply made a truck unit that is cheaper than the competition (MAN, Volvo & Scania… not to mention Renault, Iveco and every other truck maker under the sun) and they’ve sold it on the basis that; “…you can have a Mercedes, for the cheapest price possible.” And, “…we’ll beat any price you get, and you’ll still get a Mercedes…”

On top of that, I’d love to know how many of those thousands of Axors were purchased by accountants who wouldn’t know the first thing about driving a truck, and how many were bought by drivers, or at least transport managers, that had knowledge of what truck driving in the UK environment actually requires. And believe it or not, there are even transport managers out there that have no idea how to drive a truck, but have got the job because they’ve done the transport manager, home study course…

Now, I can already hear the Axor fan boys out there saying I’ve got no idea. That may be true, but I will say this. Before I drove an Axor, I was a big, big fan of Mercedes Benz trucks. And let’s face it, the Actros is a competent tractor unit, despite it’s dodgy start in the market all those years ago.

I’ve driven all of the competitive vehicles in the Axor segment, and the three axle Axor, in my opinion, shouldn’t even be on the road it’s so shoddily engineered. And no, I’m not some new boy either. I’ve been driving since about 1974, and I’ve driven a very wide range of vehicles on three very different continents. I’ve driven Kenworths with ■■■■■■■ and Detroit Diesel engines and Fuller gearboxes, and I’ve even driven the golden old time Merc 1418… Now that was a bullet proof third world truck unit. Yes I’ve used tarps on flat bed loads (and [zb] the dream, I’m pleased I don’t still have to do them. Likewise Fuller gearboxes.)

I’ve worked for Shell in Germany, delivering fuel and using the Axor’s ancestors, the 1932, and 2232, so I’m sorry if you don’t agree with me, but I still think and always will think, the three axle Axor is the most dangerous truck on the roads in Britain today.

Deffo a problem. Constantly correcting the steering on straight roads. And last time I got out of one I genuinely couldn’t have gone one more mile in it. I was shook all over all day and my back had had it.
To suggest it’s a driver problem is daft. As a driver who passed his class one 38 yrs ago and a long term agency driver, using different trucks all the time, I’m in as good a position to pass a reasoned judgement as anyone.
These things are just awful…when compared to other similar trucks. The fact that so many people all have the same issues tell me I’m not wrong.

shugg:
During what is a very busy period for the company / industry I work for my operator has hired some 3 axle Axor tractor units , despite some very negative reports on this site myself and most of the other drivers liked them very much , !!! ,the only problem I found was you had constantly to correct the steering , is this a common problem ? .

Hi Shugg. The company I work for has an all Merc fleet from sprinter vans, 7.5t, 18t and artics. All our artics are Axors and it would appear that, what you experienced is an all too common problem with these trucks. Following the tram-lines, the slightest bump in the road and the Merc Axor is going everywhere except where you want. All our Axors are exactly the same so it must be a common with these otherwise good trucks, if you don’t count the gearbox. Westway Cruiser.

trubster:
Maybe my advanced driving styles come into play on this one

Remind us how long you have been driving artics again please? :smiling_imp: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing:

Truckbling:

trubster:
Maybe my advanced driving styles come into play on this one

Remind us how long you have been driving artics again please? :smiling_imp: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing:

Happy new year to you too.

Nothing to do with driving artics. I took the IAM Skills for life course followed by a test with am ex police instructor. The principles are the same.

I really struggle to see how anyone can say that a truck is dangerous. I have never experienced anything like the complaints expressed on here. You do know you have to hold the steering wheel when moving? Right?

All modern mercs seem to have an issue when setting off on a slightly damp road with a slight gradient, they sit there bouncing like mad until you slap the air dump in the hope of getting a little traction.
Try making a tight left turn when fully freighted, the unit just goes straight on.
The brakes leave a lot to be desired and unlike other lorries you really have to apply pressure to the brake to get the thing to even contemplate stopping.
The steering wheel has always been off centre…why?
As for underpowered issues, well, that’s mercs for you.

I think it is more your lack of experience that means you know no better Trubster. You accept the merc as it is because it is all you know.

Surely the slipping in the wet comes under…

DRIVE TO THE ROAD CONDITIONS.

If you are setting off on a slippery road with a lot of weight on… dump the air. Simples.

I do really narrow U turns in the yard fully freighted. Click it into 2 manual and no issues whatsoever.

Underpowered? Yeah sure it’s not a 730 BUT it pulls better that the older actross with the machine gun gear change crap.

As for not knowing better. That’s false and you know it. Like most drivers I have driven most of the truck makes and models on the road (all but hino). Yes the new actross drives a lot better than the axors BUT I still find the axor is a safe unit, just adjust the driving to suit the vehicle (brake harder etc.)

I am sorry but being spanked by a police officer does not make you a better driver. Why do people think just because they are coppers that they are the elite when it comes down to driving?
All these, training to make me a better driver, courses are there for are to raise money, a little like the dcpc, its just pointless waffle about nothing. Anybody can talk about driving but how many are actually good at it? and I mean what you personally would call good?
These muppets put on a hi vis vest, hold a clipboard and somehow that makes them gods who know everything. The problem is that the trainees actually listen to and believe everything that spurts out of their so called “kwalified” mouths when in actual fact most of it is pure bile and pointless incorrect information.

Believe me, the merc is the only unit that I have to even contemplate dumping the air on when setting off on a slight hill, all the other models seem to have mastered the weight to drive ratio perfectly. Yes you do need to adapt your driving style to get these things to perform correctly but alas you shouldn’t need to worry about these things, it should have all been thought out at design stage.

Anyway Trubster, this is going off topic. I need to know what these advanced driving styles are and when you intend to demonstrate them because up to press you wreck everything.

MAN’s fitted with satans gearbox also need the air dumping to get traction unless the road is bone dry, and yes i do know the axle weights are correct, i use an axle weigher at least once a week and know exactly how to load the tank to get perfect weight distribution.

You have to laugh at these wafflers, spout it large as if they know everything and can bully or blind others with their tough words.

Bloody mechanical experts in their own mind who can’t figure out that a fixed mid lift, especially a full sized bugger wants to go straight on so you adjust driving accordinglyusing the tools the things fitted with such as air dumps. ever driven a double drive 6 wheeler? that bugger definately wants to go straight on.
A twin steer is a different kettle of fish entirely and sight heavier to boot, but then we aint comparing apples and oranges here.

Axor’s an old school lorry, its driven by feel, by the seat of your pants, its not stuffed with traction crap designed to make steering wheel attendants think they have things under control.
Put an Ax in 6" of snow and it’ll laugh at it as it pulls out, put a MAN in the same situation and you may as well walk.

As for underpowered, sod me an manual Axor’ll be three streets away by the time a typical Scania has muddled its change between 1st and 3rd.

To be fair, the auto box in Axor is just much rubbish as all the others, Volvo excepted, but then what is a drivers lorry doing with an auto box anyway, incongruous.

Quinny:
For a fleet truck, they’re not bad, especially as Mercedes seem to be loading them with all the toys the Actros had now it’s coming/come to the end of it’s production life. (Air con, etc.)

I do find that the brakes are dire in them though when all up at 44t, but that aside, I wouldn’t turn one down, and when they have the full air kit on, (Roof and sides.) they don’t look bad. Seats a bit hard for me, but that’s about all I can really gripe about them on the inside.

If only Mercedes would have thought of a better place to put the air filter canister. The number of Actros and Axors I’ve seen with them damaged, is unbelievable.

Ken.

That airbox location doesn’t seem so bad when there are bad floods.

I never found much else to recommend the Axor though.

trubster:
I have driven a lot of B-AXOR’s in my time, I cant say I have ever had to wrestle one round a corner in my life?

Maybe my advanced driving styles come into play on this one (Braking before the corner and power out of it), but even fully freighted I find this style fine, I have never ran off a road and dont see how anyone else could in one of these units.

The braking characteristics are totally different in a AXOR compared to any other truck (You need to press the middle pedal a bit harder to slow down) but again, this is something that is learned after the first time you slow down.

I would hardly call any the slacker brakes a safety issue at all, and they most definitely do stop when you need them to.

ive read this and your later posts in this thread and all i can say is, what a grade A nob you are. correct me if im wrong but from what i remember youve only had your truck licence for 2 minutes and the ink isnt even dry yet but here you are preaching to people that have done more miles in reverse than youve done forwards how to drive certain wagons. who do you think you are eh, some self-appointed driving god? come back to us when youve got some real world trucking experience as trunking box trailers up and down the m1 for west transport doesnt count, fella.

Truckbling:
Yes you do need to adapt your driving style to get these things to perform correctly but alas you shouldn’t need to worry about these things, it should have all been thought out at design stage.

Spot on Truckbling. The point is, you shouldn’t need/be forced to adapt your driving style by such a dramatic amount, to compensate for any vehicle’s engineering deficits. Of course, any reasonably experienced truck driver, should be able to keep an Axor on the road, and be able to adapt their driving style to avoid some of the obvious Axor problems. The point is, you shouldn’t need to. As a professional driver, you should be able to expect a vehicle, particularly from Mercedes Benz, that meets the absolute pinnacle of current engineering practice, so you can drive safely and securely to your destination, without worrying if your driving style has been adapted enough, or if maybe the vehicle has some other unknown, “old school” quirk that makes it unpredictably at best, and a serious road traffic danger at worst. Patently, according to many if not most of the posts on here, the Axor does not meet that basic criteria.

Juddian:
Axor’s an old school lorry, its driven by feel, by the seat of your pants, its not stuffed with traction crap designed to make steering wheel attendants think they have things under control.

Then it needs a warning sign inside every Axor that warns current school drivers, that it’s an “old school” lorry, and needs a vastly different driving technique that rightly, died out back in pre-historic times.

The point is, that in today’s totally different transport environment, simply saying it’s an old school lorry, is a totally [zb] argument to justify a badly engineered truck. Truck engineering has moved on to make it less tiring, less stressful and less hard work, because too much of all of those, whilst making you feel like some sort of Wild West hero in your own imagination Juddian, is dangerous to the general public in a much more high pressure, high volume traffic and transport environment now, than even 15 years ago. There are good reasons why there are no Fodens and Atkinsons being built these days, and why the Fuller gearbox is now virtually unused in this country except in specialist roles.

Juddian:
To be fair, the auto box in Axor is just much rubbish as all the others, Volvo excepted, but then what is a drivers lorry doing with an auto box anyway, incongruous.

You keep laughing mate, but this comment just proves the point. There’s no such thing as a “driver’s lorry.” And there never was. Trucks have always been designed to be the cheapest, most reliable, engineering solution to do the job required. The driver has only recently been seriously considered and included in the equation, since it became blindingly obvious that “old school” drivers were considerably more dangerous than ones who had enjoyed a more comfortable, more relaxed, less stressed and more easily controlled driving workplace. In fact, it was probably Merc (along with Volvo) who pioneered much of that research.

It’s also the reason you see less flat loads now. Less sheeting and roping, as freight has been effectively containerised and carried in curtain-siders. The entire industry has evolved beyond “old school” because it was simply not efficient. And in-efficient transport systems can’t/won’t survive in the modern world. And unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, dinosaur, old school drivers (and bear in mind I’m over 60 myself) who still hark back to the days-of-yesteryear as some sort of romantic ideal, will join them. It’s called evolution.

If, as you say Juddian, the Axor is an “old school” lorry, then it deserves to be back in the old school, and not on today’s modern roads. Simple.

:open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

East Anglian Trucker, you seem to vastly over-think the relatively simple act of driving a lorry from Warehouse A to Shop B. “Expect a vehicle… which meets the absolute pinnacle of current engineering practice…” WTF.

I despair of the haulage industry in general at times.