The-Snowman:
[ He’s someone with a very big “my point of view or you’re wrong” mentality.
I’ve known people with Rjan’s misguided views going back decades including myself at one time.He genuinely believes in what he’s saying and equal opposing argument not walking away is what it takes to defeat such Socialist indoctrinated bs.
Evil8Beezle:
Freight Dog:
This is your response to my post challenging UK Islamic inaction? This is it? Anyone else care to comment?I’ll comment!
Don’t bother debating with someone who won’t address your points, either ignoring them or says they are not relevant.
I tried comparing cultural differences with Rjan saying that we breed pigs to eat, so we can’t judge just places like North Korea where it’s culturally acceptable to eat dogs. He comes back and tries to introduce cannibalism and eating babies into the equation!I ended the discussion there…
I think I would have too 
. Cannibalism and eating babies?? Bloody hell ha
Carryfast:
He genuinely believes in what he’s saying and equal opposing argument not walking away is what it takes to defeat such Socialist indoctrinated bs.
There comes a time though when you need to accept its pointless.
Theres nothing wrong with believing in your views 100% but he ignores counter arguments and keep going round in circles with stuff which is irrelevant just because it fits his agenda better. I found that out in the “foreign workers” thread and I could tell this one would go much the same way. He only wants to hear what he wants to hear and anything else is dismissed as “irrelevant”
The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
He genuinely believes in what he’s saying and equal opposing argument not walking away is what it takes to defeat such Socialist indoctrinated bs.There comes a time though when you need to accept its pointless.
Theres nothing wrong with believing in your views 100% but he ignores counter arguments and keep going round in circles with stuff which is irrelevant just because it fits his agenda better. I found that out in the “foreign workers” thread and I could tell this one would go much the same way. He only wants to hear what he wants to hear and anything else is dismissed as “irrelevant”
I didn’t expect it to go any other way. I didn’t expect to change his opinion. I’ve got what I wanted, to squeeze the lemon enough to get away from his squirrelly arguments and channel a direct response on a particular point with our home security. I’ve squeezed the lemon 
The-Snowman:
Carryfast:
He genuinely believes in what he’s saying and equal opposing argument not walking away is what it takes to defeat such Socialist indoctrinated bs.There comes a time though when you need to accept its pointless.
Theres nothing wrong with believing in your views 100% but he ignores counter arguments and keep going round in circles with stuff which is irrelevant just because it fits his agenda better. I found that out in the “foreign workers” thread and I could tell this one would go much the same way. He only wants to hear what he wants to hear and anything else is dismissed as “irrelevant”
To be fair that’s always gone with the territory in the case of a good old fashioned argument against the Socialist mindset and cause.
While ironically I’ve had that complaint thrown at me a few times on the basis that the only way to beat them is join them in that regard. 
Carryfast:
I’ve known people with Rjan’s misguided views going back decades including myself at one time.
Just the one time, you sure about that ■■?
raymundo:
Carryfast:
I’ve known people with Rjan’s misguided views going back decades including myself at one time.Just the one time, you sure about that ■■?
Careful theres a theory that’s RikkiUk you maybe well be talking to, apparantly . He must be having a bad day when he logs in as old curryfart
Nah, Because RikkiUK has I believe a full time job so how would he find the time to be the internets biggest googler and all time font of all knowledge ? 
raymundo:
Nah, Because RikkiUK has I believe a full time job so how would he find the time to be the internets biggest googler and all time font of all knowledge ?
Maybe he’s omnipotent. Like God, can be anywhere at the same time. If that’s the case, then God defiantly doesn’t like socialists
Carryfast:
I wouldn’t call Wahabbi Sharia or Iranian revolutionary law enforced by the sword etc an ‘insignificant cultural difference’.
But we don’t have “law enforced by the sword”! Last time I came across anyone who looked vaguely Muslim, he was a wide boy with a Bradford accent. On another occasion, I did actually have someone arguing for an eye for an eye for criminals - although no more forcefully than the average working class man does.
I honestly wonder whether most people who harp on about cultural differences have ever had a conversation with the people they say differ so massively that we must declare war on them immediately!
Another thing, if we want to advance liberal values in deprived communities and stop a regression into black and white authoritarian values, we must ameliorate their deprivation. And with minority communities, we must bring people together, and we must be tolerant and give people time to change.
We can also clamp down, for example, when first-generation immigrants turn to murder over violation of traditional values, but we must recognise that such acts are those of rare extremists, and that our criminal law already has a full answer to it, and that it does not even begin to represent the everyday behaviour of people in those communities.
Rjan:
Another thing, if we want to advance liberal values in deprived communities and stop a regression into black and white authoritarian values, we must ameliorate their deprivation. And with minority communities, we must bring people together, and we must be tolerant and give people time to change.
What bloody planet do you live on? 
We bend over backwards to ameliorate immigrants, and IF THEY CHOOSE to integrate, they are welcomed. You seem to be completely blinkered to the fact that a large percentage CHOOSE not to integrate. We don’t impose/force our religion, values and way of life on them, which maybe is a mistake. But as I’ve already TRIED to point out to you, that’s not exactly a 2 way street with Muslim countries is it?
Take your head out the sand pal, your speaking out your arse!
Evil8Beezle:
Rjan:
Another thing, if we want to advance liberal values in deprived communities and stop a regression into black and white authoritarian values, we must ameliorate their deprivation. And with minority communities, we must bring people together, and we must be tolerant and give people time to change.What bloody planet do you live on?
We bend over backwards to ameliorate immigrants, and IF THEY CHOOSE to integrate, they are welcomed. You seem to be completely blinkered to the fact that a large percentage CHOOSE not to integrate. We don’t impose/force our religion, values and way of life on them, which maybe is a mistake. But as I’ve already TRIED to point out to you, that’s not exactly a 2 way street with Muslim countries is it?Take your head out the sand pal, your speaking out your arse!
As the aussie pm said you came here we didn’t invite you and if you dont like our way of life go home thats what we should be telling these muslim immigrants as they are trying to change us into a medieval cult of murder ■■■■ and god alone knows what else Integrate or go home political correctness gone stark staring bonkers
Evil8Beezle:
Rjan:
Another thing, if we want to advance liberal values in deprived communities and stop a regression into black and white authoritarian values, we must ameliorate their deprivation. And with minority communities, we must bring people together, and we must be tolerant and give people time to change.What bloody planet do you live on?
We bend over backwards to ameliorate immigrants, and IF THEY CHOOSE to integrate, they are welcomed. You seem to be completely blinkered to the fact that a large percentage CHOOSE not to integrate. We don’t impose/force our religion, values and way of life on them, which maybe is a mistake. But as I’ve already TRIED to point out to you, that’s not exactly a 2 way street with Muslim countries is it?Take your head out the sand pal, your speaking out your arse!
They’re like brats always demanding we give them this, give them that, “we need time to change” whilst heads get hacked off. This blokes already said it, they don’t want to do anything. He says they need “time to change” ha ha ha bloody ha
Have a ship out program to Saudi if people hate the UK and what it does so much. But that’s no good is it. Islam has Saudi and what some want is an Islamic west. Spit it out, it is the truth. All this silence and posters mentioning slippery fish arguments- its stalling. If I ran the country and found a mosque even remotely knew and did nothing about a terrorist I’d have bloody the lot responsible strung up for treason. I’m sick of listening to it
Look at the Hindu Sikh Buddhist immigrants they came here integrated kept their culture quietly and respectfully made no demands and share their festivals with us They are an integral part of our society and popular unlike the muslims who want to change it to their own They want us back in the middle ages well we have moved on from that ■■■■■ ■■■■ the bleeding heart brigade who scream human rights. The kids in Rotherham had none where those muslim paedos were concerned, My daughter when she worked in Edinburgh was waiting for her taxi one night and three muslim ■■■■■■■■ tried to force her into their car lucky a man saw this and dragged her away. God knows what they would have done to her. I have no time for muslims and that is not racist it is just because I hate their cult it is not a religion it is a cult.
Rjan:
Carryfast:
I wouldn’t call Wahabbi Sharia or Iranian revolutionary law enforced by the sword etc an ‘insignificant cultural difference’.But we don’t have “law enforced by the sword”! Last time I came across anyone who looked vaguely Muslim, he was a wide boy with a Bradford accent. On another occasion, I did actually have someone arguing for an eye for an eye for criminals - although no more forcefully than the average working class man does.
I honestly wonder whether most people who harp on about cultural differences have ever had a conversation with the people they say differ so massively that we must declare war on them immediately!
Another thing, if we want to advance liberal values in deprived communities and stop a regression into black and white authoritarian values, we must ameliorate their deprivation. And with minority communities, we must bring people together, and we must be tolerant and give people time to change.
We can also clamp down, for example, when first-generation immigrants turn to murder over violation of traditional values, but we must recognise that such acts are those of rare extremists, and that our criminal law already has a full answer to it, and that it does not even begin to represent the everyday behaviour of people in those communities.
Leave it out.Firstly you’re trying to justify it on grounds of economic deprivation then you’re also trying to justify it on the grounds of ethnic based split loyalty.It can only be one or the other and it seems obvious which it is.
So how do you make the link between that so called Yorkshire wide boy.As opposed to the idea of us ( rightly ) going to war with Iranian revolutionary Islam or Saudi Wahabbi Islam,or the Taliban or in fact any or all of the Middle East such as in this case Iraq.In order disarm the zb place to stop the excesses and aggression of that region which is mostly based on Islam being taken to its logical conclusion and/or all the other ideas of its leadership like Saddam.
Here’s a clue it’s my guess that most of those Yorkshire wide boys aren’t going to be fighting with,or even just backing,the British Army and government, ‘if’ we ever do go to war with the Middle East,in an alliance with Israel,to disarm the place to pacify it and to stop the savage excesses of Wahabbi and Iranian revolutionary Islam etc.Especially if it involves Pakistan on the side of the Islamic world. 
On that note it would be interesting to hear where exactly you would stand on that hypothetical but arguably justified scenario.
Carryfast:
Rjan:
… In the former case, settled farmers and family men are radicalised into guerrilla soldiers, and because those guerrilla soldiers are the boiling off of the settled population, when you bomb the settled population more or disrupt their lives, you cause more boiling off of settled farmers into guerrilla fighters. Eventually, if the disruption of settled life does not cease, the entire population will be boiled off into guerrilla fighters.I said seal the borders
All four thousand miles of it? Some of it bordering hostile countries, or in hostile areas, and across unknown terrain?
and do whatever it takes to disarm the population
What, in a land mass three times that of Britain, look in every cupboard in the country, every loft, every outhouse, smash every hollow brick wall apart, every concrete pad? Scan the whole surface of the country with metal detectors? Every cave and mountain crevice? Does the technology even exist? Do we have the manpower willing to risk their lives doing this mammoth survey in a reasonable period of time? How many British lives are we willing to lose in the process?
Also, you forget that weapons may be necessary for self-defence and to maintain the peace in those places.
Shall we just accept that civil disarmament is a wholly impossible task in such a place?
and concentrate their minds on peacetime activeties.
Which is what most were already concentrated on before we turned up!
If that means having to bomb every building to dust so be it.If not that’s obviously a bonus.
It’s not a bonus if they have buildings. It’s a prerequisite for pacification! Anything we do to substantially erode the stock of buildings, will assist in radicalising the population. If we really must knock down, then we need to rebuild them and support the population in the meantime.
You talk as though we can just go through the country like a dose of salts and remove weapons. You don’t seem to apprehend the scale or viability of your proposals.
Evil8Beezle:
Freight Dog:
This is your response to my post challenging UK Islamic inaction? This is it? Anyone else care to comment?I’ll comment!
Don’t bother debating with someone who won’t address your points, either ignoring them or says they are not relevant.
My response briefly was to ask what Freight Dog wants to see. I’ve already specifically addressed the point about why their response is always going to be laden with a criticism of foreign policy.
I strongly suspect what Freight Dog wants to see is precisely the opposite: a separation of the two issues when no separation properly exists.
I tried comparing cultural differences with Rjan saying that we breed pigs to eat, so we can’t judge just places like North Korea where it’s culturally acceptable to eat dogs. He comes back and tries to introduce cannibalism and eating babies into the equation!
I ended the discussion there…
I think my point in that discussion was probably lost on you then - it was a very subtle point, so that’s probably my fault not yours.
Rjan:
It was a very subtle point, so that’s probably my fault not yours.
Yawn!
Rjan you suspect wrong. You’ve more than answered my question. I see you conveniently ignored to answer direct points posed later on but I suspected as much. That’s no problem, you’ve said more than enough on the points I raised. Enough to confirm what I already knew but constantly can’t get my head around it so find value in bringing these sentiments to light of day for all to see. I’m not trying to change your opinion. My experience has taught me this is beyond futile.
I made my position very very clear. For all in doubt, refer to my earlier post and Rjans response. The post where I asked for further comment, this is what I expect uk islam to do on uk home security and that was Rjans response.
Rjan:
Carryfast:
Rjan:
… In the former case, settled farmers and family men are radicalised into guerrilla soldiers, and because those guerrilla soldiers are the boiling off of the settled population, when you bomb the settled population more or disrupt their lives, you cause more boiling off of settled farmers into guerrilla fighters. Eventually, if the disruption of settled life does not cease, the entire population will be boiled off into guerrilla fighters.I said seal the borders
All four thousand miles of it? Some of it bordering hostile countries, or in hostile areas, and across unknown terrain?
and do whatever it takes to disarm the population
What, in a land mass three times that of Britain, look in every cupboard in the country, every loft, every outhouse, smash every hollow brick wall apart, every concrete pad? Scan the whole surface of the country with metal detectors? Every cave and mountain crevice? Does the technology even exist? Do we have the manpower willing to risk their lives doing this mammoth survey in a reasonable period of time? How many British lives are we willing to lose in the process?
Also, you forget that weapons may be necessary for self-defence and to maintain the peace in those places.
Shall we just accept that civil disarmament is a wholly impossible task in such a place?
and concentrate their minds on peacetime activeties.
Which is what most were already concentrated on before we turned up!
If that means having to bomb every building to dust so be it.If not that’s obviously a bonus.
It’s not a bonus if they have buildings. It’s a prerequisite for pacification! Anything we do to substantially erode the stock of buildings, will assist in radicalising the population. If we really must knock down, then we need to rebuild them and support the population in the meantime.
You talk as though we can just go through the country like a dose of salts and remove weapons. You don’t seem to apprehend the scale or viability of your proposals.
Syria,Iran,Saudi and Iraq all supposedly concentrating on peacetime activeties. As opposed to arming themselves to the teeth with Russian or Western hardware and causing murder and mayhem in the region just as their ‘book’ teaches them.You’re avin a larf.So remind us why was it we got involved with GW1 and Afghanistan.Or for that matter what happened in 1967 and 1973 in addition to the small short war between Iran and Iraq or for that matter Syria and Iraq as it stands.
The fact is both us and Russia have been stupid enough to appease and arm these zb wits to the teeth.In large part because of people like you wanting to bring them into normal society and/or whatever other agenda.While if you’re as committed to bringing peace to the Middle East as you say you are you’d obviously have no objections to doing whatever it takes to reverse the mistake by disarming them.By giving them the choice of hand over their weapons or die.
As for sealing the borders I meant Europe’s border with Turkey being a good start.The rest is up to Eastern Europe to sort out.Who by hard won historical example aren’t exactly keen on yet more open door Middle Eastern immigration putting them back to where they were during thousands of years of Islamic occupation and subjugation.
