Was the driver charged with manslaughter because he was the last person to touch the trailer ? It’s not said he was involved with them being loaded when and where that was, they are more guilty of the charge. Sad to say they were possibly already dead when he picked up the trailer.
Franglais:
switchlogic:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
My take on it is whether he is innocent or guilty the way the press have jumped in with both feet and continually published utter crap and still are needs looking into, it is a court that finds you guilty not the Sun or Sky News. Yesterdays Daily Mail being a prime example anyone who has ever shipped a trailer and not produced a ‘waybill’ to the port authorities has apparently broken the law and needs to hand themselves in ASAP.
He has gone from being a mass murderer up there with Harold Shipman to being charged with manslaughter a big difference in legal terms. Several years ago a friend of mine was in a similar situation and charged with the murder of one immigrant, by the time it went to court the charge was reduced to trafficking of which when presented with the facts the jury found him not guilty, he was also vilified in the press when arrested, oddly enough there were no major headlines when he was found innocent.There is an argument that all arrested and charged individuals should remain anonymous until proven guilty at trial. Keep them out of the press and media (if that`s possible today!) to protect the reputation of those who are innocent.
Cliff Richard and the media circus when his home was searched. Probably some still whispering “smoke and fire” there.The contrary argument is that justice should be open, so it seen to be done. Generally daylight acts as a disinfectant: get it in the open to look at it properly.
Stuart Hall`s case had further victims coming forward after his arrest on the first ■■■ charges.There is no answer that is 100% correct, and any attempt to go on a “case by case” basis would be open to error or abuse.
So, I reckon we are stuck with naming those charged, BUT that doesnt include giving prejudicial evidence in advance of trial. Although I dont know how it could be practically enforced, a stricter look at lies and false info on social media is desperately needed.There’s also the other argument that naming people is an important part of the investigation as often it’ll lead to people coming forward with evidence
Yes. My second paragraph citing the Stuart Hall case.
Ah yes apologies, I was skim reading
remy:
Was the driver charged with manslaughter because he was the last person to touch the trailer ? It’s not said he was involved with them being loaded when and where that was, they are more guilty of the charge. Sad to say they were possibly already dead when he picked up the trailer.
I would speculate that it was because the whole thing was an organised people smuggling operation and his role in that operation was to collect the trailer and rendezvous with other people involved in the operation in order that the stowaways be taken onward, by minibus for example, and because he was aware of the fact that the trailer would be carrying stowaways he was charged with manslaughter under the general rule of joint responsibility.
Harry Monk:
remy:
Was the driver charged with manslaughter because he was the last person to touch the trailer ? It’s not said he was involved with them being loaded when and where that was, they are more guilty of the charge. Sad to say they were possibly already dead when he picked up the trailer.I would speculate that it was because the whole thing was an organised people-smuggling operation and his role in that operation was to collect the trailer and rendezvous with other people involved in the operation in order that the stowaways be taken onward, by minibus for example, and because he was aware of the fact that the trailer would be carrying stowaways he was charged with manslaughter under the general rule of joint responsibility.
I agree.
I also note that he has been charged with money laundering, among other things. This means that the police have found evidence of him being involved in moving large sums of money around without due care and attention.
switchlogic:
Ah yes apologies, I was skim reading
No worries. 
gooddriver:
Wheel Nut:
He may be British, but he isn’t English, Welsh or Scottish. So we can all claim a British medal if the poster can identify where he really comes from!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He can choose to be Irish or British being from N.Ire but going by the DUP councillor speaking on his family’s behalf on the news and his name/surname I’d assume British, definitely not English not possible unless his parents are English or he was born in England or his grandparents were sorry going on a bit here…
Adams, bejaysus, he must be from Scotland
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dieseldog999:
the 1st one got the usual lock shortly after it started hence we had another one,then this one also,but fair point as its incredibly frustrating and irritating not to be able to voice your opinion without immediately seeing the race card popping up.
Hence me keeping schtum…don’t wanna trigger any snowflakes
Doesn’t make sense to use a rental trailer with a tracker fitted for this kind of enterprise.
Surely getting a knocked off fridge isn’t going to be that difficult.
dieseldog999:
Harry Monk:
Rowley010:
Shows how much crap goes around in these situations. Story I saw said he COULDNT open the trailer doors as it was sealed, which is why I was wondering how anyone knew those people were in there. But obviously him being the one opening the doors is a very different story to that…The driver, Maurice Robinson, opened the trailer doors, that is not disputed by anybody. He also phoned the emergency services, again that is not disputed by anybody. The trailer may have been sealed, and while it would be highly irregular for a driver to remove a seal while en route, it can be done.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
chester says the drivers can open any seals anytime they like to check for load security ect so it absolutely must be correct to do so and never be bothered about rejected/contaminated loads.
its thanks to posters like him that we can carry out our daily routine in a correct manner.
“Chester” loaded a container on Hull docks, when he fastened his twist locks he maintained it was right to open the rear doors despite many warnings from the tallymans office and other drivers,
He crawled out looking like a flour grader, silly sausage had opened a dry bulk container, the load was contaminated, the driver had to find a new job and muggins here had to hire a loading shovel, a tipping trailer and a road sweeper. I can’t remember what the bill was for closing the dock for the day.
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Santa:
Harry Monk:
remy:
Was the driver charged with manslaughter because he was the last person to touch the trailer ? It’s not said he was involved with them being loaded when and where that was, they are more guilty of the charge. Sad to say they were possibly already dead when he picked up the trailer.I would speculate that it was because the whole thing was an organised people-smuggling operation and his role in that operation was to collect the trailer and rendezvous with other people involved in the operation in order that the stowaways be taken onward, by minibus for example, and because he was aware of the fact that the trailer would be carrying stowaways he was charged with manslaughter under the general rule of joint responsibility.
I agree.
I also note that he has been charged with money laundering, among other things. This means that the police have found evidence of him being involved in moving large sums of money around without due care and attention.
Thanks for further info, i was hoping the driver wasn’t involved in the trafficking but just doing what he was told to do by the office. In an article about it an Irish newspaper said the couple arrested in Warrington have also been charged with manslaughter so not just the driver now.
The man and woman and single man have been Released on bail , not charged with anything yet i believe
sammym:
He has probably at this point decided to do some talking (and I don’t blame him).
hopefully this cant be misconstrued as racist as it dont matter what race or country the illegals come from.
if they were videoed scurrying out of the back of a trailer in england,then the outcry would deem them as ilegals,migrants,or the more favoured by the media ,clandestines?
the first guilty ones are the ones who decided happily to request to be illegally trafficked into the uk ( a criminal act), nobody forced then when its been shown that they paid £20 and £30k a pop to get lifted.
the next lot of criminals being the friends and family who happily paid money to known criminals for them to be smuggled illegaly obviously knowing they were paying criminals,( another criminal act).
the next lot are the criminals who traffic any commodities for cash.
after that comes the lot from the uk/n.i or eire that organise and assist ( no doubt the balaclava brigade on one side or the other) with the fall guys being the drivers at the bottom of the chain of criminals.
every single one of the aforementioned are criminals irrespective of for what reason or situation makes them do what they do.
if they are all so poverty stricken,then where did the 20 and 30k cash come from to pay for their journeys,and why dont the ones that got it refunded get arrested to explain where the massive amounts of cash came from?
this lot happened to die in the trailer,not the first time its happened,and it wont be the last.
since woody/mo got caught at essex,theres been another nine dragged out after coming out of dover this time alive, so its never going to stop until france looks after its own borders,or until the uk stops being the land of honey to illegals.
they are now opening a revamped prison ship in ghent to attempt to deal with the latest swarming influx of illegals and as you can imagine its highly likely they want to stop in belgium so once again the uk is the target from there.
the ones that are here have to pay never ending payents to repay the criminals that they arranged transport on penalty of harm coming to their familys abroad so any money they recieve from the uk goes out of the country without the uk economy seeing any of it.
the fact that this lot all died instantly,then the media makes out it was 39 equivelants to mother theresa where in reality they were no better or worse than the axle huggers you see running away every working day around england ferry routes and absolutely every day in their hundreds swarming around french ports.
the more france lets through,then the less france needs to care with the bonus of shafting the uk.
im assuming that this is an accurate description without the race card being played as nobody seems to pick up on the facts of this.
dieseldog999:
if they are all so poverty stricken,then where did the 20 and 30k cash come from to pay for their journeys,and why dont the ones that got it refunded get arrested to explain where the massive amounts of cash came from?
In an interview on BBC News earlier today, one of the fathers who’s son is believed to have been in the trailer said that he’d secured a loan against his land/farm and house to pay for it.
This is one single trailer, according to the Vietnamese media it must be as big as The Herald of Free Enterprise as there are 1000’s allegedly gone missing trying to find a new life.
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dieseldog999:
if they are all so poverty stricken,then where did the 20 and 30k cash come from to pay for their journeys,and why dont the ones that got it refunded get arrested to explain where the massive amounts of cash came from?
Well sometimes they will cobble together enough money through dodgy loans and/or borrowing bits from family & friends etc. to get on their way, but then be exploited for slave labour / prostitution along the way to pay for each leg. Some may even land in the UK with a debt to the traffickers next to their name & then have their families threatened if no repayments are made.
I see they have identified the person who hired the trailer, another Northern Irish person. The other man in his 20s arrested in Dublin yesterday is also from Northern Ireland, it’s been said he drive the trailer to the port in Zeebrugge, his arrest is in relation to another outstanding issue rather than this case. The whole thing seems to be centred around Northern Ireland.
What i find strange / amateur about the whole thing;
- if you are people smuggling would you do it in a Bulgarian registered truck? That has to draw more attention to the authorities. You prob save a few grand a year doing so but pittance versus the smuggling business.
- Especially in a blinged up one - isn’t that bull bar illegal, crying to get pulled over.
- a fridge seems like a lethal choice to use. Yes it can help avoid detection versus a curtain but surely if it’s an organised business they would have cop on to realise the risks.
- why stop where he stopped, on a bend near a junction. opening a door to let 39 people out (who it’s reported had a bag each) is going to take a while.
- hiring a trailer from a company which advertises that they have satellite tracking in all their trailers is foolish.
- combining a blinged Bulgarian reg’d tractor to a trailer which clearly shows that it has been hired from a southern Irish company (sticker on rear) again increases the chances of police / vosa / customs pulling over.
I reckon a few vans were there to meet the truck who then fled, this is a missing link. No way were the smugglers going to let these people (assume little or no English, never been to uk before) out at an industrial estate In the middle of night and drive off. The smugglers own these people and rely on enslaving them until debts repaid.
RoadsRat:
dieseldog999:
if they are all so poverty stricken,then where did the 20 and 30k cash come from to pay for their journeys,and why dont the ones that got it refunded get arrested to explain where the massive amounts of cash came from?In an interview on BBC News earlier today, one of the fathers who’s son is believed to have been in the trailer said that he’d secured a loan against his land/farm and house to pay for it.
As I understand it it’s something like, it costs £30k, give us £7k and you can pay the rest buy working for us for a few years. In reality they enslave them which often involves prostitution on top of a day job(nail bar / manual labour such as picking cockerels)
There paying around 30k a time to get here.
Granted I’ve never been to Vietnam or where ever these people come from.
But surley instead they could use the 30k in there homeland and live very comfortably build them self a nice life there.
As places like that are usually cheap?
Build a house start a business or something instead
You have to remember that the stories you hear from the relatives of the deceased will be jazzed up a bit in translation by the media and more importantly, the triads or snakeheads doing the smuggling will pay them a visit if they say too much. That’s why they’re saying they paid the 30k through loans etc rather than saying that their loved ones will basically have been slaves to the gangs from fear of retribution.
I personally smelled a rat after reading one of the numerous Facebook posts on the subject, the location of the discovery troubled me, knowing the area I immediately knew it was dodgy business and there was a good chance the driver was in it up to his eyeballs. Some of the crap I read on those posts was unreal, still at least none of them mentioned the Twin Splitter or how today’s drivers can’t rope and sheet, so that was a blessing in disguise.
As for the manslaughter charge, that’s just the charge, the crime the participants are convicted of may well be entirely different, but I’m pretty sure the sentences handed out are going to be substantial.