Posted on the Heavy Haulage thread this afternoon. NMP. ro
ERF-NGC-European:
0
Doh!!!
I was trawling through the AEC thread this afternoon and chanced upon a post by John “SAVIEM” (gone but not forgotten!) entered three years before I started this thread. The useful information and John’s usual insights are very relevant to this thread, so I reproduce them here in italics. I would just add that John’s info about the Timkin axles is qualified by Gingerfold’s remarks earlier on this thread, that these were an option rather than standard.
Rowena
by Saviem » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:22 pm
Evening all, having spent a fair bit of time in and around Belgium, its domestic commercial vehicle and haulage scene, not to mention Cycle racing, Beer, Accordian and Organ music, frites and mayonaisse, I have a real love of the country, its people, but not its climate!!
AEC, and Maudslays importer was Ets Spitals SA, based at Deurne, Antwerpen. Spitals were also the importer/concessionaire for Berliet. In 1960, to "seperate the marques AECs portion of Spitals business was renamed AEC Continental SA.
Although the majority of chassis cabs were “cabbed” by Bollekens, Duffel. Other examples were fitted with cabs by Jonkheere, and Van Hool. In the main office reception of the brewer Van Roy, at Wieze was a photograph of some of their Bollekens cabbed AECs. The haulier Pirson, based at Gembloux had photographs of a handsome Mk 111 Mandator, fitted with a sleeper cab by Van Hool that ran up untill the early 70s. AEC were popular buys for the Brewers, Lamott from Mechelen also ran quite a few, but again with Bolleken cabs.
Spitals modified the UK chassis cabs to suit the Belgian market by replacing the AEC axle with a 13tonne rated, US manufactured, Timkin axle, hence the name for the Belgian Mandator, the “Super” Mandator! I remember seeing a Van Hool cabbed Super Mandator operated by Longevin et Cie, still running in 1974. The Mercury, (in Belgium the Monarch), received the same axle “transplant”, and became a very popular 6x2 conversion base. Lots of these lorries were still about into the early 80s, a testement to their quality, (and ability to suffer abuse)!!
The Belgian market place was one of the most “open” in Europe, and the world and his wife sold their products there. That with such available choice that the Belgian operator chose AEC shows how good was the product. The Tractor Dealer from whom I have just purchased my new John Deere has in one of his sheds his late fathers “Super Mandator”, (Bollekens cab), and many happy tails to tell of her! There is still a great deal of nostalgia for AEC in Belgian transport circles.
When I used to visit Saviems Swiss Concessionaire, Nubag AG, I once remarked at the number of B Series ERFs that we used to see . Only to be told that it was lucky that Leyland made a mess of the strong ties between Southall, and their Swiss AEC Importer, Emil Frey AG,of Zurich, because otherwise there would have been even more AECs than ERFs, so well did they perform in Switzerland!!!
In France the strong ties developing between AEC and Willeme, where all the heavy range became AEC powered, and there was real potential to develop the synergy between the companys, perhaps even for joint manufacture, but cut short as both marques lacked financial liquidity. The death knell was the Leyland takeover of AEC, and the phasing out of the AEC power units, although Willeme marketed the BMC lighter range as Willeme in France, and had quite some success with them as well.
Sad is it not, an eminently acceptable product, in a market, (Europe), that yet again we failed to realise its potential. Leyland do not seem to come out of this well, they bought, then killed off Brossel in Belgium, and lost market share, made a complete “cod” of the tie up with Hotchkiss in France, (only ever having success many years later with the Rolls Powered Roadtrain in the 80s under Leyland France), which of course was killed off for their own ends by dear old DAF. And it would seem failed to recognise the potential of AECs products, both lorry and Bus on the World stage. Its driven me to drink, I shall away to the Bollinger, Cheerio for now.
Saviem
Both AEC’s Mk III equipped with a Bollekens cab.
A.E.C Continental S.A, Rue Tweemont Straat 165-167, Deurne, Antwerp. The sign has been taken down, but the outline was visible on the brickwork.
mandatormick:
1 A.E.C Continental S.A, Rue Tweemont Straat 165-167, Deurne, Antwerp. The sign has been taken down, but the outline was visible on the brickwork.
Nice post 
. Welcome to the forum!
Reading back through this thread it occurs to me that at no point is the the actual version of the TET (Thornycroft) constant-mesh 6-speed 'box mentioned. It was probably the D203 in the Belgian Mk5 unit. The D236 and D250 might have been a bit later (and the final D273 presumably too late). Can anyone confirm which version was fitted?
Ro
ERF-NGC-European:
Reading back through this thread it occurs to me that at no point is the the actual version of the TET (Thornycroft) constant-mesh 6-speed 'box mentioned. It was probably the D203 in the Belgian Mk5 unit. The D236 and D250 might have been a bit later (and the final D273 presumably too late). Can anyone confirm which version was fitted?Ro
I think I’ve found the answer to my own question. I asked a similar question on the AEC V8 thread a long time ago and ‘ERF’ replied with his usual wonderful detail and insights as follows (in italics):
The basic 6-speed o/d gearbox available in the AV760 Mandator was the TET D203 with it’s 1-3/4" input shaft. This, at 615 lb-ft, had a design torque capacity very slightly higher than service torque capacity of the ONLY Fuller Roadranger in production in the UK in 1968, the RT and RTO610. Both were designed for use in service with engines developing up to 600lb-ft torque.
To fit the D203 to the V8 engine required an extended selector housing to allow the change rod to clear the RH cylinder bank. This modified gearbox was designated the D236 and it was fitted to all Mandator V8’s from the start of production until early in 1969.
When the higher output AV800/801 powered V8’s were produced, TET increased the torque capacity of the D236 by beefing up the front end bearings and fitting a 2" input shaft. This gearbox was the D250, and it was fitted to all subsequent V8’s that had the 6-speed gearbox option, including the AV740’s.
Higher capacity 6-speeds were already on the drawing board at TET in 1970, and some of these would go on to be used by Guy in the Big J, AEC/Leyland in the Marathon (behind the L12 engine) and by Scammell in the Routeman, Handyman and Trunker.
By 1976 the last version (to the best of my knowledge) of the old 6-speed was being produced, by this time Eaton had taken over at TET, and this gearbox (still with a 2" input shaft) featured needle roller bearings on the mainshaft gears (as opposed to the bronze bushes of the D236 and D250), higher torque capacity gears and taper roller bearings (as opposed to roller bearings) on the mainshaft and layshaft. This gearbox was the D273 and was a Scammell option right to the end of Routeman production.
ERF-NGC-European:
ERF-NGC-European:
Reading back through this thread it occurs to me that at no point is the the actual version of the TET (Thornycroft) constant-mesh 6-speed 'box mentioned. It was probably the D203 in the Belgian Mk5 unit. The D236 and D250 might have been a bit later (and the final D273 presumably too late). Can anyone confirm which version was fitted?Ro
I think I’ve found the answer to my own question. I asked a similar question on the AEC V8 thread a long time ago and ‘ERF’ replied with his usual wonderful detail and insights as follows (in italics):
The basic 6-speed o/d gearbox available in the AV760 Mandator was the TET D203 with it’s 1-3/4" input shaft. This, at 615 lb-ft, had a design torque capacity very slightly higher than service torque capacity of the ONLY Fuller Roadranger in production in the UK in 1968, the RT and RTO610. Both were designed for use in service with engines developing up to 600lb-ft torque.
To fit the D203 to the V8 engine required an extended selector housing to allow the change rod to clear the RH cylinder bank. This modified gearbox was designated the D236 and it was fitted to all Mandator V8’s from the start of production until early in 1969.
When the higher output AV800/801 powered V8’s were produced, TET increased the torque capacity of the D236 by beefing up the front end bearings and fitting a 2" input shaft. This gearbox was the D250, and it was fitted to all subsequent V8’s that had the 6-speed gearbox option, including the AV740’s.
Higher capacity 6-speeds were already on the drawing board at TET in 1970, and some of these would go on to be used by Guy in the Big J, AEC/Leyland in the Marathon (behind the L12 engine) and by Scammell in the Routeman, Handyman and Trunker.
By 1976 the last version (to the best of my knowledge) of the old 6-speed was being produced, by this time Eaton had taken over at TET, and this gearbox (still with a 2" input shaft) featured needle roller bearings on the mainshaft gears (as opposed to the bronze bushes of the D236 and D250), higher torque capacity gears and taper roller bearings (as opposed to roller bearings) on the mainshaft and layshaft. This gearbox was the D273 and was a Scammell option right to the end of Routeman production.
Hey, some had ZF boxes.
Eric,
tiptop495:
ERF-NGC-European:
ERF-NGC-European:
Reading back through this thread it occurs to me that at no point is the the actual version of the TET (Thornycroft) constant-mesh 6-speed 'box mentioned. It was probably the D203 in the Belgian Mk5 unit. The D236 and D250 might have been a bit later (and the final D273 presumably too late). Can anyone confirm which version was fitted?Ro
I think I’ve found the answer to my own question. I asked a similar question on the AEC V8 thread a long time ago and ‘ERF’ replied with his usual wonderful detail and insights as follows (in italics):
The basic 6-speed o/d gearbox available in the AV760 Mandator was the TET D203 with it’s 1-3/4" input shaft. This, at 615 lb-ft, had a design torque capacity very slightly higher than service torque capacity of the ONLY Fuller Roadranger in production in the UK in 1968, the RT and RTO610. Both were designed for use in service with engines developing up to 600lb-ft torque.
To fit the D203 to the V8 engine required an extended selector housing to allow the change rod to clear the RH cylinder bank. This modified gearbox was designated the D236 and it was fitted to all Mandator V8’s from the start of production until early in 1969.
When the higher output AV800/801 powered V8’s were produced, TET increased the torque capacity of the D236 by beefing up the front end bearings and fitting a 2" input shaft. This gearbox was the D250, and it was fitted to all subsequent V8’s that had the 6-speed gearbox option, including the AV740’s.
Higher capacity 6-speeds were already on the drawing board at TET in 1970, and some of these would go on to be used by Guy in the Big J, AEC/Leyland in the Marathon (behind the L12 engine) and by Scammell in the Routeman, Handyman and Trunker.
By 1976 the last version (to the best of my knowledge) of the old 6-speed was being produced, by this time Eaton had taken over at TET, and this gearbox (still with a 2" input shaft) featured needle roller bearings on the mainshaft gears (as opposed to the bronze bushes of the D236 and D250), higher torque capacity gears and taper roller bearings (as opposed to roller bearings) on the mainshaft and layshaft. This gearbox was the D273 and was a Scammell option right to the end of Routeman production.Hey, some had ZF boxes.
Eric,
That’s interesting. Would that have been the AK-80 six-speed constant-mesh one?
ERF-NGC-European:
tiptop495:
ERF-NGC-European:
ERF-NGC-European:
Reading back through this thread it occurs to me that at no point is the the actual version of the TET (Thornycroft) constant-mesh 6-speed 'box mentioned. It was probably the D203 in the Belgian Mk5 unit. The D236 and D250 might have been a bit later (and the final D273 presumably too late). Can anyone confirm which version was fitted?Ro
I think I’ve found the answer to my own question. I asked a similar question on the AEC V8 thread a long time ago and ‘ERF’ replied with his usual wonderful detail and insights as follows (in italics):
The basic 6-speed o/d gearbox available in the AV760 Mandator was the TET D203 with it’s 1-3/4" input shaft. This, at 615 lb-ft, had a design torque capacity very slightly higher than service torque capacity of the ONLY Fuller Roadranger in production in the UK in 1968, the RT and RTO610. Both were designed for use in service with engines developing up to 600lb-ft torque.
To fit the D203 to the V8 engine required an extended selector housing to allow the change rod to clear the RH cylinder bank. This modified gearbox was designated the D236 and it was fitted to all Mandator V8’s from the start of production until early in 1969.
When the higher output AV800/801 powered V8’s were produced, TET increased the torque capacity of the D236 by beefing up the front end bearings and fitting a 2" input shaft. This gearbox was the D250, and it was fitted to all subsequent V8’s that had the 6-speed gearbox option, including the AV740’s.
Higher capacity 6-speeds were already on the drawing board at TET in 1970, and some of these would go on to be used by Guy in the Big J, AEC/Leyland in the Marathon (behind the L12 engine) and by Scammell in the Routeman, Handyman and Trunker.
By 1976 the last version (to the best of my knowledge) of the old 6-speed was being produced, by this time Eaton had taken over at TET, and this gearbox (still with a 2" input shaft) featured needle roller bearings on the mainshaft gears (as opposed to the bronze bushes of the D236 and D250), higher torque capacity gears and taper roller bearings (as opposed to roller bearings) on the mainshaft and layshaft. This gearbox was the D273 and was a Scammell option right to the end of Routeman production.Hey, some had ZF boxes.
Eric,
That’s interesting. Would that have been the AK-80 six-speed constant-mesh one?
Hey sorry a late answer.
Not sure but think for engines for around or plus 200Hp, was most the ZF AK 6-90 used.
Or the twelf speed ZF AK 6-90 - GV80.
I will look in mij brochures and spec sheets if something is mentioned.
Eric,
A Christmas Eve puzzle for you.
Here’s a Belgian cabbed AEC that DEANB popped on the heavy haulage thread. It doesn’t look like a Bollekens cab to me, I wondered who might have built it.
ERF-NGC-European:
A Christmas Eve puzzle for you.Here’s a Belgian cabbed AEC that DEANB popped on the heavy haulage thread. It doesn’t look like a Bollekens cab to me, I wondered who might have built it.
0
Hey, don’t think it’s Bollekens, and even think no Belgian cab.
I have see more pic of Van Twist, all had strange cabs, maybe they were built by them self. Once I had some pic’s of AEC’s of them.
But don’t have them anymore, gave them to someone who liked special heavy haulage. pitty.
Eric,
Hey Robert, if goy Google you will find the pic I had, they are standing on heavy transport Van Twist.
The two I had years ago.
tiptop495:
Hey Robert, if goy Google you will find the pic I had, they are standing on heavy transport Van Twist.The two I had years ago.
Well done Eric: thank you! They may have Dutch cabs then. Merry Christmas to you 
Re above ^^^. Pv83 suggests on another thread this morning that Van Twist were AEC dealers so that strengthens Eric’s suggestion that Van Twist built the cab too. 
I strongly doubt if Van Twist (mind the fact that they assembled the Seddon-VanTwist, however without full cab, only the
hood and fenders were there) did the bodywork. On the other hand, why would a distributor and user of AEC go to Belgium
where only a hand full of body-workers had the possibility, meaning that 80% was involved in coaches, like Van Hool, L.A.G.
and Jonckheere…as been said by Eric (TIPTOP) and Coovi was far too small, physically and business-wise.
Camerman did teh job themselves, with quite a bunch of surplus-items to produce a cab, to say the least a chassis.
Perhaps…a very small chance…the Miesse (Deraedt-VanNeste) was in charge for also the same cab-maker?
