davepenn54:
This is one I drove on the NETTO contract when Barbers of Oughtibridge had the distribution out of Gildersome in 92/93
Not my pictures but had a couple of friends that’s worked for barbers Morris and Ian deakin
Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
I loved those Barber Roadtrains, a very distinctive corporate identity.
My favourite of all were the Hardings ones, blue Interstater cab, red chassis and a cream coloured fridge, I think they were a cheese manufacturer or something like that, they were always immaculate. I think they had Fodens before the Leylands and they went to topline 113 Scanias after the T45s, the driver’s got more comfortable with each new lorry.
Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
One of the last Leyland 80 series Oxford Brs ran on day and nights , Tony Keep had this on Days running to South Wales
Swindon fleet of T45’S two high datum sleepers, two day cabbed and a lone Cruiser .
This was a demo sent to Wallingford on the Habitat contract ,it had a hard couple on months I can tell you and was liked by all but know one took care of it .
They still look modern, to this day, in my opinion.
Even Leyland’s greatest fan reckons the gearbox is wrong.
[zb]
anorak:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWIIO2iDU00
They still look modern, to this day, in my opinion.Even Leyland’s greatest fan reckons the gearbox is wrong.
I was about to post the same youtube video (it’s Thames TV from 1980, featuring Pat Kennett).
What was the 'box - Spicer?
ParkRoyal2100:
[zb]
anorak:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWIIO2iDU00
They still look modern, to this day, in my opinion.Even Leyland’s greatest fan reckons the gearbox is wrong.
I was about to post the same youtube video (it’s Thames TV from 1980, featuring Pat Kennett).
What was the 'box - Spicer?
Yes, I would have thought it was a Spicer. Ironically, RHD Roadtrains seem to have been fitted with Spicer as standard equipt. whereas the LHD ones had 9-sp Fullers in them. I know which I would prefer!
Robert
ERF-NGC-European:
ParkRoyal2100:
[zb]
anorak:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWIIO2iDU00
They still look modern, to this day, in my opinion.Even Leyland’s greatest fan reckons the gearbox is wrong.
I was about to post the same youtube video (it’s Thames TV from 1980, featuring Pat Kennett).
What was the 'box - Spicer?
Yes, I would have thought it was a Spicer. Ironically, RHD Roadtrains seem to have been fitted with Spicer as standard equipt. whereas the LHD ones had 9-sp Fullers in them. I know which I would prefer!
Robert
I’d guess that the consensus in the day was,arguably rightly,seeing an advantage in pre selectable split shifts.As opposed to range change in which each shift has to be a lever and double de clutched movement at the time it’s needed.As also shown by the girl managing to get at least one upshift done which she obviously wouldn’t have managed with a range change box. 
I’ve said elsewhere that I actually preferred the ZF 12 speed splitter in the DAF 2800 than more or less any other box.
Until Eaton then took the idea to silly levels with the twin splitter.In which the 18 speed range change and splitter has finally won out combining more or less the best of both worlds.Except that without being clutch actuated the Fuller’s splitter obviously has no pre select function,unlike the Spicer and ZF splitter types.
I think Spicer must have been offering them dirt cheap to the manufacturers because IIRC the S/A 401 and Bedford TM were also made with Spicer gearboxes, and these models all came out roundabout the same time. It’s a long time ago now but I think there was a small Spicer, to compete with the small Fuller, which went into the S/A 301 as an option.
Yes, they must have been cheaper than Fullers, and Leyland was probably sensitive to the fact that it was being propped up by the state.
What was wrong with Spicer gearboxes? If it was weak or obstructive synchromesh, that would be horrible, but these gearboxes were dog engagement. How did their engineers manage to ■■■■ that up?
[zb]
anorak:
What was wrong with Spicer gearboxes? If it was weak or obstructive synchromesh, that would be horrible, but these gearboxes were dog engagement. How did their engineers manage to ■■■■ that up?
Like the 12 speed ZF just not as relatively forgiving of anything less than spot on timing and road/engine speed matching as a Fuller isn’t the same thing as engineering ■■■■ up.IE the Fuller’s exceptional ease of use still just proves the rule of the way better shift quality of the constant mesh ZF 12 speed and the Spicer Splitters over the synchro 16 speed Eco Split for example.IE any superiority in forgiving nature of the Fuller over the ZF or Spicer in terms of shift quality is all only relative and subjective with the convenience of pre select splitter arguably winning out over the Fuller’s range change.
I drove a B reg constructor (t45cab) with a 9spd fuller th
ought the gearbox /gearlever change was great,but on the B reg roadtrain with the spicer ,other drivers not just me thought the box was awful.Its strange thinking back that some drivers just couldnt get clean changes on the roadtrain but on the constructor were as smooth as silk.
I think part of the problem was that at the same time as fitting Spicer gearboxes the manufacturers also went over to fitting the simply awful Spicer clutches as well. This turned clutch adjustment into a two man job which meant that often it got done less often since the procedure was not only more involved so taking longer, but more often than not the mechanism had seized. The Spicer ended up spending more time out of adjustment than the Lipe - even though it was supposed to be self adjusting. In spite of, or maybe because of being clearly marked which way to turn the adjuster, it was very often found to have been wound the wrong way which meant it didn’t clear properly, resulting in baulked gearchanges.
The actual components were more robust than the Lipe Rollway ; they were also a ■■■■ sight heavier, ISTR that the 2" shaft Spicer clutch had to be assembled to the flywheel in one lump whereas the Lipe could be fitted in its component parts. It didn’t help that this was the period when both clutch manufacturers were extolling the virtues of ceramic linings which were supposed to last longer but simply didn’t, because the although they were fiercer in engagement, which was meant to stop them being slipped in practice, it didn’t work out that way. Although in theory the linings could absorb the heat the ironwork couldn’t, this then transferred back to the linings, they melted and everything cooked. With no smell of fried Ferodo to warn them the drivers didn’t realise they were caning the clutch until it failed.
I agree with Cav regarding Spicer clutches! Luckily we only had one on our fleet, it was in a Sed-Ak 300 with International turbo engine and ZF six speed constant mesh 'box and it was a lovely drive until the clutch got out of adjustment and you then ‘caught’ every gear. Then it was a fiddly two person task to sort it out, one person in the cab pressing the pedal down and me underneath spending ten minutes rotating the adjuster with a screwdriver only to find I was turning it the wrong way! 
Pete.
Carryfast:
Like the 12 speed ZF just not as relatively forgiving of anything less than spot on timing and road/engine speed matching as a Fuller isn’t the same thing as engineering ■■■■ up.IE the Fuller’s exceptional ease of use still just proves the rule of the way better shift quality of the constant mesh ZF 12 speed and the Spicer Splitters over the synchro 16 speed Eco Split for example.IE any superiority in forgiving nature of the Fuller over the ZF or Spicer in terms of shift quality is all only relative and subjective with the convenience of pre select splitter arguably winning out over the Fuller’s range change.
WTF U chattin? If its worse than the other one, it’s a ■■■■ up.
What I asked was, why was it inferior? Did the dogs have a disadvantageous number of teeth, was the detent spring wrong, was some other parameter less optimal? IE I was hoping for an educated answer.
Apart from being a splitter transmission there was one significant difference between the Spicer SST10? and the Fuller Roadranger in the design of the dog clutches; although both employed the floating mainshaft principle with no bushes for the mainshaft gears.
The Spicer used a curvic coupling design to mate the dogclutch to the gear. In simple terms the Fuller dog clutches had longitudinal teeth cut inside the gear and on the outside diameter of the dog clutch. The dogclutch then mated with the inside diameter of the gear. The Spicer however had vertical teeth cut onto a boss on the face of the gear and onto the face of the dog clutch. Whereas there was more room to accommodate a taper to the teeth on the Fuller there was less for a taper in the Spicer design. This made the Spicer less forgiving to engine speed mismatch.
IIRC the Roadtrain was piped up so that you could preselect the splitter while you were not supposed to do that with the Seddon.
The more I think about it the more I think that if there was no preselect fitted it tried to engage as soon as you worked the button, which either resulted in an instant jerk or a box of neutrals and a lot of noise. I think the Spicer casing was aluminium as well.
