Leyland Marathon...The "Nearly" Truck of The 1970s?

[deanb]

Sent you a PM Graham !

[gingerfold]

Just a point about quoted / published power outputs of AEC engines. In the latest AEC Gazette it is stated by a former AEC employee that AEC always quoted “conservative” engine bhp output figures, in other words they produced more bhp than specified, something that was suspected by those of us that drove and operated AECs when they were in their heyday.

[coomsey]

Any reason they didn’t go for the Bollekens cab?

[erf-ngc-european]

coomsey:
0Any reason they didn’t go for the Bollekens cab?

Those Bollekens cabs hail from the period leading up to our entry into the EEC and the consequent need for sleeper cabs on UK premium tractive units. By the mid-'70s the UK could make its own sleepers. It should also be remembered that prior to the EEC, foreign cabs like Bollekens would have to be imported and the costs of taxes and tariffs would have mitigated against such practice. Cheers, Robert.

[oiltreader]

One or two.
Oily

[coomsey]

ERF-NGC-European:

coomsey:
0Any reason they didn’t go for the Bollekens cab?

Those Bollekens cabs hail from the period leading up to our entry into the EEC and the consequent need for sleeper cabs on UK premium tractive units. By the mid-'70s the UK could make its own sleepers. It should also be remembered that prior to the EEC, foreign cabs like Bollekens would have to be imported and the costs of taxes and tariffs would have mitigated against such practice. Cheers, Robert.

Guessed as much Robert. Post 2019 will we be running Marathons again?

[chris_webb]

A E Evans ran some Marathons with the 250 ■■■■■■■■■■■■ was one of them at Barking.Shop steward at Sheffield had TVF 932R.
All I can say about the Marathon is that anybody,like me,who drove all the older AECs such as MK3s,MK5s and tilt cab Mandators found the Marathon a revelation and I loved mine.I could put up with cab nodding and small steering wheel,didn’t bother me one bit.
So you can knock the Marathon as much as you want,it did well for me and it earned me some brass.

[erf-ngc-european]

coomsey:

ERF-NGC-European:

coomsey:
0Any reason they didn’t go for the Bollekens cab?

Those Bollekens cabs hail from the period leading up to our entry into the EEC and the consequent need for sleeper cabs on UK premium tractive units. By the mid-'70s the UK could make its own sleepers. It should also be remembered that prior to the EEC, foreign cabs like Bollekens would have to be imported and the costs of taxes and tariffs would have mitigated against such practice. Cheers, Robert.

Guessed as much Robert. Post 2019 will we be running Marathons again?

Hope so! I’d sooner drive a Marathon than anything I see on the road now - good job I’m retired isn’t it! Robert

[bma_finland]

wht my eyes ,cheers benkku

[chris_webb]

bma.finland:
0wht my eyes ,cheers benkku

Kiitos Benkku.
I would take that out tomorrow.

[ramone]

Carryfast:
I had the misfortune of nights out with that short sleeper as opposed to the longer version shown in the Mid Easter photo.While to add insult to injury it was obviously an excessively narrow cab which then didn’t leave enough room for a decent steering wheel which was another flaw which I hated about the thing.As for the brakes what brakes especially when pulling knackered old unaccompanied trailers.The thing was a joke in trying to make a decent truck out of the Ergo and compared to the DAF 2800 which was the truck it should have been.

I think most manufacturers apart from Mercedes switched to smaller steering wheels. Maybe the poor brakes were down to maintenance , like you said pulling unaccompanied trailers which were knackered won`t have helped, as for the short sleeper that would be your bosses fault for not specking a unit with a full sleeper. Horses for courses , you sound more like a modern day steering wheel attendant than an older experienced driver.

[coomsey]

ERF-NGC-European:

coomsey:

ERF-NGC-European:

coomsey:
0Any reason they didn’t go for the Bollekens cab?

Those Bollekens cabs hail from the period leading up to our entry into the EEC and the consequent need for sleeper cabs on UK premium tractive units. By the mid-'70s the UK could make its own sleepers. It should also be remembered that prior to the EEC, foreign cabs like Bollekens would have to be imported and the costs of taxes and tariffs would have mitigated against such practice. Cheers, Robert.

Guessed as much Robert. Post 2019 will we be running Marathons again?

Hope so! I’d sooner drive a Marathon than anything I see on the road now - good job I’m retired isn’t it! Robert

Last motor I ever drove on the road, 5/6yr old when I got her n only had her for a month. Can’t recall that much about her but I definitely remember the brakes, a bum tightener until you sussed em. So when the Marathon 3hits the road it’ll be seamless for me

[ramone]

gingerfold:
With Robert confirming the date of the Ford Transcontinental as April 1975, (Bewick thread) some 18 months after the Marathon, the latest information that AEC / Leyland were considering the Berliet cab for the Marathon is even more interesting. Hazarding a guess then I would suggest that cost would have been the deciding factor that made BL make do with a re-worked Ergomatic cab. The writer of the Marathon article in the AEC Gazette states that no matter what they tried they couldn’t easily eliminate the choppy riding characteristics of the day-cabbed Marathons and the main reason was that the raised cab was top heavy and unbalanced. The sleeper cabbed versions gave a much improved ride; the extra weight of the sleeper giving more balance to the cab.

Incidentally I drove a demonstrator TL12 Marathon in 1974 and quite frankly it terrified me for the first hour or so until I got used to it. Up to then I had never driven an artic as powerful and fast as that. The cable operated gear change felt sloppy and the brake pedal felt unresponsive, but to echo Chris Webb’s comment, the performance had to be experienced to be believed.

Werent the Transcontinentals quite heavy , I wonder if the cab would have been too heavy for BLs liking and I dont remember a day cabbed version

[gingerfold]

ramone:

gingerfold:
With Robert confirming the date of the Ford Transcontinental as April 1975, (Bewick thread) some 18 months after the Marathon, the latest information that AEC / Leyland were considering the Berliet cab for the Marathon is even more interesting. Hazarding a guess then I would suggest that cost would have been the deciding factor that made BL make do with a re-worked Ergomatic cab. The writer of the Marathon article in the AEC Gazette states that no matter what they tried they couldn’t easily eliminate the choppy riding characteristics of the day-cabbed Marathons and the main reason was that the raised cab was top heavy and unbalanced. The sleeper cabbed versions gave a much improved ride; the extra weight of the sleeper giving more balance to the cab.

Incidentally I drove a demonstrator TL12 Marathon in 1974 and quite frankly it terrified me for the first hour or so until I got used to it. Up to then I had never driven an artic as powerful and fast as that. The cable operated gear change felt sloppy and the brake pedal felt unresponsive, but to echo Chris Webb’s comment, the performance had to be experienced to be believed.

Werent the Transcontinentals quite heavy , I wonder if the cab would have been too heavy for BLs liking and I dont remember a day cabbed version

Yes, the Berliet cab looked to be a heavy structure, plus the ■■■■■■■ engine was 7 cwt heavier than a TL12.

[gingerfold]

Section 3 and the Appendices

[ramone]

There`s no mention of the E290 ■■■■■■■ Graham , could this have been a special order , it had NTE290 on the manufacturers plate which was fixed to the bottom of the passenger side seat.

[deanb]

An article about the Marathon’s.

Click on pags twice to view.

[deanb]

Marathon road test from 1980.

Click on pages twice to view.

[gingerfold]

ramone:
There`s no mention of the E290 ■■■■■■■ Graham , could this have been a special order , it had NTE290 on the manufacturers plate which was fixed to the bottom of the passenger side seat.

In terms of power output the TL12 and ■■■■■■■ E290 were similar, so at launch of the Marathon the power range thought necessary were covered by the ■■■■■■■ 250, the TL12, and the CU335, the latter being only thought necessary for the 6x4 version. The Mk.2 Marathon became available when it was thought that the T45 was only a couple of years away from launch in 1979, as it happened the T45 didn’t appear until late 1980. Leyland had decided that the engine options for the T45 were to be TL12 (280 bhp and a 320 bhp development), RR 290 (as introduced into the Marathon Mk. 2 in 1979), and the ■■■■■■■ E290, with the higher powered CU335 as an option. So the E290 was available in the Marathon Mk.2 at the same time roughly as the RR290. In effect from late 1979 until the end of Marathon production the engine options available were the same as the T45 Roadtrain, and as stated in my text the Spicer gear box was also fitted.

The test report posted by DEAN (thank you) is slightly misleading in that there were no plans to phase out the TL12 engine at the end of Marathon production. But, as in all things Leyland at that time, it did get political. Some months before Southall was closed TL12 engine production was transferred to Leyland Motors and even 20 years after the AEC / Leyland “merger” there was still acrimony and by 1983 the writing was on the wall for the TL12. As by then its only chassis application was the T45, Leyland could actually buy in engines from ■■■■■■■ and RR cheaper than its own manufacturing costs of TL12s, so it was discontinued, the last TL12 powered T45 Roadtrains going into service in 1984, and Spillers had some of them, who was my employer then.

[carryfast]

ramone:

Carryfast:
I had the misfortune of nights out with that short sleeper as opposed to the longer version shown in the Mid Easter photo.While to add insult to injury it was obviously an excessively narrow cab which then didn’t leave enough room for a decent steering wheel which was another flaw which I hated about the thing.As for the brakes what brakes especially when pulling knackered old unaccompanied trailers.The thing was a joke in trying to make a decent truck out of the Ergo and compared to the DAF 2800 which was the truck it should have been.

I think most manufacturers apart from Mercedes switched to smaller steering wheels. Maybe the poor brakes were down to maintenance , like you said pulling unaccompanied trailers which were knackered won`t have helped, as for the short sleeper that would be your bosses fault for not specking a unit with a full sleeper. Horses for courses , you sound more like a modern day steering wheel attendant than an older experienced driver.

As I remember it the DAF 85/95 also both had decent sized steering wheels.Probably because like the 2800 and unlike the Marathon it wasn’t an after thought caused by a zb cab design.Also don’t see how a preference,for a decent proper truck sized steering wheel and the constant mesh ZF box,makes anyone a car driving steering wheel attendant. While the DAF obviously didn’t offer the guvnor the choice of adding the insult of the short sleeper to the injury of the cheap and nasty narrow Ergo ‘upgrade’.

As for the brakes.I also did the same job with an F10 which to the guvnor’s credit rotated equally with the Marathon between me and the more senior driver he had working for him.Make no mistake I’m always the first to defend Brit trucks.But not afraid to call a spade a spade in the case of heaps like the Marathon which ironically was the type of junk which just added to the unfair stereotypes against other much better products.