Leyland Marathon...The "Nearly" Truck of The 1970s?

[carryfast]

ramone:
We have a saying in England Benkku … "You can`t put in what God left out "

But God doesn’t make trucks people do.

The question in this case being how did Leyland then end up with the Marathon still being in production in 1978 competing with foreign products like the F12.Using the flawed TL12 engine when the big cam ■■■■■■■ was there and silly retrograde cab designs like the short sleeper Marathon let alone following T45.When MP could provide the SA 400 type design.Why was even SA then handicapping the ■■■■■■■ with a 9 speed transmission when 13 speed was available and ridiculously low gearing on an engine that clearly and obviously needed to be turning over at no more than 1,500 rpm at motorway speeds.Last but not least why were the bigger torque/power ■■■■■■■ options like the 320 held back when DAF and Volvo etc were already well past the 300 hp mark.All that then glossed over in road test examples which had the nerve to trash the F12 cab while playing down the primitive nature of the Marathon let alone a road test result which suggested that the TL12 powered Marathon could outrun the F12.IE none of that had anything whatsoever to do with the Almighty and more to do with US foreign policy and geopolitics in which we were sold out by our own treacherous government.

[carryfast]

windrush:
As an ‘outsider’ reading this (who never drove anything other than a British built truck) it gives me the impression that everything made in Sweden or Holland was fantastic, or was that just in ‘Carryfastland’ and the truth was that apart from more spacious cabs (and again I’m guessing that the Continental lads probably covered more mileage and nighted out more than the Brits?) there wasn’t a lot between them really? They all did the job of work adequately, and the Marathon must have suited a lot of operators as there were plenty of them around and folk on here who drove them seemed to like them, apart from one person of course. Anyway no doubt this thread will have a few more pages to run…

Pete.

You did read DeanB’s comments.

What was the difference between nights out in the UK or on the Continent.While I’d suggest that anyone who thinks that the narrow let alone short sleeper Marathon Ergo derived heap was anything like adequate v the Volvo F10/12 for that probably never actually drove them on that work.Nor was the resulting silly small steering wheel just a case of ‘getting used to it’ as suggested in the test.I for one hated the thing as much when I left the job as when I started driving it just as the senior driver who I worked with there did.

Which leaves the questions why when we already had designs like the SA 400 and Bedford TM well established by then.Not to mention an obvious attempt in the road test to gloss over the very real backward nature of the TL12 by pretending that the thing could outrun an F12 and playing down the primitive nature of the Marathon’s cab while stupidly having a moan at the Volvo’s.Or for that matter not making more of the SA’s ridiculous gearing let alone 9 speed Fuller competing with the better closer ratio steps provided by the foreign competition.Instead again trying to paint the Volvo’s 16 speed transmission as ‘excessive’ like it’s power output.

On that not I have to say that the trade press was as much to blame in the demise of the Brit truck manufacturing industry as the government probably was.For not telling it like it was when there still might have been time to do something about fixing the obvious stitch up,in the deliberate handicapping of Brit products,which was going on in the day.

[gazsa401]

I never drove a Marathon but I did drive a Roadtrain
At the end of the day I went to work for good pay and conditions
I could of gone half a mile down the road and drove a F12 Globetrotter or a R Series 112 Scania for nearly half what I was earning
A lot of it is down to badge snobbery
I was more than happy driving British made lorries

[juddian]

Ah Windrush the voice of sense and reason.

I never quite understood the yearning from so many drivers for these foreign motors, come the 80’s the Brits were singing, the cab itself never bothered me all that much, though the Sed Ack 401 was great improvement over the 400, both in cab interior but also sorted the steering and other things out.

Give me a proper ■■■■■■■■ not the L10 dear Lord wasn’t that a bloody gutless horror, coupled to an Eaton/Fuller of some sort (and 8 gears was plenty even with a high ratio axle), and a Rockeell final drive, and i was happy as larry.
They were proper driver’s lorries, gearboxes that did exactly as the driver wanted them too, engines big enough to cope happy to lug right down to stall revs and still pulling, geared high so you could take advantage of the ■■■■■■■ extraordinary pull at around 1000 rpm.
Thing is they were faster overall than the foreign lorries whilst still returning good fuel figures, and many of us got paid on what we did, and i like Gazsa only did it for the money, big lorry kudos can do one.

Much of my working life has been on car transporters and later tankers (and due to our hopper loading method smaller cabs are better), so i’ve never seen the reason behind all these modern massive cabs, they make getting into tight spaces a headache and lack all round visibility, then every time you’re in an out the cab its like climbing a bloody wall.

Give me no nights out, a day cab with windows all round, a proper engine and a bloody non synchro manual box and i’m in me element, i’d much rather that now than the modern automated electronic crap i’m stuck in that gives not one morsel of lorry driving pleasure.

[carryfast]

gazsa401:
I never drove a Marathon but I did drive a Roadtrain
At the end of the day I went to work for good pay and conditions
I could of gone half a mile down the road and drove a F12 Globetrotter or a R Series 112 Scania for nearly half what I was earning
A lot of it is down to badge snobbery
I was more than happy driving British made lorries

How can it be badge snobbery to agree that the Brits could easily ultimately produce a better product when it mattered ‘if’ they’d have been allowed to use the right components at the right time.On that note it isn’t badge snobbery to suggest that the needless short sleeper Marathon let alone T45 provided an inferior working environment for the driver.Or that use of the TL12 let alone 71 series Detroit in the TM and arguably even the E290,as opposed to E320,all created. equally needlessly uncompetitive,less efficient,products v competitors like the F12.As did use of the 9 speed Fuller and silly under gearing in the SA.My point is the question,was that unarguable handicapping deliberate conspiracy or ■■■■ up.Bearing in mind that the latter is impossible to believe in the case of it affecting the whole industry from Bedford to Leyland.

[carryfast]

Juddian:
Ah Windrush the voice of sense and reason.

I never quite understood the yearning from so many drivers for these foreign motors, come the 80’s the Brits were singing, the cab itself never bothered me all that much, though the Sed Ack 401 was great improvement over the 400, both in cab interior but also sorted the steering and other things out.

Give me a proper ■■■■■■■■ not the L10 dear Lord wasn’t that a bloody gutless horror, coupled to an Eaton/Fuller of some sort (and 8 gears was plenty even with a high ratio axle), and a Rockeell final drive, and i was happy as larry.
They were proper driver’s lorries, gearboxes that did exactly as the driver wanted them too, engines big enough to cope happy to lug right down to stall revs and still pulling, geared high so you could take advantage of the ■■■■■■■ extraordinary pull at around 1000 rpm.
Thing is they were faster overall than the foreign lorries whilst still returning good fuel figures, and many of us got paid on what we did, and i like Gazsa only did it for the money, big lorry kudos can do one.

Much of my working life has been on car transporters and later tankers (and due to our hopper loading method smaller cabs are better), so i’ve never seen the reason behind all these modern massive cabs, they make getting into tight spaces a headache and lack all round visibility, then every time you’re in an out the cab its like climbing a bloody wall.

Give me no nights out, a day cab with windows all round, a proper engine and a bloody non synchro manual box and i’m in me element, i’d much rather that now than the modern automated electronic crap i’m stuck in that gives not one morsel of lorry driving pleasure.

The argument in this case is would you prefer the E320 to the E290 let alone a TL12.Or 13 speed Fuller or 9 speed to get the best fuel returns.Or the SA 400 cab to the short sleeper Marathon ?.While in the case of the SA they obviously didn’t even provide it with the required decent final drive ratio that you’re calling for either.

Bearing in mind that stopping well within time at the hotel of choice for essential nights out in many sectors of the industry wasn’t an option in the real world.While given the choice between zb synchro box but decent cab let alone engine of the F12 v the zb cab and engine of the Marathon I’d have taken the Volvo thanks even for less pay.Not because I wanted the badge but because even with the best will in the world the Marathon was an uncomfortable primitive piece of junk to actually work with especially in the case of having to do nights out with the thing.

[coomsey]

Juddian:
Ah Windrush the voice of sense and reason.

I never quite understood the yearning from so many drivers for these foreign motors, come the 80’s the Brits were singing, the cab itself never bothered me all that much, though the Sed Ack 401 was great improvement over the 400, both in cab interior but also sorted the steering and other things out.

Give me a proper ■■■■■■■■ not the L10 dear Lord wasn’t that a bloody gutless horror, coupled to an Eaton/Fuller of some sort (and 8 gears was plenty even with a high ratio axle), and a Rockeell final drive, and i was happy as larry.
They were proper driver’s lorries, gearboxes that did exactly as the driver wanted them too, engines big enough to cope happy to lug right down to stall revs and still pulling, geared high so you could take advantage of the ■■■■■■■ extraordinary pull at around 1000 rpm.
Thing is they were faster overall than the foreign lorries whilst still returning good fuel figures, and many of us got paid on what we did, and i like Gazsa only did it for the money, big lorry kudos can do one.

Much of my working life has been on car transporters and later tankers (and due to our hopper loading method smaller cabs are better), so i’ve never seen the reason behind all these modern massive cabs, they make getting into tight spaces a headache and lack all round visibility, then every time you’re in an out the cab its like climbing a bloody wall.

Give me no nights out, a day cab with windows all round, a proper engine and a bloody non synchro manual box and i’m in me element, i’d much rather that now than the modern automated electronic crap i’m stuck in that gives not one morsel of lorry driving pleasure.

I’m with you all the way on this one Juddian. Unless you’re on nights out why would you want a big cab? Why would you want to go to the passenger seat? Whats wrong with engine hump? I had 1/2cab Foden for a short while n Ergo for a good while both good cabs for vision. I had Marathon for 4/5 weeks as good as anything I’d driven before, warm good drive position n plenty of go in it money in the pocket.

[ramone]

Its horses for courses , hauliers buy what they require for their particular work , the problem now is theres less choice than there was 40 years ago so everythings gone the same way. Don’t forget this test is almost 40 years old when the E290 was rare and the E320 unheard of

[juddian]

CF, what are you on?

Final drive on my SA 401 with the E320 was as near bloody perfect as you could wish for, it would cruise all day long at 70mph @ 1100 rpm, it pulled like a train, was very good on fuel, what else could a lorry driver earning a crust and trying to get home want?

[carryfast]

Juddian:
CF, what are you on?

Final drive on my SA 401 with the E320 was as near bloody perfect as you could wish for, it would cruise all day long at 70mph @ 1100 rpm, it pulled like a train, was very good on fuel, what else could a lorry driver earning a crust and trying to get home want?

Check out the whole discussion.I’m making the case that the Brits were deliberately crippled to help the foreign competition owing to US and UK government geopolitics.But then ironically the trade media obviously had to make the road tests regarding the Brits look good so as not to derail the plan.Except in this case they went totally OTT with the bs to the point where the plan has been blown wide open if you want to look for it.

On that note read the spec of the offending SA 400 E290 road test offering.IE crippled by final drive gearing of 1,700 rpm at 52 mph. What do you think that did to the road speed v fuel consumption figures and thereby the overall earning’s figure.Probably why they had to drive the thing so slowly that the TL12 powered Marathon supposedly outran it on the test.

Although that still doesn’t explain how the Marathon supposedly also outran it on most of the hill sectors and more importantly also supposedly outran the F12 on numerous sectors. IE sandbagging so as not to show just how far ahead of us that the foreign competition was being deliberately allowed to get in the form of products like the F12.Bearing in mind that all the ingredients were actually available in 1978 to blow the Volvo out of the water with the E320 engine ( had the US chosen to let SA have it then ),13 speed Fuller and the type of final drive gearing which you’ve described.But that obviously wouldn’t have fitted the US and UK government’s geopolitics in which the foreign competition was always meant to win.

[juddian]

Carryfast:

Juddian:
C

On that note read the spec of the offending SA 400 E290 road test offering.IE crippled by final drive gearing of 1,700 rpm at 52 mph.

I had 2 previous SA 400’s, one with a 250 ■■■■■■■ and one with an E290, we had another pre E 290 ■■■■■■■ on the fleet, as i recall you had a job to get the ■■■■■■■ to rev above 1800 rpm, and all these lorries were capable of 75/80+mph, so i can only assume the road test final drive figure is either a misprint, or, and i had a Scania 110 so specked (flat out at 52), i wonder if the SA in question was a substitute for what should have been on test and specced as a low loader heavy?

In E320 form no 13 speed box was necessary, most of the time it could be driven in the top 6 of a straight 8 Roadranger even with way over the top final drive.

The govt didn’t need to hobble the UK lorry industry, though no successive govt of the last 50 years could be termed patriots (including Mrs T who preached supporting Brit industry whilst watching it die), indeed traitors in some cases.
The lorry industry was doing its own hobbling perfectly well, by rigidly avoiding 24hr service where the foreign makers and dealerships had seen the light, and won the battle not by a better product, because they weren’t, but on service and back up which is where re-sales are still won.
In the early 70s the Brits were still making lorries that were past their sell by date in 1965, the arrival of Scania and Volvo was a wake up call they sorely needed, but by the 80’s the Brits were up to speed.

A mistake in retrospect (though most proper drivers were happy with them) was the Brits also carried on with gearboxes requiring some nous right up to the end, where the euro’s had also seen the light that a new type of driver was coming through that had no interest in actually driving lorries, kudos bling and big shiny cabs with the right badge on the grill were ever more important, and the need for synchro boxes that were less shall we say demanding, and we know where that’s ended up, to autos where no driver skill or nous is required, and for the remaining drivers from the old days are sheer frustration to be stuck with.

What does annoy me from a driver’s perspective about this constant dumbing down is how it has been welcomed by so many drivers, who can’t see that when the job is made so easy that anyone can do, that’s exactly what happens, anyone can and does do it, oversubcribing leading to lower pay overall.

Going back to the road tests for a mo, we’ve all had good and bad versions of a particular lorry, where otherwise identical sister lorries in a fleet can be like chalk and cheese.
I know you’re a DAF from the 80’s man, i’ve had 2800 DKTD fitted with the back to front ZF splitter supposedly the downrated version that would in practice out accelerate and pass nearly everything on the road, two DKSE-eco versions, one of which pulled like a train the other wouldn’t pull you out of bed, never found the 3300 to be any better on the road than that original early DKTD…however there is no denying just how reliable all of them were and how well they held the road.

As for Volvo, overall underwhelmed would be my opinion of most (though can’t knock the reliability), but did have one cracker of a Volvo, a rare lorry and drag transporter with a FL12 380 low line chassis cab under the body, in many ways though not physically this stood head and shoulders above every other car transporter i’ve had, it could be thrown around with abandon was totally reliable and pulled amazingly well and it plowed through heavy snow with never a hint of bogging down.

Sorry it got so off topic lads.

[gingerfold]

I’ve read all the posts over the last few days including those "trashing " the Marathon and The T45 engine. I refer all posters to the title of the Thread and its question mark. It’s my contention that the Marathon did what it had to do as a shoe-string budget stop gap model. Despite what one or two others might think, who obviously never drove anything with a TL12 engine powering it, I also contend that the TL12 proved itself as a fine engine. How anyone who never experienced one can condemn it is frankly beyond my comprehension. Also, the highest gearing available in a Marathon gave 74 mph, so they were fast, absolutely no doubt about that.

Whilst comparative road tests are interesting they have never influenced any serious truck purchaser in their decision making process. There are far too many other factors involved when purchasing decisions are being made.

Juddian talks sense as a driver with many years of experience on the road. I’m surprised that DEAN made a comment to the effect that “every driver wanted to drive a Scania or Volvo”. Sorry DEAN, patently untrue. Since the 1970s I have run fleets and managed drivers and the vast majority of drivers I have employed and managed (the numbers must be almost 1,000) have been interested only in the money on the payslip at the end of the week. Some badge snobs might disagree, but I have interviewed only a tiny minority of drivers who were remotely interested in what make of truck they would be driving. The same holds true today as it did 40 years ago and for all the years in between. In my Rank Hovis and Spillers Milling years the large fleets of both companies were 100% British made. There wasn’t any problem recruiting or retaining drivers for the simple reason they were on top wages, money is what motivates 99% of drivers. You only need to read the Professional Drivers’ Forum on TNUK.

I think that this is an interesting discussion with the usual range of comments and posts that adds to the overall knowledge of the subject.

[chris_webb]

gingerfold:
I’ve read all the posts over the last few days including those "trashing " the Marathon and The T45 engine. I refer all posters to the title of the Thread and its question mark. It’s my contention that the Marathon did what it had to do as a shoe-string budget stop gap model. Despite what one or two others might think, who obviously never drove anything with a TL12 engine powering it, I also contend that the TL12 proved itself as a fine engine. How anyone who never experienced one can condemn it is frankly beyond my comprehension. Also, the highest gearing available in a Marathon gave 74 mph, so they were fast, absolutely no doubt about that.

Whilst comparative road tests are interesting they have never influenced any serious truck purchaser in their decision making process. There are far too many other factors involved when purchasing decisions are being made.

Juddian talks sense as a driver with many years of experience on the road. I’m surprised that DEAN made a comment to the effect that “every driver wanted to drive a Scania or Volvo”. Sorry DEAN, patently untrue. Since the 1970s I have run fleets and managed drivers and the vast majority of drivers I have employed and managed (the numbers must be almost 1,000) have been interested only in the money on the payslip at the end of the week. Some badge snobs might disagree, but I have interviewed only a tiny minority of drivers who were remotely interested in what make of truck they would be driving. The same holds true today as it did 40 years ago and for all the years in between. In my Rank Hovis and Spillers Milling years the large fleets of both companies were 100% British made. There wasn’t any problem recruiting or retaining drivers for the simple reason they were on top wages, money is what motivates 99% of drivers. You only need to read the Professional Drivers’ Forum on TNUK.

I think that this is an interesting discussion with the usual range of comments and posts that adds to the overall knowledge of the subject.

Very true Graham. A E Evans ran some old tackle but it was well-maintained and drivers seldom left because the money was good,bottom line is what counts. I remember one lad got fed up with driving AEC MK3s,early 70s,and got chance of a job with a firm running Volvos,I can’t remember who it was,out Doncaster way IIRC. It wasn’t long before he was asking for his old job back at Sheffield after having a taste of excessive hours,Volvo or no Volvo.
It was very rare that anybody who left got his old job back at Sheffield and also at Barking but this lad was lucky,manager gave him his job back because he was a good worker and tidy with it.
And I’ve made my point clear about Marathons,when I was upgraded to a brand new TL12 in September 1976 I was most impressed to put it mildly,it earned me a lot of money and apart from braking problems that were eventually sorted I had no bother with it.Happy days.

[ramone]

Chris Webb:

gingerfold:
I’ve read all the posts over the last few days including those "trashing " the Marathon and The T45 engine. I refer all posters to the title of the Thread and its question mark. It’s my contention that the Marathon did what it had to do as a shoe-string budget stop gap model. Despite what one or two others might think, who obviously never drove anything with a TL12 engine powering it, I also contend that the TL12 proved itself as a fine engine. How anyone who never experienced one can condemn it is frankly beyond my comprehension. Also, the highest gearing available in a Marathon gave 74 mph, so they were fast, absolutely no doubt about that.

Whilst comparative road tests are interesting they have never influenced any serious truck purchaser in their decision making process. There are far too many other factors involved when purchasing decisions are being made.

Juddian talks sense as a driver with many years of experience on the road. I’m surprised that DEAN made a comment to the effect that “every driver wanted to drive a Scania or Volvo”. Sorry DEAN, patently untrue. Since the 1970s I have run fleets and managed drivers and the vast majority of drivers I have employed and managed (the numbers must be almost 1,000) have been interested only in the money on the payslip at the end of the week. Some badge snobs might disagree, but I have interviewed only a tiny minority of drivers who were remotely interested in what make of truck they would be driving. The same holds true today as it did 40 years ago and for all the years in between. In my Rank Hovis and Spillers Milling years the large fleets of both companies were 100% British made. There wasn’t any problem recruiting or retaining drivers for the simple reason they were on top wages, money is what motivates 99% of drivers. You only need to read the Professional Drivers’ Forum on TNUK.

I think that this is an interesting discussion with the usual range of comments and posts that adds to the overall knowledge of the subject.

Very true Graham. A E Evans ran some old tackle but it was well-maintained and drivers seldom left because the money was good,bottom line is what counts. I remember one lad got fed up with driving AEC MK3s,early 70s,and got chance of a job with a firm running Volvos,I can’t remember who it was,out Doncaster way IIRC. It wasn’t long before he was asking for his old job back at Sheffield after having a taste of excessive hours,Volvo or no Volvo.
It was very rare that anybody who left got his old job back at Sheffield and also at Barking but this lad was lucky,manager gave him his job back because he was a good worker and tidy with it.
And I’ve made my point clear about Marathons,when I was upgraded to a brand new TL12 in September 1976 I was most impressed to put it mildly,it earned me a lot of money and apart from braking problems that were eventually sorted I had no bother with it.Happy days.

2 sensible posts in what is turning into another ruined thread

[dodgy_permit]

At the time I used to read those Road Test reports & wonder why none of the testers never mentioned how a good many UK vehicles had those illogical wiper setups installed.
Mounted over the top of the screen the wipers “pull” the rain “up” to the top where it then runs straight back down onto the area that has just been cleared ?

[frankydobo]

Ramone wrote; 2 sensible posts in what is turning into another ruined thread
Why I stopped reading it a few pages back once the experts get involved with their facts and figures and quote from their vast experience then I switch off, shame because these threads start off interesting. Franky.

[carryfast]

Juddian:

Carryfast:
On that note read the spec of the offending SA 400 E290 road test offering.IE crippled by final drive gearing of 1,700 rpm at 52 mph.

I had 2 previous SA 400’s, one with a 250 ■■■■■■■ and one with an E290, we had another pre E 290 ■■■■■■■ on the fleet, as i recall you had a job to get the ■■■■■■■ to rev above 1800 rpm, and all these lorries were capable of 75/80+mph, so i can only assume the road test final drive figure is either a misprint, or, and i had a Scania 110 so specked (flat out at 52), i wonder if the SA in question was a substitute for what should have been on test and specced as a low loader heavy?

The govt didn’t need to hobble the UK lorry industry, though no successive govt of the last 50 years could be termed patriots (including Mrs T who preached supporting Brit industry whilst watching it die), indeed traitors in some cases.

To be fair the article seems a bit too detailed concerning that gearing spec and the truck for it to have been ‘a misprint’ going on to say that it did actually affect the speed figures to a degree.Which then leaves the questions as to how did it also supposedly end up being beaten by the Marathon in the hills having a considerable torque advantage.Let alone the question how did the Marathon also supposedly outrun the F12.On that note yes I was totally underwhelmed by the F10 v the DAF 2800 while the same could be said for the T45 at least in short sleeper TL12 form.But the F12 really was an extremely formidable competitor and the Brits did themselves no favours by failing to meet that challenge head on as soon as it hit the road in 1978 in addition to the trade press obviously talking down the Volvo to big up the zb Leyland competition.The big question then being why when all the necessary ingredients were there waiting to do the job in the parts bins ( if ) we’d have been allowed to use them.

[carryfast]

gingerfold:
I’ve read all the posts over the last few days including those "trashing " the Marathon and The T45 engine. I refer all posters to the title of the Thread and its question mark. It’s my contention that the Marathon did what it had to do as a shoe-string budget stop gap model. Despite what one or two others might think, who obviously never drove anything with a TL12 engine powering it, I also contend that the TL12 proved itself as a fine engine. How anyone who never experienced one can condemn it is frankly beyond my comprehension. Also, the highest gearing available in a Marathon gave 74 mph, so they were fast, absolutely no doubt about that.

Whilst comparative road tests are interesting they have never influenced any serious truck purchaser in their decision making process. There are far too many other factors involved when purchasing decisions are being made.

Juddian talks sense as a driver with many years of experience on the road. I’m surprised that DEAN made a comment to the effect that “every driver wanted to drive a Scania or Volvo”. Sorry DEAN, patently untrue. Since the 1970s I have run fleets and managed drivers and the vast majority of drivers I have employed and managed (the numbers must be almost 1,000) have been interested only in the money on the payslip at the end of the week. Some badge snobs might disagree, but I have interviewed only a tiny minority of drivers who were remotely interested in what make of truck they would be driving. The same holds true today as it did 40 years ago and for all the years in between. In my Rank Hovis and Spillers Milling years the large fleets of both companies were 100% British made. There wasn’t any problem recruiting or retaining drivers for the simple reason they were on top wages, money is what motivates 99% of drivers. You only need to read the Professional Drivers’ Forum on TNUK.

I think that this is an interesting discussion with the usual range of comments and posts that adds to the overall knowledge of the subject.

Just to clarify as I said I’ve actually been unlucky enough to drive the Marathon in short cab sleeper form ironically having gone onto that after being laid off temporarily from my previous job regularly driving a 1970’s reg DAF 2800.Even more ironically the DAF being a trunking job but the Marathon used for nights out doing general haulage. I also rotated the Marathon with an F10.I’ve also driven the T45 in both TL12 and ■■■■■■■ form both types inherited by us during the takeover of Carswells.What I will say is that the TL12 made a lovely Jag like noise echoing through the villages along the A505 doing the Bury St Edmunds night trunk although I doubt if the residents were as pleased. But the ■■■■■■■ pulled better in any gear you put it in including top.

However the Marathon was a like taking a knife to a gun fight just in the case of the F10 let alone the might of the F12.In which case there’s no way that you can possibly justify that heap of junk being a worthy competitor to the best of the foreign competition heading our way in the late 1970’s.F88 maybe ‘if’ anyone could put up with that ridiculous small steering wheel ( not me ).So by the late 1970’s not a case of nearly it wasn’t even close and obviously taking the idea of self delusion to the extreme ( more like downright conspiracy to help the foreign competition ) to suggest that it was.

[carryfast]

ramone:
2 sensible posts in what is turning into another ruined thread

You mean you don’t want to hear anything that doesn’t agree with your obvious delusional fan boy views of what was one of the worst heaps of junk in the day and that helped to take the Brits out.Just as it had been planned to do by the powers that be.

[erf-ngc-european]

gingerfold:
I’ve read all the posts over the last few days including those "trashing " the Marathon and The T45 engine. I refer all posters to the title of the Thread and its question mark. It’s my contention that the Marathon did what it had to do as a shoe-string budget stop gap model. Despite what one or two others might think, who obviously never drove anything with a TL12 engine powering it, I also contend that the TL12 proved itself as a fine engine. How anyone who never experienced one can condemn it is frankly beyond my comprehension. Also, the highest gearing available in a Marathon gave 74 mph, so they were fast, absolutely no doubt about that.

Whilst comparative road tests are interesting they have never influenced any serious truck purchaser in their decision making process. There are far too many other factors involved when purchasing decisions are being made.

Juddian talks sense as a driver with many years of experience on the road. I’m surprised that DEAN made a comment to the effect that “every driver wanted to drive a Scania or Volvo”. Sorry DEAN, patently untrue. Since the 1970s I have run fleets and managed drivers and the vast majority of drivers I have employed and managed (the numbers must be almost 1,000) have been interested only in the money on the payslip at the end of the week. Some badge snobs might disagree, but I have interviewed only a tiny minority of drivers who were remotely interested in what make of truck they would be driving. The same holds true today as it did 40 years ago and for all the years in between. In my Rank Hovis and Spillers Milling years the large fleets of both companies were 100% British made. There wasn’t any problem recruiting or retaining drivers for the simple reason they were on top wages, money is what motivates 99% of drivers. You only need to read the Professional Drivers’ Forum on TNUK.

I think that this is an interesting discussion with the usual range of comments and posts that adds to the overall knowledge of the subject.

A refreshingly excellent post. Robert