Legalities of Running an Artic Unit for Private Use

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

Hi, my first post on the forum.
Does anyone know the legalities of running an artic unit for private use or does/has anyone actually run an artic unit on this basis?
For example, would the fifth wheel need to be removed?
global.

2

If it’s over 7.5t you’ll need a tachograph despite being private use.

3

can you define own use ■■
what would you be useing it for ?

4

Used in the same way as a car for instance!
global.

5

Thanks for your replies.
For anyone who is interested this is what I have found out since posting:

  1. Would need a C licence if plated over 7.5 ton.
  2. Would need a tacho over 7.5 ton for purposes of EU regulations. (counting towards weekly hours for tacho regulations and WTD)
  3. Removal of fifth wheel plate is a very old and long gone law.

Please feel free to copy and paste and add any other legalities you know about.
Thank’s.
global.

6

global:
Thanks for your replies.
For anyone who is interested this is what I have found out since posting:

  1. Would need a C licence if plated over 7.5 ton.
    **2. Would need a tacho over 7.5 ton for purposes of EU regulations. (counting towards weekly hours for tacho regulations and WTD)**3. Removal of fifth wheel plate is a very old and long gone law.

Please feel free to copy and paste and add any other legalities you know about.
Thank’s.
global.

I would question this, yes the vehicle has to have a tacograph fitted but if for private use, does not require a chart to be inserted, i use to do driver training, and never use to insert a new card, vosa stopped us and never had a problem, truck’s were taxed as private, and how can it count towards driving time and wtd if it’s a private vehicle ■■ :unamused:

7

steadymabo:
I would question this, yes the vehicle has to have a tacograph fitted but if for private use, does not require a chart to be inserted, i use to do driver training, and never use to insert a new card, vosa stopped us and never had a problem, truck’s were taxed as private, and how can it count towards driving time and wtd if it’s a private vehicle ■■ :unamused:

They changed the rules a few years ago and effectively did away with the “private use” exemption on anything over 7.5t.

Paul

8

Thanks all for your input.
Others have emailed to indicate the following for those interested:
LGV training vehicles over 7.5 tonnes have an EU regulations exemption if they are being used for licence aquisition or dcpc training.

  1. Would need a C licence if plated over 7.5 ton.
  2. Would need a tacho over 7.5 ton for purposes of EU regulations. (counting towards weekly hours for tacho regulations and WTD)
  3. Removal of fifth wheel plate is a very old and long gone law.
  4. They changed the rules a few years ago and effectively did away with the “private use” exemption on anything over 7.5t.

Please feel free to copy and paste and add any other legalities you know about or indeed debate the points above.
Thank’s.
global.

9

repton:

steadymabo:
I would question this, yes the vehicle has to have a tacograph fitted but if for private use, does not require a chart to be inserted, i use to do driver training, and never use to insert a new card, vosa stopped us and never had a problem, truck’s were taxed as private, and how can it count towards driving time and wtd if it’s a private vehicle ■■ :unamused:

They changed the rules a few years ago and effectively did away with the “private use” exemption on anything over 7.5t.

Paul

And at the same time the DFT released a circular to the FTA to say a driver who does not carry goods in the course of his employmet will be exempt from and out of scope of the EU regs.

10

I think all your answers are in an old 2009 copy of Horse and Hound. VOSA say Neigh Lad :wink:

horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/278245.html

In the 561/2006 exemptions it mentions carrying livestock to market within a 50km radius, could you borrow a live chicken? :stuck_out_tongue:

And at the same time there is a lesson of not what to say to a VOSA inspector or the TC :laughing:

horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/300133.html

11

steadymabo:
i use to do driver training, and never use to insert a new card

There’s a specific exemption for a vehicle used for training.

12

As far as I’m aware the EU regulations only cover vehicles used for the carriage of goods, if a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes is used for private use whilst carrying goods then it comes in-scope of EU regulations and a tachograph should be used.

As far as I’m aware a vehicle that never carries goods as is being discussed here is not bound by the EU regulations nor the Domestic regulations so no tachograph or log sheet is needed.

Now does the carriage of the weeks shopping constitute the carriage of goods in a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes is another question ?

I would advise you to contact VOSA and get this in writing to cover your own back :wink:

13

tachograph:
As far as I’m aware the EU regulations only cover vehicles used for the carriage of goods

No, it’s goods vehicles over 3.5t regardless of whether they carry goods or not.

14

mrpj:

tachograph:
As far as I’m aware the EU regulations only cover vehicles used for the carriage of goods

No, it’s goods vehicles over 3.5t regardless of whether they carry goods or not.

I would have to question that as Article 1 of (EC) 561/2006 says:

This Regulation lays down rules on driving times, breaks and
rest periods for drivers engaged in the carriage of goods and
passengers by road in order to harmonise the conditions of
competition between modes of inland transport, especially
with regard to the road sector, and to improve working
conditions and road safety. This Regulation also aims to
promote improved monitoring and enforcement practices by
Member States and improved working practices in the road
transport industry.

Article 2 says:

  1. This Regulation shall apply to the carriage by road:
    (a) of goods where the maximum permissible mass of the
    vehicle, including any trailer, or semi-trailer, exceeds
    3,5 tonnes, or
    (b) of passengers by vehicles which are constructed or
    permanently adapted for carrying more than nine
    persons including the driver, and are intended for that
    purpose.
15

Don’t forget you need an artic licence to drive it. :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

16

global:
Others have emailed to indicate the following for those interested:
LGV training vehicles over 7.5 tonnes have an EU regulations exemption if they are being used for licence aquisition or dcpc training.

  1. Would need a C licence if plated over 7.5 ton.
  2. Would need a tacho over 7.5 ton for purposes of EU regulations. (counting towards weekly hours for tacho regulations and WTD)
  3. Removal of fifth wheel plate is a very old and long gone law.
  4. They changed the rules a few years ago and effectively did away with the “private use” exemption on anything over 7.5t.

To be perfectly honest mate if the emails were unsolicited emails from Trucknet-UK members I’d tend to treat them as spam.

Matters such as this should be answered on the facts as they are in the regulations, if the answers you’ve been given by email can be backed up from the regulations why would someone not post openly and share the information with us all rather than answering by email ?

It’s certainly true that training vehicles are exempt from the EU regulations and this can be backed up by reading the regs, but I think you should ask where the information in 2. and 4. came from.

Whilst we may all disagree on the interpretation of the regulations sometimes I see no reason why questions like this would not be discussed openly if people are genuinely interested in finding the correct answer.

By the way, welcome to Trucknet-UK :wink:

17

tachograph:

global:
Others have emailed to indicate the following for those interested:
LGV training vehicles over 7.5 tonnes have an EU regulations exemption if they are being used for licence aquisition or dcpc training.

  1. Would need a C licence if plated over 7.5 ton.
  2. Would need a tacho over 7.5 ton for purposes of EU regulations. (counting towards weekly hours for tacho regulations and WTD)
  3. Removal of fifth wheel plate is a very old and long gone law.
  4. They changed the rules a few years ago and effectively did away with the “private use” exemption on anything over 7.5t.

To be perfectly honest mate if the emails were unsolicited emails from Trucknet-UK members I’d tend to treat them as spam.

Matters such as this should be answered on the facts as they are in the regulations, if the answers you’ve been given by email can be backed up from the regulations why would someone not post openly and share the information with us all rather than answering by email ?

It’s certainly true that training vehicles are exempt from the EU regulations and this can be backed up by reading the regs, but I think you should ask where the information in 2. and 4. came from.

Whilst we may all disagree on the interpretation of the regulations sometimes I see no reason why questions like this would not be discussed openly if people are genuinely interested in finding the correct answer.

By the way, welcome to Trucknet-UK :wink:

Were any of these emails from a member called ROG by any chance? :open_mouth:

18

tachograph:
As far as I’m aware the EU regulations only cover vehicles used for the carriage of goods, if a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes is used for private use whilst carrying goods then it comes in-scope of EU regulations and a tachograph should be used.

As far as I’m aware a vehicle that never carries goods as is being discussed here is not bound by the EU regulations nor the Domestic regulations so no tachograph or log sheet is needed.
Now does the carriage of the weeks shopping constitute the carriage of goods in a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes is another question ?

I would advise you to contact VOSA and get this in writing to cover your own back :wink:

The way i understand it is if the vehicle is taxed and insured as private, and not used for hire or reward then tacograph and wtd regs dont apply, if you think about it your car is a private vehicle, so going from a to b in a car is no different in a private hgv.

Basicly the same as you put Tachograph :laughing: :laughing:

19

steadymabo:

tachograph:
As far as I’m aware the EU regulations only cover vehicles used for the carriage of goods, if a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes is used for private use whilst carrying goods then it comes in-scope of EU regulations and a tachograph should be used.

As far as I’m aware a vehicle that never carries goods as is being discussed here is not bound by the EU regulations nor the Domestic regulations so no tachograph or log sheet is needed.
Now does the carriage of the weeks shopping constitute the carriage of goods in a vehicle over 7.5 tonnes is another question ?

I would advise you to contact VOSA and get this in writing to cover your own back :wink:

The way i understand it is if the vehicle is taxed and insured as private, and not used for hire or reward then tacograph and wtd regs dont apply, if you think about it your car is a private vehicle, so going from a to b in a car is no different in a private hgv.

Basicly the same as you put Tachograph :laughing: :laughing:

I agree except that the part about “for hire or reward” doesn’t apply for the EU regulations, for the EU regulations it’s all about whether or not the vehicle is used to carry goods regardless of whether or not you get paid or rewarded for carrying them :wink:

20

tachograph:
Article 2 says:

  1. This Regulation shall apply to the carriage by road:
    (a) of goods where the maximum permissible mass of the
    vehicle, including any trailer, or semi-trailer, exceeds
    3,5 tonnes, or
    (b) of passengers by vehicles which are constructed or
    permanently adapted for carrying more than nine
    persons including the driver, and are intended for that
    purpose.

Fair enough, it’s just here it states “whether used privately or commercially” (page 6 and flowchart on 7)

dft.gov.uk/pgr/freight/road/ … sgoods.pdf