It's a shame!

[newmercman]

F-reds:
Like others I have no interest in weighing in on the debate per se, as I have no allegiance to any trainer, no loyalty from a pass, or anything like that.

BUT to the OP

If you accept the fact the forum has become sponsored for commercial reasons(and is unlikely to change backwards in a hurry). Then you also have to accept the fact the only way to increase the impartiality of the views presented to trainees questions, is for you and all the other trainers to contribute more than you are now.

You can’t have your cake and eat it surely? It’s either an impartial tool you all help contribute to(although only one provider is allowed to advertise openly) or its PS only zone and you guys don’t complain about the fact.

It’s not as if someone who has the username “Tockwith Training”(used purely because it’s the only one I can remember) isn’t exactly hard to find on the Internet if you liked what he had to say on a particular topic, and go and seek your training with them is it?

^this^

[paulnowak]

I have my licences, so unless I decide to renew my ADR, I have no reason to seek the services of a trainer (our cpc is done in-house)

However, if I have a question, I have no issue with sending Pete a PM. He always responds promptly and concisely.

I used another training company local to me, and a friend of mine had intended to use them as well, but I felt they’d given them some duff information, so I ran it by Pete, and he put me straight.

The End, Pete has never had a bean of my hard earned, and will more than likely never see a bean of my mates’.

In fact, I posted up many moons ago that I was considering going for a class 1 job, despite not having even sat in an artic for nearly 2.5 years.

It was probably Pete’s word that I took on board, and I’ve been there ever since.

Just in case anyone wanted the opinion of a random occasional user.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ghostrider17]

simcor:

dieseldog999:
its still annoying every time smythe posts about anything he can remotely post an answer on as its invariably just another chance to advertise…if it was me,on principle,id go elsewhere.i constantly buy stuff on ebay,but on principle,then I don’t buy from anyone with 5000 listings for a h4 bulb to suit every single car ever made etc…the guy that don’t have to ram his co image into your face might just be as good or cost effective as the guy that don’t,on the basis of all the backpage ads for subbies work are generally just total pish.theres obviously 2 sides to anything with opinions differing,hence its a forum.

He pays for the privilege to do so why shouldn’t he?

The guy pays money to the forum to advertise his business for goodness sake, the only people who seem unhappy about it are the ones that also runs businesses that don’t pay and want to be able to do so without paying.

I chose to go with PSTT because they were local to me and have a good reputation and the facilities seemed excellent. They were everything I expected after seeing the place and hearing the recommendations from others.

Agreed. I trained with PSTT too,excellent trainers and not once did i feel pressured or talked into going with them. They suited my needs perfectly and this was after a few assessment drives with other training providers.

[dieseldave]

ALEX MCARA:

dieseldave:

ALEX MCARA:
I feel I must point out …

Hi Alex,

I’ve moved your topic to the Feedback Forum for discussion because the main thrust of it is TN’s treatment of a perceived issue, which is more of a ‘feedback’ thing.

DieselDave,

I beg to differ my “thrust” was most definitely not regarding Trucknet’s treatment of a perceived issue it was purely my opinion on what I have always regarded as tremendous resource for new or aspiring drivers, …

Hi Alex,

The beauty of forums is that we can beg to differ, and I’m begging to differ with you.

Firstly, you started a new topic in the Newbies’ Forum, and there’s absolutely no problem with that because your opinion is as valid as the next man’s.

In my opinion, your OP is feedback, here’s how I got there:

Your first line:
I feel I must point out how disappointed in the interaction between questions posed and responded to I have become since this forum has appointed it’s sponsor.

Which is a direct comment on something that the TN management have decided, and there’s absolutely no problem with you saying so.
However, it IS feedback, so this is a more appropriate forum for that discussion.

However, you did provide further clues that convinced me further:

ALEX MCARA:
This has basically become a sales platform for Peter Smythe’s Driving School, while I acknowledge the help and advice that he has given over the period of his involvement before becoming the forum sponsor the trainers that used to chime in with advice for the (allegedly) main focus here the prospective trainees have all but disappeared due to their advice now being interpreted as self promotion and or a sales pitch.

Alex, this is a perfectly valid opinion, but the red part is feedback in that it comments on how the owners of TN interpret something.
FYI, the Mod/Admin Team do make a clear distinction between ‘advice’ and ‘advertising.’

ALEX MCARA:
While I appreciate the commercial need for this forum to exist I do consider it’s current methodology to be very detrimental to the people that are on here to get the advice and mentoring that they can require.

Again, a very direct comment on the way that the forum operates, which you are perfectly entitled to comment upon.
(But, it IS a feedback-type comment.)

ALEX MCARA:
I understand that posting this comment will be met with many and varied opinions and I am ready to stand by my comments as I sincerely feel that this is a great resource for new and or prospective trainees but this is being heavily diluted by the current format and rules.

Again Alex, there’s no problem with what you’ve said or the way that you’ve said it, or your sincerity.
Let’s be fair though Alex… The part that I’ve made red is feedback in anybody’s book.

ALEX MCARA:
I guess this is what I should have expected in this new era, all I was trying to do was state my opinion of how things seem to be on here these days, but this move to the feedback forum in my opinion is an attempt at hiding anyone who dares to make a perceived derisory or derogatory remark regarding the forum.

My title seems to be quite appropriate now the decision to move the thread has been taken.

Now this is where I beg to differ with your opinion.
I’ve no idea what you “should have expected in this new era” (or even quite what you mean by that) but there is no attempt at hiding anything, I clearly left the ‘moved post’ icon in the Newbies’ Forum to indicate (to everybody) that I’ve moved the topic.
The part I’ve made red in this last quote is most definitely feedback, and it says so itself.
Even if readers/posters don’t browse the Newbies’ Forum, they can still find and comment on your OP in here, so your OP has slightly more exposure than normal.
Your post and its content are not perceived as “derisory or derogatory,” and just for clarity IT IS completely within forum rules, hence this very discussion.
However, I (still) do perceive your OP as feedback so my decision is that it’s staying here for discussion because it’s completely off-topic in the Newbies’ Forum as per the stated purpose of each forum on the main index page.

[49er]

Simcor, i doubt that you would have answered to this post had it been any other trainer other than the one who took you under his wing, seeing that you have a conflict of interest just undermines your reply …

I have no qualms with Peter, good luck to him is what i say …

[nick2008]

Jezzzzzz get a life. The bloke gives good advice pays for advertising offers discount at Christmas as a gift and discounts when appropriate.

You on the other hand Alex have posted before this thread very little which probably shows you have little to offer or nothing at all .

So what’s the real beef ?

[simcor]

49er:
Simcor, i doubt that you would have answered to this post had it been any other trainer other than the one who took you under his wing, seeing that you have a conflict of interest just undermines your reply …

I have no qualms with Peter, good luck to him is what i say …

I would say exactly the same as I have said here if it was another trainer who was the forum sponsor apart from the obvious parts about me using them for my training. Whether it is PSTT as the sponsor or ■■■■ Turpin HGV Training, the fact is they pay to advertise a simple fact that some people are unable to grasp.

How exactly has Peter took me under his wing? They provided me a service for which I paid for.

His business provided me a service and provided me with, in my opinion an excellent service and because of that I recommend them.

[rikki-uk]

PSTT has been a long time sponsor of this website. It is a simple fact that without sponsors like PSTT this site would have been closed years ago. All those who use this site for free should thank the sponsors. With regard to the New drivers forum specifically: PSTT I believe have been generous in allowing other trainers to put across their points of view, but it is unrealistic to expect any businessman to pay for a forum and allow his competitors to gain all the same benefits for free.

I have long advocated more trainers coming on board as co-sponsors of the forum however many are reluctant to do so. However I do believe that discussions are ongoing to bring on board more trainers as co-sponsors and hope to announce something on this soon. Each sponsor will have there own “stickied” thread to announce their news and offers and will be permitted to promote their products/training in relevant threads posted by members.

Training companies that are not sponsors are of course still welcome to join in discussions and offer advice, what they will not be able to do is take advantage of the promotion and advertising opportunities on the public forum. They of course still have the option of contacting members via Private message.

This strikes me as a fair balance between those paying to keep the site on-line and running and those who sincerely wish to help and advise new entrants to the industry without becoming a sponsor.

It should be noted that RTM has been approached many times by some of the less desirable elements of the training industry (brokers) . many offering hefty sums to sponsor/advertise on TruckNet - as a matter of policy we do not accept advertising from them, and we block their Google adverts from appearing on here when we spot them, as we do not believe promoting such business’s is in the best interest of the members here.

there are various marketing opportunities throughout the TruckNet site and across the RTM portfolio. if any trainer wishes to explore these they can contact Barnaby.Goodman-Smith@roadtransport.com

[dieseldave]

nick2008:
So what’s the real beef ?

IMHO, that’s a very good question.

[elmet_training]

So my turn…

TBH as a trainer I agree with Alex’s comments regarding how this forum has lost several trainers over the last few years due to the introduction of only one forum sponsor but can’t blame Peter as he is a BUSINESS man after all.

However let me just tell everyone that I had a phone call from one of the admin team approx 2 months ago to ask me if I would be prepared to sponsor this forum as well which I’m very interested but depends on price to see if it’s a viable option.

I also mentioned that IMO it would be a good idea to recruit good trainers from different parts of the country so it would give members choices of good trainers local to them.

BTW I’ve had no contact since then, which begs the question is it a closed shop?

It would be nice if trainers and the admin team could work together to make this a bigger and better site for everyone concerned.

Paul

[dieseldave]

elmet training:
… which begs the question is it a closed shop?

Hi Paul,

Rikki has answered above, so all I can add is… please be patient a bit longer, because I know that this is currently being discussed at a very senior level.

As usual though, it is completely open to any and all Training Providers to comment or offer advice (if they wish to) at any time as long as forum rules are respected and it goes in the appropriate forum.

There haven’t been any problems with this topic so far, (not even a single swear word! ) so I’d like to thank all posters for the manner of their posts, even though it’s a potentially thorny subject.

Thanks guys!!

Oh sorry, I forgot these…

[reef]

dieseldave:
Oh sorry, I forgot these…

[zb] you!!

[orc]

Publicity does not have to equate to sponsorship.

There are several training company representatives here who post in the forums and are therefore building their reputations by the content of their posts. This costs them nothing. If more of the trainers posted more frequently and helped support new drivers as a service to this community, without any thinly disguised marketing stunts, I’m sure they would pick up lots of regional business as a result. Helpful and friendly people stand out, in just the same way that rude, confrontational trolls tend to. We know who they are, and we know who we would like to be doing business with.

[paul_pstt]

I suppose I’d better respond otherwise folks will think I’m not interested - and nothing could be further from the truth!

To those who wish to moan about my participation on the forum, I would mention that I was a very active contributor for way over 3 years before getting involved in sponsoring the forum. It came about as I got a little “up front” about my services and it was put to me that perhaps I should pay for the privilege. My not inconsiderable financial contribution to the forum was much appreciated at the time and, I believe, continues to be welcome.

I am aware of discussions leading to other training providers co-sponsoring the forum. This may or may not turn out to be a good thing for the users. Currently, I spend IRO 2 or 3 hours EVERY day working on my contributions, pm’s etc etc. Everyone knows I will do anything legal to secure someone’s work - I am in business after all and the profit from that pays for the sponsorship. But I wonder if folks, including the new co-sponsors, have the slightest idea how much time is spent, completely free of charge, helping candidates through training they have already booked elsewhere. I spend hours and hours explaining different topics because the forum user has been unwise in their choice of trainer. I could turn round and say “hard luck”. But I never have and I’m not going to start now.

I’m fascinated to see how this pans out. I have an open mind. I will still be here answering folks’ questions for no financial gain. I would like to think that the new co-sponsors will be checking Trucknet every few minutes every evening and giving help to others. Whether that actually happens remains to be seen.

The fact is that these trainers currently contribute next to nothing to the forum so far as advice and help goes. Occasionally I get a slagging because I happen to be the sponsor. Doesn’t keep me awake at night though!

I don’t expect to loose a fantastic amount of work by this new deal as I still rely primarily on word of mouth. Any business should know that this is the finest advertising available. So, in that sense, I’m not bothered unduly.

They will, of course, be able to advertise in the same way that I currently do. I hope that offers etc are crystal clear in the same way that mine always are. And, in any event, it’s highly unlikely that I’ll be beaten on quality, facilities, service and possibly price.

Let’s see what happens.

Pete

[reef]

I notice he ignored the REAL issue!!

Those bloody smilies!!!

[paul_pstt]

Not apologising!! It’s a reflection of my happy nature

Pete

[elmet_training]

Just for the record I haven’t been included in the new sponsorship deal at present but this could possibly change in the future, I was given another option but TBH I don’t think it would be viable bearing in mind I’m only a small company.

I would like to wish the new sponsors all the best and hope they will contribute to this forum as actively as Peter and make this site a better source for the newbie drivers.

Paul

Ps I will keep voicing my opinions as a member and training provider but be selective in my words as not to step on the paying sponsors toes

[paul_pstt]

Paul, you have made a valuable contribution with help and advice IMO. And, whilst we don’t always agree, I respect your standards and integrity. I would far rather the forum be occupied by folks offering genuine, knowledgeable help and advice than wasting time slagging other trainers off - especially if I’m on the wrong end of it!!

Pete

[rikki-uk]

BTW I’ve had no contact since then, which begs the question is it a closed shop?

There is no closed shop, RTM doesn’t do hard sell they approach with a proposal, and follow up a few days later, if there is not a positive response they leave it. I have spoken to Sales today to clarify, and a number of trainers were approached , and received follow up call, those that responded positively have been made an offer, those that chose not to respond have not been chased or hassled. Its not our way. I am not sure what else is expected.

I do hope that all trainers take advantage of the forum to help new entrants to the industry - if being able to promote their own business without being a sponsor is a prerequisite to helping new drivers then I am sure folks will make their own opinion.

AS said above there is plenty of opportunity for trainers to provide input and advice to the forum users without being a sponsor, the only thing stopping that is the reluctance of the trainers to post

[elmet_training]

Peter Smythe:
And, whilst we don’t always agree,

Pete

And this is what makes this forum great for newbies with the difference of opinions from especially trainers from time to time

Paul