We work on anything planned for over 12 1/2 hours we can refuse it and ask for a shorter run,usually works as well lol but like anything we will do it if it suits us not the office bods
Just like the 10 hour thread, 15’s are no problem (Providing that I am not too tired and also have had sufficient breaks to keep the WTD regs happy)
I would object to a company saying “See you in 9 hours”, Daily rests of 9 hours (From finish to start) is not enough to get home, shower, eat, sleep, wake up, eat and get to work. But so many people bend over and do it, they expect it and you appear “Awkward” if you say no.
Please correct me if im wrong (and i know you will) isnt there the phrase * at the drivers discresion* that is supposed to cover extended days or redeuced evening breaks
Notimetoulouse:
Please correct me if im wrong (and i know you will) isnt there the phrase * at the drivers discresion* that is supposed to cover extended days or redeuced evening breaks
Yes there is, but all it leads to is the employer using their discretion to make sure you’re the first out on Monday, the last back on Friday, do the worst jobs and earn the least money. It’s legal for them to ask, and asking is their way of telling. You don’t want to play ball, that’s okay, it’s their ball, they take it home ie the situations mentioned above. You’re just deemed awkward, and the next bloke will just do it and shut up for a better finish on Friday. If you have a problem with the terms and conditions of your job, find one with better terms
Notimetoulouse:
Please correct me if im wrong (and i know you will) isnt there the phrase * at the drivers discresion* that is supposed to cover extended days or redeuced evening breaks
you are wrong.
Driver-Once-More:
Notimetoulouse:
Please correct me if im wrong (and i know you will) isnt there the phrase * at the drivers discresion* that is supposed to cover extended days or redeuced evening breaksyou are wrong.
No, he’s right, there is a phrase like that. Just like there’s a phrase, if your auntie had balls she’d be your uncle 
the fub:
I got sacked on Xmas eve for refusing to work over 12 hours and before the case came to court I was warned that the company would use the “but you’ve worked x amount of hours before so it then becomes standard practice”. In the eyes of the law then that was all they needed. As long as you have the hours legally then basically you can’t refuse. That was about 15 years ago though so things may have changed.
You needed to have had a good shop steward, yes it is true custom and practice will come into the equation, but if you’d stated that you were unfit to drive as you felt unwell, and had taken some medicine that was making you feel drowsy, such as for hey fever, then not a tribunal in the land will uphold your dismissal, in fact you’d be regarded a road safety hero.
I know off a bloke who had a similar situation, where he’d pulled into a layby for a 45min (kip), which turned into a couple off hours. The company were spitting mad, tried to take disciplinary action against Him, but were stopped in their tracks by the shop steward threatening to raise tired driver/road safety issue at an Industrial Tribunal, the Company backed down straight away, couldn’t even give the driver a verbal warning, nothing on his file off that incident at all, and paid the 2 hrs aswell 
Next time you need a short shift Xmas eve, go ill half way through the shift who can prove otherwise
And to the OP, I thought the drivers hours were about required break, not length off work. Companies do put the catch all “company requirements” “customer requirements” about hours including start time, though this can sometimes be in your favour, 1 firm I worked for had a nominal start time of 7am, in reality it would be 3-4am, but on the rare occasion that you were on a late start, maybe near customer premises for an 8 9 or 10am booking, then that card was in at 7am, and nothing was ever queried.
Working hours are like speed limits, they are a maximum not a target
Harry Monk:
The company can require you to do anything legal, which includes going over 13 hours. You could refuse, but you’d be laying yourself wide open to disciplinary action for failing to obey a reasonable instruction.
On the other side of that argument is the fact that legally maxing hours won’t be any defence whatsoever if/when a knackered driver runs into something.Realistically working regular 15 hour shifts isn’t a ‘reasonable’ instruction.
trubster:
Just like the 10 hour thread, 15’s are no problem (Providing that I am not too tired and also have had sufficient breaks to keep the WTD regs happy)I would object to a company saying “See you in 9 hours”, Daily rests of 9 hours (From finish to start) is not enough to get home, shower, eat, sleep, wake up, eat and get to work. But so many people bend over and do it, they expect it and you appear “Awkward” if you say no.
this is where I agree you can say no as its not ‘reasonable’ what you may struggle to win with is the fact legally you are allowed to work 15 hour 3 times a week, vs to me a 9 hours reduced rest is for people sleeping out.
eddie snax:
the fub:
I got sacked on Xmas eve for refusing to work over 12 hours and before the case came to court I was warned that the company would use the “but you’ve worked x amount of hours before so it then becomes standard practice”. In the eyes of the law then that was all they needed. As long as you have the hours legally then basically you can’t refuse. That was about 15 years ago though so things may have changed.You needed to have had a good shop steward, yes it is true custom and practice will come into the equation, but if you’d stated that you were unfit to drive as you felt unwell, and had taken some medicine that was making you feel drowsy, such as for hey fever, then not a tribunal in the land will uphold your dismissal, in fact you’d be regarded a road safety hero.
I know off a bloke who had a similar situation, where he’d pulled into a layby for a 45min (kip), which turned into a couple off hours. The company were spitting mad, tried to take disciplinary action against Him, but were stopped in their tracks by the shop steward threatening to raise tired driver/road safety issue at an Industrial Tribunal, the Company backed down straight away, couldn’t even give the driver a verbal warning, nothing on his file off that incident at all, and paid the 2 hrs aswell
Next time you need a short shift Xmas eve, go ill half way through the shift who can prove otherwise
And to the OP, I thought the drivers hours were about required break, not length off work. Companies do put the catch all “company requirements” “customer requirements” about hours including start time, though this can sometimes be in your favour, 1 firm I worked for had a nominal start time of 7am, in reality it would be 3-4am, but on the rare occasion that you were on a late start, maybe near customer premises for an 8 9 or 10am booking, then that card was in at 7am, and nothing was ever queried.
I said I was too tired to drive anymore only to be told that I was a professional driver and in their eyes that was my profession so I HAD to do the extra work. I replied that since as you say I’m a professional then my professional opinion should take precedent and I was not going to be a hazard to other road users by driving tired.
When it went to court I won. 
On our site, which is Micky Mouse stuff… The it is up to the driver is he wishes to reduce his daily rest or weekly rest, the company cannot force you to have a reduce rest. Our biggest shift is about 13 hours, so unless something breaksdown you’re not on a reducer 
Radar19:
Our place likes us to save our 15’s and 10’s for at least the second half of the week. Some weeks go by without me even needing to use a 15 or a 10.
■■■■ that - I think I’ve only ever gone over a 13 hour duty once or twice in the past 6 years, and never gone past 9 hours driving. There is simply no need for Dickensian working hours.
how times have changed, get on with your 15 hours a day job that you have agreed upon being a driver
hells bells we will have drivers complaining about doing 8 hours a day in the future if this is what is happening in the game these days
have a look at your contract if it states you will only be required to work 12 hour or less a day then you will be able to refuse, if it says your hours of work are between certain named hours there will also be a get out clause that will say something like or as the company deems fit
but if you want to be a driver you have to be prepared for 15 hours a day and nights out if you run out of time, not be crying that its not fair or you need someone to come and pick you up as you want to go home
what a state the industry is in these days
war1974:
trubster:
Just like the 10 hour thread, 15’s are no problem (Providing that I am not too tired and also have had sufficient breaks to keep the WTD regs happy)I would object to a company saying “See you in 9 hours”, Daily rests of 9 hours (From finish to start) is not enough to get home, shower, eat, sleep, wake up, eat and get to work. But so many people bend over and do it, they expect it and you appear “Awkward” if you say no.
this is where I agree you can say no as its not ‘reasonable’ what you may struggle to win with is the fact legally you are allowed to work 15 hour 3 times a week, vs to me a 9 hours reduced rest is for people sleeping out.
The fact that driving time is limited to 9-10 hours while daily rest can be reduced to the point where someone is back doing another shift,after what could realistically be around 5 hours sleep or even less,shows that the hours regs have zb all to do with safety. 
desypete:
how times have changed, get on with your 15 hours a day job that you have agreed upon being a driverhells bells we will have drivers complaining about doing 8 hours a day in the future if this is what is happening in the game these days
have a look at your contract if it states you will only be required to work 12 hour or less a day then you will be able to refuse, if it says your hours of work are between certain named hours there will also be a get out clause that will say something like or as the company deems fit
but if you want to be a driver you have to be prepared for 15 hours a day and nights out if you run out of time, not be crying that its not fair or you need someone to come and pick you up as you want to go home
what a state the industry is in these days
‘State’ in this case being the worst of all worlds situation of stupid artificially low driving time limits creating an environment of limited productivety.Combined with the potential of some knackered guvnor’s yes man,with too little sleep during a ‘reduced’ daily rest period,ploughing into an innocent party.Also bearing in mind that it won’t be the guvnor who ends up in jail in that case.
They cannot plan your day for more than 13 hours. U can refuse to do it. U may get some hassle from them. But if u are a day/night man,u can refuse. After 13 hours if u don’t think u can make it back in the truck. Then u need phone them and make sure they start making plans to get u home. Otherwise u will be staying out all night. If your wagon has no bed. Then u have to stay in a hotel/b and b. That is the law. Tell them you’ll check with vosa if they refuse to pay for the hotel.
Like that answer ‘the maostet’
I’ve always been under the impression that reducing your daily rest to less than 11hrs has to be your choice and not the employers and therefore they cannot plan you a day which exceeds 13hrs, if it happens on a day that everything being well would take 13hrs or under then you can’t complain but if they plan you a day that will clearly take over 13hrs you have the right to refuse to be forced to reduce your daily rest. People here are saying this isn’t right but then people are saying there is a phrase about reducing rests being “at drivers discretion” which would suggest this point is indeed correct.
Regardless of what the law states this is the rule I have always worked by, for me most jobs are an hours commute, if i’m back in at the same start time the following day and have a 15hr shift, i’m left with 7hrs at home to eat, sleep and do whatever, it’s an unreasonable amount of time given the nature of the job and risks of no sleep. In practice you’ll end up being ‘forced’ to do 15hrs regularly because ■■■■ happens and a 13hr planned day once you factor in traffic and delivery delays easily becomes 15hrs. I found myself recently subcontracting for Norberts in Crick and given the commute there in the truck before doing a day’s work I was maxing my duty hours every week. It got too much and they were not willing to plan my day realistically given the additional time I was putting in to get there and back over their own drivers, so I stopped working there, simple.
billdor1967:
They cannot plan your day for more than 13 hours. U can refuse to do it. U may get some hassle from them. But if u are a day/night man,u can refuse. After 13 hours if u don’t think u can make it back in the truck. Then u need phone them and make sure they start making plans to get u home. Otherwise u will be staying out all night. If your wagon has no bed. Then u have to stay in a hotel/b and b. That is the law. Tell them you’ll check with vosa if they refuse to pay for the hotel.
Please tell us which ‘law’ this comes under and when it was passed.