If I start doing overtime on my four on four off rota then it can start looking a lot like that.
tachograph:
COOKiEEES!!:
If illegal, why?
I think it is exactly the same but someone changed it to 24 to confuse 
orys:
Coffeeholic:
damoq:
Why are Hours and Tacho Regs so confusing?They aren’t. They are only confusing for -
- People who can’t read.
B. People who can read but don’t read all of the regulations or add stuff in which isn’t there.
iii. People who don’t bother to read the regulations and just go by the ■■■■■■■■ they hear in RDC’s or read on here.
- All of the above.
Let me rephrase the question then: Why there is so much to read on them?
If there was less content in the regulations, that would cause even more questions and answers.
The common question at the yard gate. “Where does it say that?”
It doesnt, it only tells you generally what you cannot do. The word NOT is used frequently
Wheel Nut:
If there was less content in the regulations, that would cause even more questions and answers.The common question at the yard gate. “Where does it say that?”
It doesnt, it only tells you generally what you cannot do. The word NOT is used frequently
What would be wrong with rules:
I you can’t drive more than 6 hours without a 45 minutes break
II you can’t drive more than 10 hours per day
III you can’t split your break into bits shorter than 15 minutes
IV you can’t have daily rest shorter than 9 hours
V you can’t have weekly rest shorter than 24 hours if you were driving 6 days in a row
VI you can’t have weekly rest shorter than 48 hours if you were driving 5 days in a row
VII you can’t drive six weeks in the row more than twice per month.
VIII you can’t have shift longer than 15 hours from daily rest to daily rest
IX you can’t drive if you don’t have 4 weeks of records with you
X you can’t give your records to the operator later than 6 weeks after the date they were made.
Would the word ended if there was only these 10 rules?
orys:
Wheel Nut:
If there was less content in the regulations, that would cause even more questions and answers.The common question at the yard gate. “Where does it say that?”
It doesnt, it only tells you generally what you cannot do. The word NOT is used frequently
What would be wrong with rules:
I you can’t drive more than 6 hours without a 45 minutes break
II you can’t drive more than 10 hours per day
III you can’t split your break into bits shorter than 15 minutes
IV you can’t have daily rest shorter than 9 hours
V you can’t have weekly rest shorter than 24 hours if you were driving 6 days in a row
VI you can’t have weekly rest shorter than 48 hours if you were driving 5 days in a row
VII you can’t drive six weeks in the row more than twice per month.
VIII you can’t have shift longer than 15 hours from daily rest to daily rest
IX you can’t drive if you don’t have 4 weeks of records with you
X you can’t give your records to the operator later than 6 weeks after the date they were made.Would the word ended if there was only these 10 rules?
Is it not 4.5hrs then a 45min break? 
But the way you word it is the way I would like to see the rules laid out. None of this mumbo jumbo that only a lawyer can understand. Simplified versions of the rules would make our lives easier IMO.
damoq:
Is it not 4.5hrs then a 45min break?
But the way you word it is the way I would like to see the rules laid out. None of this mumbo jumbo that only a lawyer can understand. Simplified versions of the rules would make our lives easier IMO.
That gives you some flexibility. You can drive 10 hours, but you can’t drive more than 6. So you can complete your 45 total breaks after 4 hours or 6 hours depends of circumstances and how you feel.
You really believe it would be safe to have runs planned for a 6 hour drive?
Okay, here’s my idea for some simple rules.
Driving
Don’t drive more than 4.5 hours without a 45 minute break, if you want, and for flexibility, you can take that as 15 then 30 minutes.
Don’t drive for more than 9 hours between rest periods, if you want, and for flexibility, you can increase that to a maximum of 10 hours twice a week, Monday to Sunday.
Don’t drive for more than 56 hours a week, Monday to Sunday, or 90 hours over any two consecutive weeks.
Rest Periods
Take, and complete, an 11 hour rest period within 24 hours of beginning your shift, if you want, and for flexibility, you can reduce this to a minimum of 9 hours 3 times between weekly rest periods.
Every week you must take a rest period of at least 45 hours, if you want, and for flexibility, every second week you can reduce this to a minimum of 24 hours. If you do reduce, add those reduced hours onto another rest period within the following 3 weeks.
No later than 144 hours after finishing a weekly rest period you must begin another.
WTD
Don’t do more than 6 hours work, driving and other work, without taking a 15 minute break.
If your shift has between 6 and 9 hours work you need total break time of 30 minutes, one or two parts.
If your shift has more than 9 hours work you need total break time of 45 minutes one, two or three parts.
Don’t work, driving and other work, for more than 60 hours a week and keep it to an average of 48 hours a week over 6 months.
Only 11 sentences, that’s not much to read is it? The above rules may seem a little familiar to some but I think they could just work. 
tachograph:
You really believe it would be safe to have runs planned for a 6 hour drive?
Well, I do it on the van (which are often very noisy and you drive faster, you overtake a lot etc). I can’t see why it can’t be done on the truck…
And - if you drive for 6 hours, “second half” of your day is limited to 4 hours only. That’s the beauty of it.
If you feel in your case that would be unsafe, nobody stops you from driving 5 hours and then 5 hours again.
Coffeeholic:
Okay, here’s my idea for some simple rules.Only 11 sentences, that’s not much to read is it? The above rules may seem a little familiar to some but I think they could just work.
But you are cheating, you have lots of “ands” “ifs” conditioning etc, while I have one rule split into two depends of if you have 6 or 5 days week.
So my is still simplier. And includes keeping the records in ten.
orys:
tachograph:
You really believe it would be safe to have runs planned for a 6 hour drive?Well, I do it on the van (which are often very noisy and you drive faster, you overtake a lot etc). I can’t see why it can’t be done on the truck…
And - if you drive for 6 hours, “second half” of your day is limited to 4 hours only. That’s the beauty of it.
If you feel in your case that would be unsafe, nobody stops you from driving 5 hours and then 5 hours again.
I think you’re missing the point, if you were allowed to drive for 6 hours some companies would plan for 6 hour drives and some drivers would go along with it.
Anyway, personally I’d much rather drive for 6 hours in a van than a truck that’s limited to 56 mph if your lucky
Coffeeholic:
Okay, here’s my idea for some simple rules.Driving
Don’t drive more than 4.5 hours without a 45 minute break, if you want, and for flexibility, you can take that as 15 then 30 minutes.
Don’t drive for more than 9 hours between rest periods, if you want, and for flexibility, you can increase that to a maximum of 10 hours twice a week, Monday to Sunday.
Don’t drive for more than 56 hours a week, Monday to Sunday, or 90 hours over any two consecutive weeks.
Rest Periods
Take, and complete, an 11 hour rest period within 24 hours of beginning your shift, if you want, and for flexibility, you can reduce this to a minimum of 9 hours 3 times between weekly rest periods.
Every week you must take a rest period of at least 45 hours, if you want, and for flexibility, every second week you can reduce this to a minimum of 24 hours. If you do reduce, add those reduced hours onto another rest period within the following 3 weeks.
No later than 144 hours after finishing a weekly rest period you must begin another.
WTD
Don’t do more than 6 hours work, driving and other work, without taking a 15 minute break.
If your shift has between 6 and 9 hours work you need total break time of 30 minutes, one or two parts.
If your shift has more than 9 hours work you need total break time of 45 minutes one, two or three parts.
Don’t work, driving and other work, for more than 60 hours a week ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶k̶e̶e̶p̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶v̶e̶r̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶4̶8̶ ̶h̶o̶u̶r̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶w̶e̶e̶k̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶6̶ ̶m̶o̶n̶t̶h̶s̶.
Only 11 sentences, that’s not much to read is it? The above rules may seem a little familiar to some but I think they could just work.
Looks good, I think we should work to those regulations 
But if you plan for 6 hours, you can’t go back on the same day, as you have only 4 hours in “second half” 
If you prefer, change that rule to “you can’t drive for more than 4 hours without a 30 minutes break” Then you have to stop for 30 minutes every 4 hours, situation becomes similar to what we have now, yet still more elastic.
My point is not about exact numbers, but about simplification of the rules…
Coffeeholic:
Okay, here’s my idea for some simple rules.Driving
Don’t drive more than 4.5 hours without a 45 minute break, if you want, and for flexibility, you can take that as 15 then 30 minutes.
Don’t drive for more than 9 hours between rest periods, if you want, and for flexibility, you can increase that to a maximum of 10 hours twice a week, Monday to Sunday.
Don’t drive for more than 56 hours a week, Monday to Sunday, or 90 hours over any two consecutive weeks.
Rest Periods
Take, and complete, an 11 hour rest period within 24 hours of beginning your shift, if you want, and for flexibility, you can reduce this to a minimum of 9 hours 3 times between weekly rest periods.
Every week you must take a rest period of at least 45 hours, if you want, and for flexibility, every second week you can reduce this to a minimum of 24 hours. If you do reduce, add those reduced hours onto another rest period within the following 3 weeks.
No later than 144 hours after finishing a weekly rest period you must begin another.
WTD
Don’t do more than 6 hours work, driving and other work, without taking a 15 minute break.
If your shift has between 6 and 9 hours work you need total break time of 30 minutes, one or two parts.
If your shift has more than 9 hours work you need total break time of 45 minutes one, two or three parts.
Don’t work, driving and other work, for more than 60 hours a week and keep it to an average of 48 hours a week over 6 months.
Only 11 sentences, that’s not much to read is it? The above rules may seem a little familiar to some but I think they could just work.
Never catch on IMHO!
Coffeeholic:
COOKiEEES!!:
If illegal, why?
One of those 24 hour rest periods will require compensation before the end of week 5, the requirement is for compensation to be completed before the end of the third week following the reduction and the third week following week 2 is week 5. There is no reason, from the information as shown, for the week 3 rest period to be any longer than 45 hours. You could make the compensation for the week 2 reduction in week 3 but it would be 2 weeks earlier than the limit for compensation the regulations lay down.
Why doesn’t the 2nd 24 hour rest in week two count as the compensation for the 1st 24 hour rest in week two? Then the 2nd one doesn’t need compensating because it wasn’t part of the minimum requirement?
Is this because the 2nd 24 hour rest was ‘required’ to prevent more than 6 shifts or 144 hours?
This did all make sense to me until i started staring at it
ex_reme_mech:
Coffeeholic:
COOKiEEES!!:
If illegal, why?
One of those 24 hour rest periods will require compensation before the end of week 5, the requirement is for compensation to be completed before the end of the third week following the reduction and the third week following week 2 is week 5. There is no reason, from the information as shown, for the week 3 rest period to be any longer than 45 hours. You could make the compensation for the week 2 reduction in week 3 but it would be 2 weeks earlier than the limit for compensation the regulations lay down.
Why doesn’t the 2nd 24 hour rest in week two count as the compensation for the 1st 24 hour rest in week two?
Because then it wouldn’t be a weekly rest, it would be a 3 hour daily rest + 21 hours compensation. Three hour daily rests ain’t allowed and compensation must be added to another rest period of at least 9 hours.
ex_reme_mech:
Then the 2nd one doesn’t need compensating because it wasn’t part of the minimum requirement?
Correct.
ex_reme_mech:
Is this because the 2nd 24 hour rest was ‘required’ to prevent more than 6 shifts or 144 hours?
Exactly that.
Was pretty obvious really eh?