Is this an infringement?

I had a a WTD infringement flagged up to me at work yesterday. We use smartanalysis software to create reports from our digi card downloads. The infringement goes as follows.

Started work at 22:30, other work untill 23:00 then 23 mins POA ( was told that my load would be another half hour so went for a coffee). Left the yard at 23.23 drive and other work until 05.07 then 45 mins break, drive and other work until end of shift at 07.15.

According to the infringement report, I exceeded 6 hours working time without a break i.e the report says that I should have had a break at 04.54.

My understanding was that as the POA ended at 23:23, I was not required to have a break under the 6 hour rule until 05.23, which I did i.e 45 mins commencing at 05.07.

What the report seems to have done is calculated 6 hours from my start time of 22.30 and added on 23 mins for the POA before flagging an infringement :confused:

Is the software wrong :question:

As far as i can see the software is correct because poa does not count as a break towards either the wtd or driving regs it just a way if showing u was available to work but not having a break, next time just put it on break

MAT:
I had a a WTD infringement flagged up to me at work yesterday. We use smartanalysis software to create reports from our digi card downloads. The infringement goes as follows.

Started work at 22:30, other work untill 23:00 then 23 mins POA ( was told that my load would be another half hour so went for a coffee). Left the yard at 23.23 drive and other work until 05.07 then 45 mins break, drive and other work until end of shift at 07.15.

According to the infringement report, I exceeded 6 hours working time without a break i.e the report says that I should have had a break at 04.54.

My understanding was that as the POA ended at 23:23, I was not required to have a break under the 6 hour rule until 05.23, which I did i.e 45 mins commencing at 05.07.

What the report seems to have done is calculated 6 hours from my start time of 22.30 and added on 23 mins for the POA before flagging an infringement :confused:

Is the software wrong :question:

No the software is not wrong, POA does not count as working time but also does not count as break and therefore does not reset the clock so to speak.

You started work at 22:30 so with the 23 minutes POA your break should have started no later than 04:53, they’ve said 04:54 but one minute wont make a difference to whether or not the infringement was legitimate or not anyway.

Ok, so if POA doesn’t count as break or working time, why does the infringement not occur after 04.30 i.e 6 hours after my start time.

It clearly is taking the POA into account in some respect as the infringement doesn’t occur until 6 hours and 23 mins has elapsed :question:

MAT:
Ok, so if POA doesn’t count as break or working time, why does the infringement not occur after 04.30 i.e 6 hours after my start time.

The fact that it doesn’t count as working time is exactly why it doesn’t flag up until 04:53. That is the point at which you had reached 6h of working time after starting your shift, as the 23min of POA doesn’t count as working time and so at 04:53, which is 6h23min after starting, you had hit the 6h of WT marker.

Paul

Ok, thanks guys, I guess you learn something every day and this is what you get for trying to push the limits of the rules. I knew what I was doing at the time but thought it within the rules.

If I was to get pulled with this on my card, what could I expect from VOSA assuming that ignorance is not a defence. Fine or telling off?

MAT:
Ok, so if POA doesn’t count as break or working time, why does the infringement not occur after 04.30 i.e 6 hours after my start time.

It clearly is taking the POA into account in some respect as the infringement doesn’t occur until 6 hours and 23 mins has elapsed :question:

Because the regulations RT(WT)R 2005 states that “No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break”.

As POA does not count as working time (work) it’s excluded from the 6 hours therefore from 22:30 to 04:53 you’ve worked 6 hours and should have had a break of at least 15 minutes.

MAT:
Ok, thanks guys, I guess you learn something every day and this is what you get for trying to push the limits of the rules. I knew what I was doing at the time but thought it within the rules.

If I was to get pulled with this on my card, what could I expect from VOSA assuming that ignorance is not a defence. Fine or telling off?

VOSA don’t bother about the working time regulations so unless you happen to meat a particularly keen and strict VOSA bod you won’t have any problems.

I’m not sure whether or not a VOSA examiner could go against what appears to be unofficial VOSA policy but I doubt they would anyway :wink:

MAT:
I had a a WTD infringement flagged up to me at work yesterday.

What happens in the future to this infringement as it is not a legal infringement of tacho regs?

Is it just simply kept on an internal company file and not passed on to any other company or organisation?

Every so often, once a month I think, the smart analysis reports are run and any anomalies / infringements are flagged up. These will include reduced rest periods, extended driving hours (i.e to 10 hours), and infringements both tacho regs and WTD. For infringements, a word is had, repeat or serious offenders can be disciplined. Personally, I’ve never had a tacho regs infringement, just this 6 hour issue mentioned above.

Drivers are required to sign the reports and audits are carried out internally to make sure the company remains compliant. As this is a one off in my case, the fact that I’ve acknowledged the issue, nothing more is said. However, as mentioned, repeated offences can lead to disciplinary action which I assume is the case anywhere.

One anomaly that is regularly flagged is “assumed rest period commenced”. This I’m told, is because as we work nights, we start work in one 24 hour period, finish in another and then start again in the same 24 hour period. I get round this by manually inputting my daily rest just taken, before commencing a shift.

MAT:
One anomaly that is regularly flagged is “assumed rest period commenced”. This I’m told, is because as we work nights, we start work in one 24 hour period, finish in another and then start again in the same 24 hour period. I get round this by manually inputting my daily rest just taken, before commencing a shift.

That’s normal, and is teh same for anyone regardless of if they work nights or not. Your card isn’t in the VU so the software can only assume you took your rest period, it can’t definitely say it is rest period because that may be incorrect. If you are on a night out and leave the card in the machine on rest then you don’t get this as it doesn’t need to assume, it knows. No need to manually input your daily rest period. That would be the same with an analogue chart that is removed at the end of a shift, again it can only be assumed the driver started a rest period.