People wonder why we all have to take the dcpc. Some people don’t seem to understand the rules 
limeyphil:
ok, maybe i’ve misread this.
i saw it as:
driver 1 runs out of time.
another driver puts his card in.
driver 1 does the driving.
dude drives 4h25m for arguments sake to the hub, there’s a big creeping queue so he’s gonna go over his 4:30, informs office of this, they send another driver to shunt in the queue put on bay etc on his own card, whilst dude does what he wants to do on his 45 having taken his card out. once finished doing whatever he wanted to do, dude gets back in, finishes the tip or heads back on the return journey if already tipped. gets back home after having a legal day at work.
stevie
tyler4164:
People wonder why we all have to take the dcpc. Some people don’t seem to understand the rules
So… I can do my first day of ADR (on the core of ADR) 5 times, the exact same 7 hours of training going over the same 7 hours ‘training’ and that qualifies me for my dCPC… Yes I still wonder why we have to take it !!!
I would see the point of say, having a day on tacho’s or whatever, a day training on mechanics of trucks etc, but when you can sit the same day ADR 5 times and qualify for 35 hours, the dCPC has to be a complete farce doesn’t it ?
Kerbdog:
tyler4164:
People wonder why we all have to take the dcpc. Some people don’t seem to understand the rulesSo… I can do my first day of ADR (on the core of ADR) 5 times, the exact same 7 hours of training going over the same 7 hours ‘training’ and that qualifies me for my dCPC… Yes I still wonder why we have to take it !!!
ahh, that’ll explain why you didn’t understand about MGW an bridges 
you’ll be ■■■■ hot on ADR through
stevie
Kerbdog:
tyler4164:
People wonder why we all have to take the dcpc. Some people don’t seem to understand the rulesSo… I can do my first day of ADR (on the core of ADR) 5 times, the exact same 7 hours of training going over the same 7 hours ‘training’ and that qualifies me for my dCPC… Yes I still wonder why we have to take it !!!
Was just making a point…so many people moan about it but clearly not everyone knows all the rules. Not really bothered about it myself as i don’t have to pay so even if it is a waste of time doesnt effect me 
i still dont sea any ducmumentation on this subject. seems to me where still treated like mushrooms. how can a driver quote the law when he dosent have it at hand. the search goese on. its out there skully.
footprint:
i still dont sea any ducmumentation on this subject. seems to me where still treated like mushrooms. how can a driver quote the law when he dosent have it at hand. the search goese on. its out there skully.
Here you go, all the documentation you need to answer your initial question. No treated like mushrooms, it’s to hand, no more searching and it confirms the situation is indeed legal so it’s all good.
I take it this is what you mean?
Article 12
Provided that road safety is not thereby jeopardised and to
enable the vehicle to reach a suitable stopping place, the driver
may depart from Articles 6 to 9 to the extent necessary to
ensure the safety of persons, of the vehicle or its load. The
driver shall indicate the reason for such departure manually on
the record sheet of the recording equipment or on a printout
from the recording equipment or in the duty roster, at the
latest on arrival at the suitable stopping place.
footprint:
I take it this is what you mean?Article 12
Provided that road safety is not thereby jeopardised and to
enable the vehicle to reach a suitable stopping place, the driver
may depart from Articles 6 to 9 to the extent necessary to
ensure the safety of persons, of the vehicle or its load. The
driver shall indicate the reason for such departure manually on
the record sheet of the recording equipment or on a printout
from the recording equipment or in the duty roster, at the
latest on arrival at the suitable stopping place.
No, that is nothing to do with the situation you describe in the OP.
The driver is not departing from the rules by exceeding any of the limits, the driver who takes over the vehicle for the queuing and getting on the bay is preventing that happening, so he does not need to use Article 12. That would be used for example when you get stuck in a traffic jam and by the time you get through it and reach a parking place you have gone over your driving or duty time. Then you use Article 12 to explain the circumstances in going over the limits
It really is a simple situation with a simple solution.
The first guy is going to run over his driving time while moving forward in a queue so the company get another driver to do that part for him while he has his break. After his break he can take back over the vehicle, reinsert his card, and make a manual entry for his break to cover the time the card was out of the tacho. It’s nothing to do with double manning so none of the requirements of that come into play here such as second driver joining no later than 30 minutes into the shift. He does part of the shift in a vehicle with access to a tacho unit, then part away from the vehicle which he has to make manual entry for, then completes the shift back in the vehicle.
That’s it, there is nothing illegal about it and it shows the company take steps to prevent a driver infringing the rules. It works well for both parties concerned.
i dont whant to get into conflict over this. but wheres the legislation. there is none. as for a company doing all it can so he dosent go over the driving rule. i would have thought it would be far easier for them to let him drop the trailor. and get the shunt driver to place it on a bay. as for the the driver take over there is no legislation only in emergancy rules. and also in my mind thay are flowting the law to suit themselves. its a gray area as many things in road transport are. as for not being treated like mushrooms try putting it to the vote. why dont thay publish a book office rules. and driver dont exist rules.
footprint:
i dont whant to get into conflict over this. but wheres the legislation. there is none.
You have a link to it in an earlier post, and you must have looked at it because you quoted it.
footprint:
as for a company doing all it can so he dosent go over the driving rule. i would have thought it would be far easier for them to let him drop the trailor. and get the shunt driver to place it on a bay.
Maybe, but they have chosen a different way. Either way is legal and prevents the driver exceeding his driving limit. What does it matter which way they do it, the important thing is they do and the driver can get his break in before he goes over his time.
footprint:
as for the the driver take over there is no legislation only in emergancy rules.
Wrong, emergency rules don’t matter here, and what they are doing does not break any legislation. Quite the opposite in fact because they are ensuring the driver stays within his limits.
footprint:
and also in my mind thay are flowting the law to suit themselves.
As you say, that’s in your mind and is totally wrong. They aren’t flouting the law, they are doing exactly what is required of them by the regulations working within them to ensure that the driver stays legal, and gets his break, while they can keep their operation on schedule by being able to unload the vehicle. Win, win.
footprint:
its a gray area as many things in road transport are.
Ah, the classic claim when someone isn’t getting the answer they want or do not understand the regs. There is no grey area here and there are virtually no grey areas in the current legislation.
footprint:
as for not being treated like mushrooms try putting it to the vote. why dont thay publish a book office rules. and driver dont exist rules.
Now you’re just being stupid. You came on asking if something was legal or not and several people have told you it is legal but as that isn’t the answer you wanted to hear you don’t accept that and instead start going on about grey areas and claiming drivers are treated like mushrooms. If that’s how you feel you are treated then it’s self inflicted, you have access to the internet and all the legislation is available on it so you can be fully out of the dark while not being fed RDC BS.
Here is some documentation we prepared earlier.
geebee45:
Hopefully the following will answer a few points raised;If somebody else is going to use the vehicle whilst you are having your break, the best way of dealing with things is to remove the chart / card. When you have finished your break and regain control of the vehicle reinsert the chart / card. If using charts, make a manual entry on the rear of your chart to show the break and an explanatory note covering what has happened won’t go amiss. If using a card, when you put the card back in the VU make the manual entry. Should you make a Horlicks of the manual entry, then make one on the back of a printout for that day.
Modular tachos (look like cd players and use charts), the VDO 1319 (found in some Mercs) and all digitals will always record POA to the second man record when a vehicle is in motion. So not really a lot of good putting your chart / card in the 2nd man position whilst the shunter drives the vehicle. The Actia 028, VDO 1318 and Stoneridge 2300 (round tachos stuck in the dash and have a speedo and clock straight in front of you) will record break to the 2nd man chart when the vehicle is moving. If you want a fuller explanation of this try the letters page in the November 2008 issue of ‘Trucking.’
For the avoidance of doubt; for those involved in a ‘genuine’ double manned journey, it is quite legal to take a break in a moving vehicle. However rest can only be taken on a moving vehicle if it is either a ferry or train and there is access to a bunk or couchette.
The insertion of a fresh chart made out in the driver trainers name and the continuation of the journey sounds suspiciously like the creation of a false record. Unless the two drivers swapped places. If, as the post suggests, the delay was due to traffic congestion following an RTC, why not drive to the nearest available parking and swap drivers (and charts) there? After all, provided the reasons for the departure are recorded on the chart / printout that would be perfectly legal.
If a shunter does not drive on a road open to the public, they do not need to keep a tacho record. Might not be a bad idea if they kept a record of which vehicles they did drive and when. Then, if the nice man from VOSA calls, the records can be produced and he will probably be a far happier chappie
For a read of the whole scenario, please read this thread 