A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.
Davey Driver:
Since when has helping load or unload become permitted during a break as long as its “Your” choice?
Other work is other work in anyone’s eyes and if Vosa watched you doing that then checked your tacho you’d not be smiling after giving them that excuse
Just to make it clear, I HAVE argued this one in court, and WON! The definition of recuperation is up to the individual, I chose to recuperate by supervising the loading of a piece of machinery on a low-loader, and since I was not instructed to do so by anyone else then it was deemed to be my own choice and hence was valid a break under the regulations, contrary to what VOSA thought!
I cannot instruct one of my drivers to perfrom any form of work during a break, however if I myself choose to do so then that is my business and there is nothing that VOSA, the courts or any muppet on trucknet can do about it. And I have the (very expensive) legal precedent to enforce my personal policy.
The basis used was that of an owner driver who chose to polish his truck on his break, which was his own personal choice but under the VOSA interprestation of the rules was classed as other work, however as it was not commonly expected of an employee then it was deemed to be the choice of the individual, and hence did not come under the scope of “other work”.
The problem with all that is the word chose, or any variety of it, is not in the requirements for break. For rest you must be free to dispose of your time as you wish but for break that doesn’t apply and the period must be used for recuperation, that isn’t a choice. If you did indeed win a case based on being free to choose what to do on a break you must have struck lucky and got a magistrate who didn’t have a clue about the EU Driver’s Hours rules.
A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.
Davey Driver:
Since when has helping load or unload become permitted during a break as long as its “Your” choice?
Other work is other work in anyone’s eyes and if Vosa watched you doing that then checked your tacho you’d not be smiling after giving them that excuse
Just to make it clear, I HAVE argued this one in court, and WON! The definition of recuperation is up to the individual, I chose to recuperate by supervising the loading of a piece of machinery on a low-loader, and since I was not instructed to do so by anyone else then it was deemed to be my own choice and hence was valid a break under the regulations, contrary to what VOSA thought!
I cannot instruct one of my drivers to perfrom any form of work during a break, however if I myself choose to do so then that is my business and there is nothing that VOSA, the courts or any muppet on trucknet can do about it. And I have the (very expensive) legal precedent to enforce my personal policy.
The basis used was that of an owner driver who chose to polish his truck on his break, which was his own personal choice but under the VOSA interprestation of the rules was classed as other work, however as it was not commonly expected of an employee then it was deemed to be the choice of the individual, and hence did not come under the scope of “other work”.
The problem with all that is the word chose, or any variety of it, is not in the requirements for break. For rest you must be free to dispose of your time as you wish but for break that doesn’t apply and the period must be used for recuperation, that isn’t a choice. If you did indeed win a case based on being free to choose what to do on a break you must have struck lucky and got a magistrate who didn’t have a clue about the EU Driver’s Hours rules.
That sounds like the EU logic.You can wash and polish the truck at 1 am while you should be recuperating (sleeping) on rest but you absolutely must recuperate (sleep) when you’re stopped for a break at midday.Or vice versa if you work nights
Well if Mr FH16 did indeed win his case and set legal precedent maybe he should give us the case details so we can google it and learn something. I’m not doubting you I’m just interested in law and would like to read about this one.
switchlogic:
Well if Mr FH16 did indeed win his case and set legal precedent maybe he should give us the case details so we can google it and learn something. I’m not doubting you I’m just interested in law and would like to read about this one.
Me Too, obviously the details of the case would benefit many drivers finding themselves in front of a court for tipping on break.
However Switchlogic, unlike you I DO doubt him, until I see the proof
switchlogic:
Well if Mr FH16 did indeed win his case and set legal precedent maybe he should give us the case details so we can google it and learn something. I’m not doubting you I’m just interested in law and would like to read about this one.
Me Too, obviously the details of the case would benefit many drivers finding themselves in front of a court for tipping on break.
However Switchlogic, unlike you I DO doubt him, until I see the proof
switchlogic:
Well if Mr FH16 did indeed win his case and set legal precedent maybe he should give us the case details so we can google it and learn something. I’m not doubting you I’m just interested in law and would like to read about this one.
Me Too, obviously the details of the case would benefit many drivers finding themselves in front of a court for tipping on break.
However Switchlogic, unlike you I DO doubt him, until I see the proof
I was just being polite!
So was I, you should have seen my initial meanderings, the word sensor was on overtime.
I am willing to learn from another muppet on trucknet
switchlogic:
Well if Mr FH16 did indeed win his case and set legal precedent maybe he should give us the case details so we can google it and learn something. I’m not doubting you I’m just interested in law and would like to read about this one.
Me Too, obviously the details of the case would benefit many drivers finding themselves in front of a court for tipping on break.
However Switchlogic, unlike you I DO doubt him, until I see the proof
I was just being polite!
So was I, you should have seen my initial meanderings, the word sensor was on overtime.
I am willing to learn from another muppet on trucknet
I only just saw your post Mr Nut. Your right if he set a legal precedent allowing us to voluntarily tip ourselves in Lidl on a break then we must know, at once!
switchlogic:
Well if Mr FH16 did indeed win his case and set legal precedent maybe he should give us the case details so we can google it and learn something. I’m not doubting you I’m just interested in law and would like to read about this one.
Me Too, obviously the details of the case would benefit many drivers finding themselves in front of a court for tipping on break.
However Switchlogic, unlike you I DO doubt him, until I see the proof
I was just being polite!
So was I, you should have seen my initial meanderings, the word sensor was on overtime.
I am willing to learn from another muppet on trucknet
I only just saw your post Mr Nut. Your right if he set a legal precedent allowing us to voluntarily tip ourselves in Lidl on a break then we must know, at once!
Eagerly waiting the response from FH16 on this one. I got warned last year in Fleet services. Pulled in for a 45 with a low loader and as I usually do, set it to break, got out and walked round the trailer just checking the chains and straps, must have taken all of 2 minutes at the most. Went into the services, came back and had some grub in the cab. Break over, pulled away, just got to the lorry park exit by the fuel pumps and they stop me. Looked at my chart, dead on 45 mins break, but they had “observed me” checking the load and as such, did I realise the offence I had commited? He wasn’t a bad fella to be fair, but an arsey one could just as easily given me a nick for it I expect.
This was over a 2 minute inspection of load security, but they classed it as other work. I suppose technically speaking they were right and I think he knew it would be petty to do me for it but i’m interested to see how he got away with his case all the same.
It doesn’t mention if this was just a magistrates court or a full blown affair with 12 good men and true. But in my experience of magistrates they look like a cross between Hinge and Bracket and Two Fat Ladies who have no more knowledge of the drivers hours & tachograph laws then a grasshopper.
Wheel Nut:
It doesn’t mention if this was just a magistrates court or a full blown affair with 12 good men and true. But in my experience of magistrates they look like a cross between Hinge and Bracket and Two Fat Ladies who have no more knowledge of the drivers hours & tachograph laws then a grasshopper.
Even if it was a Magistrates court the hearing it will have been recorded and so a copy will be obtainable by any Lawyer wanting to use it to defend a client for a similar offence.
Can a left handed driver drive a right hand drive truck and vice versa,i can see VOSA clamping down on this dangerous practice,it just aint cricket,old bean.If you have a RTC,then you will be in the ■■■.
toby1234abc:
Can a left handed driver drive a right hand drive truck and vice versa,i can see VOSA clamping down on this dangerous practice,it just aint cricket,old bean.If you have a RTC,then you will be in the ■■■.
What medication are you taking today Toby■■? Lol
I’m right handed but drive a left handed car without any problems
Having read through this thread I cannot see, along with the majority of posters on here, how ‘having a choice’ can have an effect on whether being involved in the physical act of unloading a vehicle is viewed as other work or not.
In my mind the definition of break is unambiguous; a driver cannot do any driving or other work, I fail to see how shoving a pallet truck up and down a trailer can be viewed as anything other than work. Nor would it be OK to put the tacho on break whilst you fuel up and try and make the exercise last 15 (or 30) minutes, but I think a few others have discussed this action before.
In my view you would be quite OK taking a break sitting in the drivers seat whilst your vehicle is unloaded.
If this decision was made at Magistrates Court then it will only be binding on other Magistrates hearings. If the circumstances are as described I’m very surprised it wasn’t taken to appeal, where the outcome might be totally different.
