Radar19:
Can’t do that, tip it from the roadside.
Not possible, A we’d probably get locked up tipping a tank at the roadside across a public pavement in town and quite possibly damage the road too, B we’d be 60+ft short of the silos.
Juddian:
Radar19:
Can’t do that, tip it from the roadside.Not possible, A we’d probably get locked up tipping a tank at the roadside across a public pavement in town and quite possibly damage the road too, B we’d be 60+ft short of the silos.
Oh, tanks. I thought it was a curtain sider.
Juddian:
UKtramp:
This post I will put in my masterclass file.I still reckon you’re pulling our legs with your posts half the time
hmm?
However, i’ve also learned a thing or two last night, which only goes to prove every day is a schoolday no matter how many years you’ve been doing the job, which itself is always changing.
I’d never thought before of (was it Stevieboy, sorry if that’s wrong i’ll edit
) dropping the trailer suspension and raising the unit to full height to transfer more weight onto the tractor unit…i sometimes drop the trailer suspension to check if the trailer lifter will rise when loaded, no my current tanker won’t bloody cooperate
, but i shall be experimenting on one of our weighbridges when its quiet at work to see what the difference is using the trailer dump/unit increase method mentioned…anything to help ensure i don’t get stuck and have to endure another single bloody night out in a tin can
Funny thing with the MAN’s i’ve found, Stevieboy mentions sliding the fifth wheel back to increase weight on the drive axle, which makes absolute sense and was standard practice on 4x2’s…except when i first got my 6x2 MAN i experimented for several weeks with moving the fifth wheel to find its ideal spot, cos where it is makes a huge difference to how it handles, horrible when fully back, on the MAN moving it further back increases the weight on the mid lift (itself only a 5.3 ton axle if i recall correctly, we’re on small mid lift wheels) not the drive axle and if fully back can actually overload the mid lifter whilst the other two axles are fine, it still baffles me a bit to be honest how this works quite like this
As a general comment for newer drivers, i’ve always tried to learn my lorry and all its idioisyncrasies when conditions are favourable and you don’t need special techniques to do the job, it’s NBG trying to learn your gearbox and air dumps/traction controls intimately for example when you’re mincing along in 4" of bloody snow just trying to keep the sodding thing moving and on the road, or as in the original post when trying to do some extreme maneuvers.
Don’t be afraid to test your lorry out to see what it does and how it behaves, it will have good points as well as bad, just be careful with the bloody diff lock on grippy surfaces cos transmission wind up is a grave possibility.
Thanks for all the contributions, the funny, the ■■■■ taking, and the serious.
Just be careful with that. We’ve lost the run up bars on a couple of our units doing it. They can snag on the trailer superstructure (?), the big reinforcing bars that run along the underneath of the trailer up to the rubbing plate.
Juddian:
bubsy06:
Just turn traction control off and dump the air in the mid axle just as u hit the corner.
Diff lock engaged on a tight corner?? No chance that will put u into a worse mess or break the diff.For the newbies…
Traction control drops the revs when its senses wheel spin causing u more problems when u are trying to go uphill.The middle axle takes weight off the drive axle when it is down, a button in the cab will dump air out of the middle axle and put more weight and traction onto the drive axle.
Diff lock will lock the drive axles so they only want to go in a straight line, only good if u r off road i.e. quarrys, forests, landfill. On tarmac it will cause problems.
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Spot on that
TC or ASR (in MAN’s) is the kiddie, allows you to keep the power on, dumping the air and indeed being MAN the mid lift will raise fully gives you the added grip plus one less unsteered axle trying to prevent the turn.
Norb, on MAN’s the air dump valve works up to and switches itself off at 20mph’ish (hmm or was it 20k’s, in all this excitement i lost count, d’ya feel lucky punk), its a handy thing to know the speed so if you’re negotiating a slippery hill you can hit that button when the speed drops to 20mph for some added grip.
The other thing, MANs especially is that the compressor is hopeless, and with a couple of violent shunts (and they are violent at this drop) you can soon exhaust the air supply, so make sure you have full tanks before you start, bloody embarrassing if you’re stuck across the road revving the ■■■■■■■■ off it trying to build the air up again and a Police BMW X5 comes round the cornerAgree about diff lock, at the place in question i haven’t needed it and agree you would be in danger of breaking summat expensive unless the ground is slippery enough, even wet i’d be wary at this drop until i’d straightened the unit out, never had to do this one with snow on the ground, not hoping to either
Its all trial and error, no two events are the same, and we learn from each experience, never stop learning.
Interesting one chaps, thanks all for the input.
Makes sense. When I was in this situation it was a good 18 - 20 years ago in a mid 90’s Scania, don’t think it had T/C in them days, and it wasn’t quite a jack knife job either but 45 degree bend which made the diff lock judder a bit.
Had to explain the hows and whys of the following to another really nice young bloke today (not the first by a long chalk), another who was having trouble getting a vehicle into an awkward place, to be fair he understood and took it on board readily, but honestly he should have been shown long before he ever got let loose.
Could well have been me that you’re talking about - defo me if it was at Pease Pottage. I’m the first to admit that I’m not brilliant but from a commercial point of view I’ve always made my delivery slots, so mission accomplished. In fact, earlier this week I nailed a 90 deg, blindside reverse from a tight one way street into a narrow dead end lane with cars parked on one side. I did it without any damage, although I did a bit more getting out than the zen masters amongst us would need, and it was a great feeling. On the other hand, after 9H51mins for the 2nd day running on reduced rest and 15 hour shifts (how do you train for that), parking the ■■■■ thing forward in an empty space can prove a bit of a challenge to me. Test passed end of May.
So far, I’ve had nothing but encouragement and kind words from the brother truckers thatI’ve met, so a big thanks to all.
Juddian:
Radar19:
Can’t do that, tip it from the roadside.Not possible, A we’d probably get locked up tipping a tank at the roadside across a public pavement in town and quite possibly damage the road too, B we’d be 60+ft short of the silos.
Take more pipes, problem sorted.
It’s not just tight uphill off camber etc situations that might need “manual input not covered in the driving test”
Bearing in mind I drive a stralis , damp road even tho I had twenty tonne load on , bring Harley hill ( between Shrewsbury /Bridgnorth ) into the equation
Couldn’t hit the weight transfer switch quick enough when the drive wheels started to slip 
There’s no way you would get going again if you did stop on a hill like that in the wet ,p!
Give me truck with a midlift that does actually lift with weight on any day , e.g. Volvo fh 
Captain Caveman.
Thanks, warning noted, its not something i’d want to do on uneven ground anyway but might come in handy getting the thing up an incline in winter, but i’m going to see what the weight difference is just for the hell of it, will report back next week.
I’ve scraped me run up bars on the chassis anyway just going over a rise and turning at the same time into a sharp downhill into one the regular drops, no other approach possible, no damage apart from scores on the trailer chassis underside and run up bars luckily.
Gordon 50.
Yep dare say most of us managed to ‘feel’ the wind up building up in the transmission before damage happened 
, i was lucky in that i did lots of off road and landfill work, with both double drive rigids and artics in the dim and distant past.
Autporto.
No wasn’t me, haven’t been south of the river for years, but that reverse sounds like a steep learning curve but bet you feel proud you’ve done it, there is no preparing for those hours mate, hopefully you’ll find a number paying as good if not better for fewer hours.
Yes most drivers are happy to help out and advise, if they can help, the nob heads are thankfully still in a minority.
Maoster.
No, just no.
MikeyD.
Last bloody Stralis 6x2 i drove the driver had no input at all on the mid lift, it was either up or down automatically, but then the bloke designed it so you’d have to tilt the cab to put engine oil in so hardly surprising , i believe some new Actros’ are like this, no doubt UK fleet spec fodder, be as much use as a chocolate teapot over the water, the Dutch would throw 'em back at the dealer.
I used to run a lot between Worcs and Hereford and Worcs to Leominster on the transporters, similar suddenly sharpening hills on those routes too, so manual gearchanging cos the 3 pedal Opticruise gearbox couldn’t downshift fast enough (or select the right gears itself either) and soon as the speed was right get that mid lift up, or as you say, a good possibility of coming to a shuddering halt in the wet and then reverse all the way back down again, some hairy moments till i got it sorted.
I’d spat me dummy out with that Scanny three weeks after getting it, had just dropped two cars off at one drop and the road leaving the garage was a steep hill at a set of lights, turning left onto the main road, it set off ok but decided half way round the left turn with the trailer still on the hill) to change gear, in its own sweet time and yes the engine couldn’t cope and it stalled out on me.
I went bloody ballistic how i didn’t explode is a mystery and anyone in the town must have learned some new words, from that moment to this i’ve never driven a single auto (except for Volvo who got it right) in auto.
eagerbeaver:
GORDON 50:
I was in a similar situation a few years ago but in a 4 x 2, dif lock sorted it, so if this was me it would be lift axle up and dif lock on.The example given by Crusty was a loaded wagon so you wouldn’t be able to lift the mid.
thats what the mid lifts dump for lasts abought 90 seconds 
Juddian , great post !
Being a noob I treat every day as a learning day but being on easy fridge work doing the same handfull of runs your experience gaining can be limited .
Great advice for us newbies and one day hope full it will help a few of us .
I have to totally agreee that lgv training nowadays only teaches you to pass a test and not to drive.
Even the reversing exercise is taught parrot fashion and not by using techniques !
Keep up the good work pal
Diff lock and air dump if avalible and use manual box
spike78:
I have to totally agreee that lgv training nowadays only teaches you to pass a test and not to drive.
I don’t know what the answer is, as UKtramp rightly said there isn’t time on the standard driver training schemes, if there was a full enough course it would be twice the current price…arguably the £billions being ■■■■■■ up the wall on idiotic experiments in platooning and driverless lorry ■■■■■■■■ could be better spent subsidising extended training so more advanced and hands on stuff could be covered over a longer period once test is passed, everyone would benefit, drivers companies and the general public.
You might not need to know other techniques on the vast majority of work, and yes fridges should usually be on reasonable premises, the problem is that unless you have the opportunity to see what your lorry can do in controlled safe circs, its a bit a bugger trying to learn it all when a 2 day winter blizzard arrives suddenly.
On the job trainers could do more i am sure at depot level, i would, but increasingly the companies are run at the top by non transport people, so unless the trainer takes it on themselves through pride interest or sheer bloody mindedness, can’t see much other than box ticking to be the norm.
spike78:
Juddian , great post !Being a noob I treat every day as a learning day but being on easy fridge work doing the same handfull of runs your experience gaining can be limited .
Great advice for us newbies and one day hope full it will help a few of us .
I have to totally agreee that lgv training nowadays only teaches you to pass a test and not to drive.
Even the reversing exercise is taught parrot fashion and not by using techniques !
Keep up the good work pal
Hasn’t it always been like that. My first job was skip work you learn about getting in right places and growing a thick skin quick then
kr79:
spike78:
Juddian , great post !Being a noob I treat every day as a learning day but being on easy fridge work doing the same handfull of runs your experience gaining can be limited .
Great advice for us newbies and one day hope full it will help a few of us .
I have to totally agreee that lgv training nowadays only teaches you to pass a test and not to drive.
Even the reversing exercise is taught parrot fashion and not by using techniques !
Keep up the good work pal
Hasn’t it always been like that. My first job was skip work you learn about getting in right places and growing a thick skin quick then
KR I cant comment on past training standards , only on my recent experiences but most of my learning has cone from finding quiet corners of Honeybourne air field and practicing , messing up at rdcs in front of guys and thinking"well I wont do that again" and listening to the old hands on here .
^^^ sod me a man that has the nous to practice when possible where no damage can happen.
you’ll go far mate
Juddian:
^^^ sod me a man that has the nous to practice when possible where no damage can happen.you’ll go far mate
Its only because the cotswolds has a pants 4g coverage and I can waste my time watching ■■■■ or cats playing the piano on youtube lol
Vid:
I’m guessing only us suckers that drive on landfill will have a diff lock?
I don’t think I have seen a lorry without a diff lock since the early 80’s. In the USA it would not only be a diff lock but and axles lock to make it 4 wheel drive.
I don’t often post on here but this really boils my ■■■■… Drivers spinning round loaded with mid lifts down (we only run MANs), tearing chunks off the shoulders of the tyres, or spinning the drives like a savage half-wit.
Occasionally someone will say to me “are you loaded?” or “why is your axle up?” to which I reply
“Yeah it’s a tight yard and it’s easier with the axle up, plus it saves shredding the tyres up.”
Ivariably the reply is either “How do you lift the axle loaded?” or “OOhhh, company man are you? Worrying about tyres!”
It’s not just new starters either, lads who have been at it for years are still blissfully abusing tackle because they don’t or won’t understand what all the little buttons on the dash do. If you can’t be bothered pushing a switch before turning a tight corner there really is no hope…
As usual the clown is right on the money. Top post
Generallee.
I’ve had the why are you worried about tyres or suspension idiotic comments too
Place i spent many years at long time ago with mainly artic bulkers and a few flats the boss man (a true gentleman) would not be impressed at any U turns, you could expect the long legged bugger to come sprinting out the office sharpish if he saw one about to happen, to turn around in the yard you’d do a three point turn and quite right too.
Is there a more horrible sound than a loaded triaxle being dragged round in a U turn when a quite reasonable only slightly blind side or reverse round a corner instead of the Uey is the easier and or kinder option.
wirksworth rod:
eagerbeaver:
GORDON 50:
I was in a similar situation a few years ago but in a 4 x 2, dif lock sorted it, so if this was me it would be lift axle up and dif lock on.The example given by Crusty was a loaded wagon so you wouldn’t be able to lift the mid.
In my first post on this topic Rod, I had already said that I usually dump the air. But assuming we are generalising regarding different marques of wagon, I didn’t realise the mid lift actually raised fully!
Learnt a couple of things though, traction control seems to be more trouble than it’s worth