Muckaway:
robroy:
NewLad:
When they take bonuses off you for speeding I would say they are not encouraging dangerous practicesNo, think about it mate, I would call it potential damage limitation, and covering their arses.
I asked why we lose bonuses for speeding;
“So nobody can profit from breaking the law.”
I then asked what happens to the withdrawn bonus;
“The firm keeps it.” Enough said then, the scheme’s still illegal.
why does that mean it’s illegal?
cant see how it would be illegal when at both ferrymasters and dfds there drivers got extra after x amount of km’s and as an owner driver we were paid by the km (so if we employed a driver they would need to do x amount of kms per week to justify the truck being on the road!). fuel bonuses and accident bonuses could also be classed as similar.
robroy:
I was talking to a driver of a large bulk firm the other day about wages. He reckoned he was on a £90 per day salary for 5 days, which I reckon is more than some are on today, and on top of that an unspecified extra amount for every load/tip. Is this type of incentive still legal as I seem to remember in the 80s or 90s it was banned as it was seen to compromise road safety. The driver went on to say that it was doing just that at his firm, as some of the guys were going all out to the point it was causing friction among themselves, and it was becoming a race for loads, by ways such as driving flat out on all classes of road, tipping and loading on breaks which lead to eating and drinking on the move, meaning no REAL break was taken all week whilst driving to maximum limits every day, and parking in any sh hole they found when their last minute was up, bed, and away again next day.
Is this still legal ? and if so (still) usual in tipper/bulk haulage? as you see a lot of tipper guys driving as if they have seen the old film “Hell Drivers” and mistook it for a training video… Taking cover right now
For six months last Winter I worked for:
henderson-group.com/home.aspx?area=9
One of the biggest employers in NI, All of their drivers are on a “bonus pay scheme” similar to what you have posted above.
The EXACT same thing happens every day(except for no nights out) were the majority of drivers literally RACE about to get cages delivered at the stores to get back for what second loads there are to boost up the wages 
My first training day was with a driver who RAN up and down inside a “Decker” to get the cages loaded onto the tail-lift, ran back and forward from the stores and drove flat out AND tipped “off the card”
It scared the crap out of me 
I spoke to the union about the bonus pay scheme and they said it was completely legal due to the way the company Lawyers had the scheme written.
stevieboy308:
Muckaway:
robroy:
NewLad:
When they take bonuses off you for speeding I would say they are not encouraging dangerous practicesNo, think about it mate, I would call it potential damage limitation, and covering their arses.
I asked why we lose bonuses for speeding;
“So nobody can profit from breaking the law.”
I then asked what happens to the withdrawn bonus;
“The firm keeps it.” Enough said then, the scheme’s still illegal.why does that mean it’s illegal?
Because the firm is profiting from speeding instead
claretmatt:
stevieboy308:
Muckaway:
robroy:
NewLad:
When they take bonuses off you for speeding I would say they are not encouraging dangerous practicesNo, think about it mate, I would call it potential damage limitation, and covering their arses.
I asked why we lose bonuses for speeding;
“So nobody can profit from breaking the law.”
I then asked what happens to the withdrawn bonus;
“The firm keeps it.” Enough said then, the scheme’s still illegal.why does that mean it’s illegal?
Because the firm is profiting from speeding instead
is there any legislation confirming that?
Like Moose said in his post I was paid on a %, 27% on a six wheeler and £40 per day if there was no work. Initially I didn’t get paid for Bank Holidays (as I didn’t work) but we sorted that out and it worked well as I could get my work done and get off home instead of sitting around in layby’s like some of the hourly paid guy’s. If I finished early due to lack of work then I could do some maintenance at least, a brake reline or greasing and brake adjusting etc if I felt inclined. No extra rate for Saturday’s though as the haulage rate was the same, rate and a half for Sunday and night work.
Before then, when I worked for Tilcon we were paid on mileage, 28 per hour I seem to recall though it may have been upped to 30, it was 20 + years ago now. At one time we had slow running time through London as well. We also got overtime on anything over the 30 miles, plus 1/4 hour a day fuelling time and 11/4 hours per load for loading and tipping stone or 13/4 hours for tarmac. I think that the powder tanker’s got 21/4 hours? Saturday was rate and a half, Sunday double. When the transport was sold off and the TM took the trucks on a lot of that gradually disappeared!
Pete.
obsessivecompulsive2:
delboytwo:
robroy:
I was talking to a driver of a large bulk firm the other day about wages. He reckoned he was on a £90 per day salary for 5 days, which I reckon is more than some are on today, and on top of that an unspecified extra amount for every load/tip. Is this type of incentive still legal as I seem to remember in the 80s or 90s it was banned as it was seen to compromise road safety. The driver went on to say that it was doing just that at his firm, as some of the guys were going all out to the point it was causing friction among themselves, and it was becoming a race for loads, by ways such as driving flat out on all classes of road, tipping and loading on breaks which lead to eating and drinking on the move, meaning no REAL break was taken all week whilst driving to maximum limits every day, and parking in any sh hole they found when their last minute was up, bed, and away again next day.
Is this still legal ? and if so (still) usual in tipper/bulk haulage? as you see a lot of tipper guys driving as if they have seen the old film “Hell Drivers” and mistook it for a training videoit is still illegal to give bonuses
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006Article 10
- A transport undertaking shall not give drivers it employs
or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form
of a bonus or wage supplement, related to distances travelled
and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is of such
a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages
infringement of this Regulation.Quality post,i couldn’t find anything about this online! I knew it’d been outlawed.
Worded so it can still be legal
Were on a flat rate plus ‘barrelage’ for what we deliver, we run through a 5 week rota so in theory over the year were pretty much the same, theres the odd days where you can rush about to get an extra load, but then theres guys who hang the arse out of the job and go for the overtime.
In our job I dont think a salary or day rate would work IMO.
B1 GGK:
obsessivecompulsive2:
delboytwo:
robroy:
I was talking to a driver of a large bulk firm the other day about wages. He reckoned he was on a £90 per day salary for 5 days, which I reckon is more than some are on today, and on top of that an unspecified extra amount for every load/tip. Is this type of incentive still legal as I seem to remember in the 80s or 90s it was banned as it was seen to compromise road safety. The driver went on to say that it was doing just that at his firm, as some of the guys were going all out to the point it was causing friction among themselves, and it was becoming a race for loads, by ways such as driving flat out on all classes of road, tipping and loading on breaks which lead to eating and drinking on the move, meaning no REAL break was taken all week whilst driving to maximum limits every day, and parking in any sh hole they found when their last minute was up, bed, and away again next day.
Is this still legal ? and if so (still) usual in tipper/bulk haulage? as you see a lot of tipper guys driving as if they have seen the old film “Hell Drivers” and mistook it for a training videoit is still illegal to give bonuses
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006Article 10
- A transport undertaking shall not give drivers it employs
or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form
of a bonus or wage supplement, related to distances travelled
and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is of such
a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages
infringement of this Regulation.Quality post,i couldn’t find anything about this online! I knew it’d been outlawed.
Worded so it can still be legal
as b1 said still totally legal to pay percentage, if it was illegal than i don’t think the likes of stobarts, jenkinsons, m. ways would still be paying that way, even gregory’s walking floor boys are still on percentage and thats just the big companies a lot of small bulk firms pay that way
I notice that no-one from the bulk tipping side has confirmed that operators are/were totally open about the vehicle’s earnings whecalculating drivers’ wages.
Retired Old ■■■■:
I notice that no-one from the bulk tipping side has confirmed that operators are/were totally open about the vehicle’s earnings whecalculating drivers’ wages.
On bulk tippers we got paid on tips/loads/miles. Everything was calculated on units, one tip - 1 unit, one load - 1 unit, 100 kms - 1 unit. (maybe not exact working out in office, but it was how drivers could work it out).
Therefore load, tip and reload, run time out might be 700km plus loads and tips came to 10 units, and it was in the region of £10/unit, so hundred quid for the day, night out on top. Made you pull your finger out to make sure you got that extra load on/off! Mind you that was 6 years ago.
Some of the bone idle gits I work with would be lucky to earn a wage on that pay structure.
Retired Old ■■■■:
I notice that no-one from the bulk tipping side has confirmed that operators are/were totally open about the vehicle’s earnings whecalculating drivers’ wages.
When you say vehicle earnings do you mean tonnage? Or are there exclusions for fuel/maintenance etc.
As said, we are paid per barrel, we have load sheets and its all totaled up to barrel weight, 20 minutes a week maths i can work out what bonus I have earned that week.
I have rarely worked for a firm that doesn’t do this, and I have never driven a tipper.
I’m surprised no-one has mentioned car transporters…
I am sure this sort of thing was outlawed when tachos first came in years ago,I suppose it will be like the silly POA and take no notice.
delboytwo:
robroy:
I was talking to a driver of a large bulk firm the other day about wages. He reckoned he was on a £90 per day salary for 5 days, which I reckon is more than some are on today, and on top of that an unspecified extra amount for every load/tip. Is this type of incentive still legal as I seem to remember in the 80s or 90s it was banned as it was seen to compromise road safety. The driver went on to say that it was doing just that at his firm, as some of the guys were going all out to the point it was causing friction among themselves, and it was becoming a race for loads, by ways such as driving flat out on all classes of road, tipping and loading on breaks which lead to eating and drinking on the move, meaning no REAL break was taken all week whilst driving to maximum limits every day, and parking in any sh hole they found when their last minute was up, bed, and away again next day.
Is this still legal ? and if so (still) usual in tipper/bulk haulage? as you see a lot of tipper guys driving as if they have seen the old film “Hell Drivers” and mistook it for a training videoit is still illegal to give bonuses
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006Article 10
- A transport undertaking shall not give drivers it employs
or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form
of a bonus or wage supplement, related to distances travelled
and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is of such
a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages
infringement of this Regulation.
One very small word missed, that is if
I think it was outlawed when tachos first came in, but I suppose it is not enforced,least wise I have not read anything where a court case has arisen, it will be like the silly POA no one will check if you have been able to dispose of your time as you wish.
xfmatt:
I think the green and whites (Bulmans) are paid similar to this.
Somebody has already mentioned jail. Bulmans & jail, they’ve already done that for another reason!
B1 GGK:
Retired Old ■■■■:
I notice that no-one from the bulk tipping side has confirmed that operators are/were totally open about the vehicle’s earnings whecalculating drivers’ wages.When you say vehicle earnings do you mean tonnage? Or are there exclusions for fuel/maintenance etc.
As said, we are paid per barrel, we have load sheets and its all totaled up to barrel weight, 20 minutes a week maths i can work out what bonus I have earned that week.
I had a rate sheet for all the quarries so could work my own wage out to see if it coincided with what I was paid, in five years I never had a query. Just checked the rate per tonne and any daywork/waiting time, added it all up and then divide by 27%. ie (one day in 2002) Worksop £6.34 per tonne, Castle Bromwich £6.34 per tonne X 17 (lorry payload) = £215.56 27% = £58.20.
Pete.