Thousands of us did theirs in a straight 5 or 6 then coped with what else was out there so unless we are saying that todays drivers are less capable than we were …
That would be daring and dangerously wrong! There are a couple of points you’re missing though ROG. FIrstly, the traffic is considerably heavier than 40 years ago together with much more complex road and traffic management systems. Secondly is the old chestnut about learning on a w+d then going on to drive an artic. This only became possible in 1997 so prior to that the only route to CE was with an artic (granted a piddly little single axle 28 footer!). Now add in the pressure of timed deliveries - never existed years ago. Then, for good measure, add in trackers and mobile communications.
This is all now IMO adding up to a totally different job to what I was doing in the seventies.
My point is that we could go from a “straight” box to a splitter or whatever because there was little else to think about. I have stated my case earlier in this thread that so much now relies on good, thorough inductions.
I fully accept that most folk only train on one type of gearbox - please refer to the last paragraph.
provide training (Half day free) in the manual unit AFTER passing the test. So the debate about which is better or easier can be quashed
That’s admirable but IME it wont work. I offered training - FOC - on a full size fully loaded artic following a w+d test pass. Most never made an appointment to come, many of those that made appointments failed to turn up.
Pete
I took a lad out in my W&D today who had a full CE licence because he wanted experience as he has a interview and assessment drive for a W&D position in Doncaster.
I believe it is in the students best intreast to learn on a split.the auto route is lazy and teaches no gear change skills.i also believe the caliber of driving now is so bad id think its dangerous for a newly passed drivers to rock up to there first shift and attempted to wing it in a manual.the auto route is lazy from the trainer and student.if you want the learner to have the best training available it has to be a manual
Hi everyone,
Newbie cat c license holder after passing my test today and would like to offer my opinion on this.
IMO learning in a manual is essential, I would not feel comfortable turning up to a new job (if I manage to get one) having only driven autos. I felt I learnt a lot more in the manual I was using ie hill starts and block changing than if I’d just driven an auto. I feel it would be dangerous for a newly qualified auto driver to jump straight in to a manual, whilst I agree there are many different manual systems the principle around them is the same.
With regards to the age of vehicle I was learning in a 55 plate daf cf and it did the the job absolutely fine. Learning in a new truck would have been nice but I wouldn’t have paid extra for it. A properly maintained truck can do just as good a job as a new one.
Providing the instructor is patient, can say what he/she needs to without shouting and only criticises or praises when necessary I think that’s all they need. Someone good to talk to is essential as well as it helps to relax the trainee (it did with me anyway)
A properly maintained truck can do just as good a job as a new one.
Absolutely. But how many trainers have got maintainence facilities and the required skills to actually make this happen? We have arguably one of the best training facilities in the country - but we dont have any of the above. This is why we choose to buy new vehicles which are subsequently looked after under warranty.
New entrants to the industry will perhaps not be aware that a “working” truck will typically cover around a million kilometres in the first 4 years of life. So by the time the trainer has bought it at, say, 6 years old it’s certainly past it’s best. I’m not saying it’s impossible to look after it and keep it absolutely perfect - but I am saying it’s not likely.
As always, there are exceptions. There are some remarkably low mileage vehicles on the market - MOD is a good source. There are also trainers who are skilled mechanics who are willing to work all night to maintain the vehicle before teaching all day again.
What is important is that the vehicle really does drive as it should and all the controls work as they should. And, of course, that it’s safe and legal in all respects. How the candidate finds this trainer must be difficult.
There have been comments that folk wouldn’t want to pay more for a new vehicle. IME there’s no need to charge more as maintainence costs/downtime are reduced so the vehicle is more productive.
The trucks that we drive today are completly unrecognisable from the ones that we passed our tests in 25 - 30 years ago , then we actually learnt how to drive a vehicle , it was coached and you needed skills and talent to be able to do it. Now you only need to learn how to steer a vehicle to where you want it to go. Descision making has been taking away from the driver , its all done for him , for example which gear to go uphill in .
By taking away all together the manual option you will never learn the ability to use the gears as a braking mechanism and you will probably be heavier on your braking and more liable to skid / jack knife in bad weather.
Keep the manual gearbox , this allows the driver to at least take one hand of the steering wheel and develope his driving skills .
Would you be prepared to pay a reasonable amount more for using a new vehicle as opposed to something 10 years old?
Would you prefer an Approved Driving Instructor?
Would you prefer a DSA LGV Instructor?
Hi there, ive just finished my lgv training and passed!
I did my training in a manual 8-speed (low and high range) with comfort shift, and were not allowed to use comfort shift except for 8 and a half on duals and motorways. i would rather train in a manual as i feel doing it in an automatic would make me feel rather uneasy if i had to move a manual for any reason.
New or old, i think the prices as they stand are ok, unless the instructors had to get a new fleet of training vans.
not entirely sure what this means
As above.
My instructor, a ex army parade sergeant. by day four of the intensive training, i absolutely hated him, very stern, quick to comment on any faults and very critical. however, after passing on the friday, i have the utmost respect for him, and know that he was doing everything to make my driving as best it can be. passed with 8 minors and most were issues with gear changes and getting the high-low range correct from moving off. (may have been a faultless drive if i was in an automatic)
Seems as though most people wouldn’t mind an older truck as long as it was well maintained, cost isn’t really an issue, and manual gearbox being the preference. That’s brilliant feedback as starting up has the potential to work out verrry expensive, thanks everyone for commenting
Would you prefer to train in Automatic? -
No, it should be the same as a car license. You learn in Manual you get unrestricted license, you learn automatic you are restricted to Automatic. I understand the reasoning behind it that more and more trucks these days are automatic…but not every ones goes on to drive a nice shiny automatic truck.
Would you be prepared to pay a reasonable amount more for using a new vehicle as opposed to something 10 years old?
As long as it is in good working order and provides a good example of what is to be expected of a truck then age shouldn’t really be an issue.
Would you prefer an Approved Driving Instructor? -
Tough one, on one hand yeah the benefits of having an approved driving instructor but even the ‘non’ approved will have some previous experience in driving and their contribution is invaluable
Would you prefer a DSA LGV Instructor? -
I’m happy using the training company I am with. If the DSA provided training then I would have looked at them as an option in the same way as I did all other companies I short listed for myself
Also, is there anything you would say to the person who trained you about the way or manner in which you were trained?
Good or bad points included.
Would you prefer an Approved Driving Instructor? -
Tough one, on one hand yeah the benefits of having an approved driving instructor but even the ‘non’ approved will have some previous experience in driving and their contribution is invaluable
Would you prefer a DSA LGV Instructor? -
I’m happy using the training company I am with. If the DSA provided training then I would have looked at them as an option in the same way as I did all other companies I short listed for myself
Really need to clear this up as it’s becoming potentially misleading and confusing to newbies and wannabes.
In the world of LGV, there is no such thing as an Approved Driving Instructor. That qualification belongs to cars only.
There is also a word missing from Q4. The term is DSA LGV REGISTERED INSTRUCTOR. The DSA do not offer training.
Some instructors choose to go for registration by taking 3 tests. DSA Accredited Training Centres are not allowed to use non- registered instructors. This is a form of quality control for the candidate. I find the comment that an ex driver who is not qualified to teach is ok most disturbing. I would have thought there were enough threads on this forum about poor training and knackered trucks to be a warning.
But apparently not! It seems that, no matter how poor the offering, the unqualified trainer with a banger will always scrape a living. As always, I have to say that not all unqualified trainers are bad. It’s just that they haven’t proved otherwise by going through the DSA system for whatever reason.
Peter Smythe:
I have to say that not all unqualified trainers are bad.
That was me any many others - no paperwork for being a LGV trainer at all
When I was testing out of Weedon I met a number of LGV instructors (maybe 6) who just passed the part 3 and all said that they only did it because their employer insisted on them doing it and they had learned nothing new so it makes me wonder if being on the qualified DSA LGV instructors register makes any great difference
Most of the instructors I met or worked with whether on the register or not had roughly the same first time pass rate … makes you think …
