History of old HGV 1,2,3 numbering system

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACT
21

Bewick:

Carryfast:
I’d guess that ‘never wanting to drive anything other than rigids’ would be an extreme unrealistic view of the job of a driver.However I’d certainly say that given the choice I’ve always ‘preferred’ rigids and A frame drawbars to artics in everything from visibility during turns,to handling and stability and ride quality and weight distribution tolerance.

Only serves to confirm the fact “CF” that you couldn’t “drive sheep (or goats) with a good dog” :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :wink: Bewick.

If I’ve read it right you were actually taught everything you know about the job from a ‘class 2’ driver driving a rigid/drawbar outfit. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

22

Carryfast:

Bewick:

Carryfast:
I’d guess that ‘never wanting to drive anything other than rigids’ would be an extreme unrealistic view of the job of a driver.However I’d certainly say that given the choice I’ve always ‘preferred’ rigids and A frame drawbars to artics in everything from visibility during turns,to handling and stability and ride quality and weight distribution tolerance.

Only serves to confirm the fact “CF” that you couldn’t “drive sheep (or goats) with a good dog” :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :wink: Bewick.

If I’ve read it right you were actually taught everything you know about the job from a ‘class 2’ driver driving a rigid/drawbar outfit. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

ouch , that were a way below the belt , i bet dennis will have bruises on his knees .

23

Carryfast:
I’d guess that ‘never wanting to drive anything other than rigids’ would be an extreme unrealistic view of the job of a driver.However I’d certainly say that given the choice I’ve always ‘preferred’ rigids and A frame drawbars to artics in everything from visibility during turns,to handling and stability and ride quality and weight distribution tolerance.

Well, as I said in my earlier post, there was very little point in me going for a Class 1 license when we only had rigid tipper’s and powder tanker’s in the fleet! No way did I want to be tramping all around the country sleeping across a bonnet/seats/bunk when I had a perfectly good bed at home, and most artic work in this area involved doing just that. We had long enough days on rigid tipper’s but we did get home every night…eventually! :laughing:

Pete.

24

Carryfast:

Bewick:

Carryfast:
I’d guess that ‘never wanting to drive anything other than rigids’ would be an extreme unrealistic view of the job of a driver.However I’d certainly say that given the choice I’ve always ‘preferred’ rigids and A frame drawbars to artics in everything from visibility during turns,to handling and stability and ride quality and weight distribution tolerance.

Only serves to confirm the fact “CF” that you couldn’t “drive sheep (or goats) with a good dog” :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :wink: Bewick.

If I’ve read it right you were actually taught everything you know about the job from a ‘class 2’ driver driving a rigid/drawbar outfit. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

You are quite right as far as my early “learning” was concerned “CF” but considering it was when I was in my teens and prior to being 21 you can have no issue with that surely :unamused: However my Son where our paths diverge is I was taught to reverse a turntable drawbar which tends to sort out the boys from the men and although I got as I could manage to reverse the Octopus with the trailer attached I was a complete bloody novice compared to the Driver,my mate Eric, and I can say that without a shadow of a doubt he could reverse the outfit as fast (probably faster) than you could reverse a “nancy boy” A frame combination,absolutely no danger “CF” Eric would make you look a right pillock(if that was humanely possible of course :laughing: )I bought my first artic in 1969 although I only drove it occaisionally but we got into artics big time from 71/72 and drove them plenty,day and night and I put them in places at times where an artic had never been at some of our drops :wink: Cheers Bewick.

25

i passed my car test on a thursday , friday the boss came to me " you’ll be driving that lorry monday , he’s jacked ". obviously before the advent of the hgv . when the hgv came in everybody and his dog suddenly became arctic drivers courtesy of a friend of a friend who signed their form . half of them had never driven a lorry , but thought it might come in handy sometime . the forms were never checked for authenticity by the ministry . it was the thin end of the wedge where holding a license made you a proper driver , regardless of the skills you had or had not . dave

26

Bewick:

Carryfast:

Bewick:

Carryfast:
I’d guess that ‘never wanting to drive anything other than rigids’ would be an extreme unrealistic view of the job of a driver.However I’d certainly say that given the choice I’ve always ‘preferred’ rigids and A frame drawbars to artics in everything from visibility during turns,to handling and stability and ride quality and weight distribution tolerance.

Only serves to confirm the fact “CF” that you couldn’t “drive sheep (or goats) with a good dog” :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :wink: Bewick.

If I’ve read it right you were actually taught everything you know about the job from a ‘class 2’ driver driving a rigid/drawbar outfit. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

You are quite right as far as my early “learning” was concerned “CF” but considering it was when I was in my teens and prior to being 21 you can have no issue with that surely :unamused: However my Son where our paths diverge is I was taught to reverse a turntable drawbar which tends to sort out the boys from the men and although I got as I could manage to reverse the Octopus with the trailer attached I was a complete bloody novice compared to the Driver,my mate Eric, and I can say that without a shadow of a doubt he could reverse the outfit as fast (probably faster) than you could reverse a “nancy boy” A frame combination,absolutely no danger “CF” Eric would make you look a right pillock(if that was humanely possible of course :laughing: )I bought my first artic in 1969 although I only drove it occaisionally but we got into artics big time from 71/72 and drove them plenty,day and night and I put them in places at times where an artic had never been at some of our drops :wink: Cheers Bewick.

Bewick I don’t like to break it to you but an ‘A frame drawbar outfit’ is the same thing as the turntable outfit in your obviously Norvern parlance. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

The point being that those nancy ‘close coupled’ caravan type jobs and artics are more or less the same thing in this company.While your ‘mate Eric’ wouldn’t have been given a class 1 under grandfather rights. :unamused: :wink:

27

Bewick I don’t like to break it to you but an ‘A frame drawbar outfit’ is the same thing as the turntable outfit in your obviously Norvern parlance. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

The point being that those nancy ‘close coupled’ caravan type jobs and artics are more or less the same thing in this company.While your ‘mate Eric’ wouldn’t have been given a class 1 under grandfather rights. :unamused: :wink:
[/quote]
A lot of people had classes of HGV licences who hadn’t been driving a lorry during the qualifying period to claim Grandfather rights. I wasn’t one of them. I drove through that period and qualified for class 2. I did have a go in an artic, but not in that period, and not for six months which was the minimum requirement between March 1969 and March 1970.Others just got someone to sign the form to say they had been driving during the period required.
Cheers Dave.

28

Dave the Renegade:
Bewick I don’t like to break it to you but an ‘A frame drawbar outfit’ is the same thing as the turntable outfit in your obviously Norvern parlance. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

The point being that those nancy ‘close coupled’ caravan type jobs and artics are more or less the same thing in this company.While your ‘mate Eric’ wouldn’t have been given a class 1 under grandfather rights. :unamused: :wink:

A lot of people had classes of HGV licences who hadn’t been driving a lorry during the qualifying period to claim Grandfather rights. I wasn’t one of them. I drove through that period and qualified for class 2. I did have a go in an artic, but not in that period, and not for six months which was the minimum requirement between March 1969 and March 1970.Others just got someone to sign the form to say they had been driving during the period required.
Cheers Dave.
[/quote]
But the actual rules did technically put artics and artic drivers above drawbars drawbar drivers.

Resulting in the situation where technically the driver of this would have ended up with a class 1 and therefore more job opportunities.

hcvs.co.uk/page7-gallery/Tra … 3_7240.jpg

As opposed to the driver of this who was ‘legally’ only categorised as a 2. :unamused:

fotki.com/Scottishtruckphotos/en … oth-2.html

The similar anomaly continues to this day in the form of a close coupled rigid and trailer pass provides a class 1.While at the same time an A frame and rigid driven under the old class 2 still stays as a C + drawbar only under Grandfather rights. :unamused:

29

Carryfast:

Dave the Renegade:
Bewick I don’t like to break it to you but an ‘A frame drawbar outfit’ is the same thing as the turntable outfit in your obviously Norvern parlance. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

The point being that those nancy ‘close coupled’ caravan type jobs and artics are more or less the same thing in this company.While your ‘mate Eric’ wouldn’t have been given a class 1 under grandfather rights. :unamused: :wink:

A lot of people had classes of HGV licences who hadn’t been driving a lorry during the qualifying period to claim Grandfather rights. I wasn’t one of them. I drove through that period and qualified for class 2. I did have a go in an artic, but not in that period, and not for six months which was the minimum requirement between March 1969 and March 1970.Others just got someone to sign the form to say they had been driving during the period required.
Cheers Dave.

But the actual rules did technically put artics and artic drivers above drawbars drawbar drivers.

Resulting in the situation where technically the driver of this would have ended up with a class 1 and therefore more job opportunities.

hcvs.co.uk/page7-gallery/Tra … 3_7240.jpg

As opposed to the driver of this who was ‘legally’ only categorised as a 2. :unamused:

fotki.com/Scottishtruckphotos/en … oth-2.html

The similar anomaly continues to this day in the form of a close coupled rigid and trailer pass provides a class 1.While at the same time an A frame and rigid driven under the old class 2 still stays as a C + drawbar only under Grandfather rights. :unamused:
[/quote]
I wasn’t referring to any anomaly. I was referring to the fact that a lot of driver who weren’t even driving lorries at that time, got HGV licences by getting people to sign the form to grant them Grandfathers Rights, which was as bent as anything.
Cheers Dave.

30

Correct there Dave, a lot of fitter’s got their licences that way by ‘friends’ saying that they had driven trucks for them when all they had really done was move them around in the yard! I missed out by a couple of years, hence why I took a test.

Pete.

31

I was only driving an artic for 3 months in the necessary 6 month period, so although I could have got a licence for a rigid legally, or fiddled the form to get a class 1 illegally through grandfather rights, I opted for the week’s course, with the test from Milnthorpe at the end of it.

I was glad I did. I learned a lot in that week. Since we were all effectively ‘self taught’, I’m sure many had, like me, settled into bad habits. My main one was braking unnecessarily going into a corner.

‘Get your bloody foot off the brake! The corner will take the speed off.’ Was ringing in my ears after the first couple of days.

I don’t remember many, if any, classroom lessons, it was all driving I think.

John

32

windrush:
Correct there Dave, a lot of fitter’s got their licences that way by ‘friends’ saying that they had driven trucks for them when all they had really done was move them around in the yard! I missed out by a couple of years, hence why I took a test.

Pete.

I have a tale regarding a Fitter at a firm I took over who had been,quite legitimately, entitled to a Class 1 licence via Grandfather rights in 1970 as the firm had run artics from 64/65 which he had driven many times.He turned the opertunity down as he reasoned they would have expected him to do the odd turn on the road now and again :open_mouth: Funny old world :laughing: Cheers Bewick.

33

Well I new a few people that got a class one as fitters, But I also new a signwriter who got one as he stated he collected Artics from customers premises the returned them when they had been painted & lettered up,Regards Larry.

34

In reply to that ■■■■ “CF” on an earlier post and for his info as far as I’m concerned a “turntable” drawbar trailer is not a ■■■■■■■ “A” frame and he was quite correct that I learned much of what stood me in good stead for my future years in the industry as a teenage mate on the Octopus and trailer.I did manage to master the rudiments of both driving forwards safely( often at night and fully freighted) and of course the basic skill of reversing a turntable trailer,but then this was prior to becoming 21 so I think I could be excused by virtue of age.As far as my mate Eric was concerned he did qualify for a Class 1 via grandfather rights and as far as I and my first driver ( soon to have become our long serving transport manager)were concerned we both took our Class 1 tests in 1970 on our Mastiff artic,and passed.Bewick.

35

I seem to remember a lot of Pickfords heavy haulage drivers were only entitled to a class2 licence, as in the qualifying period they were driving what was classed as a rigid vehicle. It didn’t seem to get through to the bean counters at licensing that these fellas were pedalling vehicles of enormous proportions and weights. I took my class1 in 1970. Although I had driven artics on off for a year or so l was only entitled to a class2 at the time, but really wanted the class1. The company I worked for sent me on a course for a week, the following week I took a loaded motor out and did a few drops around Newcastle, another one of our drivers had taken an empty motor to Gosforth and taken his class1.We changed over and I went out and took my test. We both passed but even if we’d failed, both of us could have carried on and driven without a “qualified” driver being with us due to the fact we could drive until our licences were due for renewal. I was really proud of my “black book” at the time. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Doesn’t time fly? It just seems like last week! :wink: :wink: :unamused: :unamused: Regards Kev

36

Bewick:
In reply to that [zb] “CF” on an earlier post and for his info as far as I’m concerned a “turntable” drawbar trailer is not a [zb] “A” frame and he was quite correct that I learned much of what stood me in good stead for my future years in the industry as a teenage mate on the Octopus and trailer.I did manage to master the rudiments of both driving forwards safely( often at night and fully freighted) and of course the basic skill of reversing a turntable trailer,but then this was prior to becoming 21 so I think I could be excused by virtue of age.As far as my mate Eric was concerned he did qualify for a Class 1 via grandfather rights

Bewick what shape was the drawbar looking from above.Did it look like this. :laughing:

axisfleetmanagement.co.uk/im … g?sfvrsn=4

Or did it look like this. :unamused:

alibaba.com/product-detail/3 … 67844.html

i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/142778 … _dolly.jpg

So which one most looks like a letter A. :unamused: :laughing:

As for Grandfather rights providing an artic licence for driving a rigid,with a trailer or not,the word is no chance.Unless it was another dodgy application or he’d also been driving artics.

37

I remember the farming company in southern Scotland that my dad "drove for " well his job title was tractor man but because of harvest time he had not enough book time before the change over ,worst thing was that after the harvest /ploughing he was on a albion reiver usually a float but sometimes hauling out of SAI fertiliser at Leith until the spring… based all over the place at company farms from grantshouse tae lairg to Maxton. Well they had the books inspected and my dad was refused grandfather rights ,he had worked this way for at least 8yrs…
I can remember a fair few o his auld friends that were with Wimpey got the same treatment.

38

Carryfast:

Bewick:
In reply to that [zb] “CF” on an earlier post and for his info as far as I’m concerned a “turntable” drawbar trailer is not a [zb] “A” frame and he was quite correct that I learned much of what stood me in good stead for my future years in the industry as a teenage mate on the Octopus and trailer.I did manage to master the rudiments of both driving forwards safely( often at night and fully freighted) and of course the basic skill of reversing a turntable trailer,but then this was prior to becoming 21 so I think I could be excused by virtue of age.As far as my mate Eric was concerned he did qualify for a Class 1 via grandfather rights

Bewick what shape was the drawbar looking from above.Did it look like this. :laughing:

axisfleetmanagement.co.uk/im … g?sfvrsn=4

Or did it look like this. :unamused:

alibaba.com/product-detail/3 … 67844.html

i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/142778 … _dolly.jpg

So which one most looks like a letter A. :unamused: :laughing:

As for Grandfather rights providing an artic licence for driving a rigid,with a trailer or not,the word is no chance.Unless it was another dodgy application or he’d also been driving artics.

To correct your last sentence “CF” my mate Eric drove an artic at Brady’s in the late 50’s early 60’s (a Leyland Beaver pre LAD cab) he also drove artics periodically during his years on the Octopus but he qualified during the required period at Bowater Scotts Barrow mill after he had left Brady’s in 1969 :wink: Now as for your question about the drawbar trailer that ran behind the Octopus during my time as mate--------It was a 50’s Crane 18ft flat (no headboard) on 1000x20 cross ply tyres,rear axle braking,turntable front axle with solid,round,steel “A” drawbar with ring at the end to attach to the towing jaw.Two line air pipes on palm couplings and multi electric plug.there were no cross over safety chains.Cheers Bewick.PS we carried a 1000x20 cross ply spare on the Octopus although it was shod on Dunlop RB6 900x20 Radials.

39

Bewick:
Now as for your question about the drawbar trailer that ran behind the Octopus during my time as mate--------It was a 50’s Crane 18ft flat (no headboard) on 1000x20 cross ply tyres,rear axle braking,turntable front axle with solid,round,steel “A” drawbar with ring at the end to attach to the towing jaw.

Is that an admission that when you’re talking about a ‘turntable’ type trailer and I’m talking about an A frame drawbar outfit we’re both talking about the same thing and not a ‘proper’ drawbar v one of those nancy close coupled type jobs. :smiling_imp: :wink: :smiley:

40

Hi Dennis, This wagon & drag that I had the pleasure of driving in the late 50s was a great experience I must say, The main driver was the late Tommy Nixon, He was a great fellow to work with along with all the other oldies at Baxters that I learned my skills If I may from If I may say so, Im not bragging but these blokes were simply the best, And I owe at lot to them for what I have got today, They used to say Larry just get on with the job as its chucked at you, It will never change they used to say , Well as you & I well know it has bloody changed & not for the best IMHO, long live the mems of these old hard working drivers (Not Truckers Drivers), Regards Larry.