Carryfast:
To be fair to our German friends and European partners from memory the old SK range was known for being virtually bullet proof and I was happy enough with the 1628 which I was given as a long term rental.Although even that had a fixed seat when even the old 1970’s DAF 2800 had a more comfortable Bostrom suspension seat fitted as standard.
While I’d guess that modern technology and reliability and easy maintenance is mutually exclusive regardless of which make it is.
I think you probably mean the NG range, CF, as the 1628 was an NG (not an SK) - and yes they were reliable. The SK wasn’t at all bullet-proof, not least because of its disastrous EPS gearbox! Robert
It was one of Ryder’s rental fleet I’m not sure of its exact year but NG to SK seems to have been 1988 so might have been a pre 88.But the 1628 seems to have crossed over from the NG to SK regardless ?.Also from memory the EPS was also only an option not fitted on a take it or leave it basis.
While even the later early 90’s ‘Powerliner’ 2534 6 wheeler rigid I drove was specced with a manual option not EPS.I actually preferred the older 1628 to that evil uncomfortable gutless POS and it’s car like steering wheel.
SK was the second NG. Rather than NG was New Generation from 1972 to 1980, but then there was another New Generation so I distinguish them by cab shape, the old square shape with three lines, the rounded front and the facelift rounded cab, confused so am I.
The Only Mercedes I could fall in love with is the 16 litre V10 in the 1632
I’m with you on the 1632, though I never actually drove one. But SKs had the modified NG cab with the ‘ironed out’ quarter-light window and a better appointed interior. They also came with more modern engines (no problem there) and - this was the defining characteristic - EPS transmission. EPS was truely awful, as described in this forum on legion threads.
ERF-NGC-European:
But SKs had the modified NG cab with the ‘ironed out’ quarter-light window and a better appointed interior. They also came with more modern engines (no problem there) and - this was the defining characteristic - EPS transmission. EPS was truely awful, as described in this forum on legion threads.
It seems to be only in the Powerliner 2 where it became standard fit ?.I guess ours must have been at the cut off point of Powerliner 1 where proper shift was still available.
Just read some of the input on this thread and to my mind Mercs have always been Stuttgart hill stopper’s, never had one in the fleet and it makes me wonder how they get there cars to go so well but never got it on with the trucks, Buzzer.
Buzzer:
Just read some of the input on this thread and to my mind Mercs have always been Stuttgart hill stopper’s, never had one in the fleet and it makes me wonder how they get there cars to go so well but never got it on with the trucks, Buzzer.
A bit like Gardner have to question the quoted ouptut figures of their old NA V8’s and the even worse turbo V6 in the ‘powerliner’ at least.
As for their cars theye were all lumbered with OHC complication and in most cases outgunned by American pushrod simplicity.Also usually tied to an auto box boat anchor added behind it.
A quick check of the used car ads and prices more than proves it especially the older classics.It goes along the lines of you can have two or three Mercs for the price of a good yank.
ERF-NGC-European:
But SKs had the modified NG cab with the ‘ironed out’ quarter-light window and a better appointed interior. They also came with more modern engines (no problem there) and - this was the defining characteristic - EPS transmission. EPS was truely awful, as described in this forum on legion threads.
It seems to be only in the Powerliner 2 where it became standard fit ?.I guess ours must have been at the cut off point of Powerliner 1 where proper shift was still available.
No, no. Firstly EPS was only standard fit on right-hand drive, our continental cousins had to pay extra for it. RHD Powerliner 1s all left the factory with EPS on a ZF 'box, Powerliner 2 got the new Mercedes in house 'box with the actuators inside the housing. EPS again was standard fit on RHD it was however a delete option, rarely taken; F Edmondson from Morecambe however did to my knowledge have a number (15?) 1838 G cabs with manuals, they were described as like stirring a suet pudding.
ERF-NGC-European:
But SKs had the modified NG cab with the ‘ironed out’ quarter-light window and a better appointed interior. They also came with more modern engines (no problem there) and - this was the defining characteristic - EPS transmission. EPS was truely awful, as described in this forum on legion threads.
It seems to be only in the Powerliner 2 where it became standard fit ?.I guess ours must have been at the cut off point of Powerliner 1 where proper shift was still available.
No, no. Firstly EPS was only standard fit on right-hand drive, our continental cousins had to pay extra for it. RHD Powerliner 1s all left the factory with EPS on a ZF 'box, Powerliner 2 got the new Mercedes in house 'box with the actuators inside the housing. EPS again was standard fit on RHD it was however a delete option, rarely taken; F Edmondson from Morecambe however did to my knowledge have a number (15?) 1838 G cabs with manuals, they were described as like stirring a suet pudding.
I certainly drove an early 90’s rhd 2534, whichever powerliner, with a proper manual shift.I also spent a long morning waiting for the linkage to be re welded for what seemed to be the umpteenth time in its life.When it wasn’t wearing out my left arm instead.
I’m guessing its previous drivers didn’t at least try to reduce the burden using double de clutched shifts.I also know the difference having done a driving assessment with an even worse piece of EPS junk and laughed at the thing’s incompetence.
Realistically the best improvement for a Merc would be only turbo V8 with a Fuller box conversion or 5 gallons of petrol and a match.
ERF-NGC-European:
But SKs had the modified NG cab with the ‘ironed out’ quarter-light window and a better appointed interior. They also came with more modern engines (no problem there) and - this was the defining characteristic - EPS transmission. EPS was truely awful, as described in this forum on legion threads.
It seems to be only in the Powerliner 2 where it became standard fit ?.I guess ours must have been at the cut off point of Powerliner 1 where proper shift was still available.
No, no. Firstly EPS was only standard fit on right-hand drive, our continental cousins had to pay extra for it. RHD Powerliner 1s all left the factory with EPS on a ZF 'box, Powerliner 2 got the new Mercedes in house 'box with the actuators inside the housing. EPS again was standard fit on RHD it was however a delete option, rarely taken; F Edmondson from Morecambe however did to my knowledge have a number (15?) 1838 G cabs with manuals, they were described as like stirring a suet pudding.
I certainly drove an early 90’s rhd 2534, whichever powerliner, with a proper manual shift.I also spent a long morning waiting for the linkage to be re welded for what seemed to be the umpteenth time in its life.When it wasn’t wearing out my left arm instead.
I’m guessing its previous drivers didn’t at least try to reduce the burden using double de clutched shifts.I also know the difference having done a driving assessment with an even worse piece of EPS junk and laughed at the thing’s incompetence.
Realistically the best improvement for a Merc would be only turbo V8 with a Fuller box conversion or 5 gallons of petrol and a match.
The first EPS i drove was the new generation 1729 which to be fair i thought the cab was a big improvement over the older version . I didn’t have much bother with the EPS it was the gutless engine that i didn’t like . We have 4 mid lift and 3 tag axle 450s between 2015 and 2018 and they are pile of crap. The whole design is a joke if you are over 6ft 4
I’ve driven (on and off) all the Actros versions over the years (meaning the mk1, to 4), can’t say they were that bad actually. What’s more, I swapped a Scania once for a Actros, if you think the Merc is crap, I can assure that the Scania was much worse! Was the then new R-series, what a pile of ■■■■■■ If you think the EPS 'box was bad, that Opticruise was on a whole different level!
And what about the interior, the bunk in the R-series was just pathetic as was the material they’ve used. My old 4 series was just bulletproof in that sense.
Yes, the engines were gutless (apart from the V8s), but they were good on fuel efficiency. And my last one
hardly used that dreadful ad-blue. Only let me down once, when some module of the gearbox packed up. Other than that, it only went to the workshop for servicing.
ERF-NGC-European:
But SKs had the modified NG cab with the ‘ironed out’ quarter-light window and a better appointed interior. They also came with more modern engines (no problem there) and - this was the defining characteristic - EPS transmission. EPS was truely awful, as described in this forum on legion threads.
It seems to be only in the Powerliner 2 where it became standard fit ?.I guess ours must have been at the cut off point of Powerliner 1 where proper shift was still available.
No, no. Firstly EPS was only standard fit on right-hand drive, our continental cousins had to pay extra for it. RHD Powerliner 1s all left the factory with EPS on a ZF 'box, Powerliner 2 got the new Mercedes in house 'box with the actuators inside the housing. EPS again was standard fit on RHD it was however a delete option, rarely taken; F Edmondson from Morecambe however did to my knowledge have a number (15?) 1838 G cabs with manuals, they were described as like stirring a suet pudding.
I certainly drove an early 90’s rhd 2534, whichever powerliner, with a proper manual shift.I also spent a long morning waiting for the linkage to be re welded for what seemed to be the umpteenth time in its life.When it wasn’t wearing out my left arm instead.
I’m guessing its previous drivers didn’t at least try to reduce the burden using double de clutched shifts.I also know the difference having done a driving assessment with an even worse piece of EPS junk and laughed at the thing’s incompetence.
Realistically the best improvement for a Merc would be only turbo V8 with a Fuller box conversion or 5 gallons of petrol and a match.
The '34 was a Powerliner 2 and therefore could be ordered with a manual. As for a Fuller, if people really wanted one they should have ordered them when the '28 was offered in the UK in the 80s with the option of a 13 speed Fuller and after 3 years on the option list they sold, so I was told by a Merc tech guy, the grand total of one so unsurprisingly it was withdrawn due to lack of interest.
One local haulier carting blocks had a Merc with EPS back in the nineties and the driver really liked it after he became used to it, I can’t remember it being troublesome either.
acd1202:
As for a Fuller, if people really wanted one they should have ordered them when the '28 was offered in the UK in the 80s with the option of a 13 speed Fuller and after 3 years on the option list they sold, so I was told by a Merc tech guy, the grand total of one so unsurprisingly it was withdrawn due to lack of interest.
Could use the same argument in reverse how did MAN sell any trucks equipped with 13 speed Fuller or Twin Split v synchro Merc.
There could be lots of reasons why it wasn’t chosen by customers and none of them because it wasn’t the better option.Especially when sold on in the used market.
acd1202:
As for a Fuller, if people really wanted one they should have ordered them when the '28 was offered in the UK in the 80s with the option of a 13 speed Fuller and after 3 years on the option list they sold, so I was told by a Merc tech guy, the grand total of one so unsurprisingly it was withdrawn due to lack of interest.
Could use the same argument in reverse how did MAN sell any trucks equipped with 13 speed Fuller or Twin Split v synchro Merc.
There could be lots of reasons why it wasn’t chosen by customers and none of them because it wasn’t the better option.Especially when sold on in the used market.
MAN was about the best vehicle i drove fitted with Eaton Twin Split, that MAN engine would raise and drop revs instantly went perfectly with the ETS, other engines which didn’t rev or drop revs as quickly weren’t as good in my humble.
A mate describes it as almost scalextric like, constant acceleration with barely a split second between changes, compared to the ponderous automated manuals of today we’ve gone back 30 years in drivetrain efficiency not forward.
acd1202:
As for a Fuller, if people really wanted one they should have ordered them when the '28 was offered in the UK in the 80s with the option of a 13 speed Fuller and after 3 years on the option list they sold, so I was told by a Merc tech guy, the grand total of one so unsurprisingly it was withdrawn due to lack of interest.
Could use the same argument in reverse how did MAN sell any trucks equipped with 13 speed Fuller or Twin Split v synchro Merc.
There could be lots of reasons why it wasn’t chosen by customers and none of them because it wasn’t the better option.Especially when sold on in the used market.
MAN was about the best vehicle i drove fitted with Eaton Twin Split, that MAN engine would raise and drop revs instantly went perfectly with the ETS, other engines which didn’t rev or drop revs as quickly weren’t as good in my humble.
A mate describes it as almost scalextric like, constant acceleration with barely a split second between changes, compared to the ponderous automated manuals of today we’ve gone back 30 years in drivetrain efficiency not forward.
Juddian:
MAN was about the best vehicle i drove fitted with Eaton Twin Split, that MAN engine would raise and drop revs instantly went perfectly with the ETS, other engines which didn’t rev or drop revs as quickly weren’t as good in my humble.
A mate describes it as almost scalextric like, constant acceleration with barely a split second between changes, compared to the ponderous automated manuals of today we’ve gone back 30 years in drivetrain efficiency not forward.
I drove a Fraikin supplied MAN as a long term rental after the Scania 112 and Merc 1628.
That thing was more or less the Rolls Royce of trucks by comparison.The only thing I preferred to the DAF 95 and it came out before it.Lovely motor all round excellent cab and driving position nice seat and plenty of room and the motor was turbine smooth and pulled like a train.
Ironically I thought at the time it was a 13 speed Fuller but with hindsight maybe a twin split and I didn’t know it but I’m sure there would have been no way of confusing the two to drive although I wasn’t even aware of the twin split in the day.
But the year and type doesn’t seem right for it to have been a 13 speed ( mid/late 80’s reg from memory ).
Strange and a mystery.
Juddian:
MAN was about the best vehicle i drove fitted with Eaton Twin Split, that MAN engine would raise and drop revs instantly went perfectly with the ETS, other engines which didn’t rev or drop revs as quickly weren’t as good in my humble.
A mate describes it as almost scalextric like, constant acceleration with barely a split second between changes, compared to the ponderous automated manuals of today we’ve gone back 30 years in drivetrain efficiency not forward.
I drove a Fraikin supplied MAN as a long term rental after the Scania 112 and Merc 1628.
That thing was more or less the Rolls Royce of trucks by comparison.The only thing I preferred to the DAF 95 and it came out before it.Lovely motor all round excellent cab and driving position nice seat and plenty of room and the motor was turbine smooth and pulled like a train.
Ironically I thought at the time it was a 13 speed Fuller but with hindsight maybe a twin split and I didn’t know it but I’m sure there would have been no way of confusing the two to drive although I wasn’t even aware of the twin split in the day.
But the year and type doesn’t seem right for it to have been a 13 speed ( mid/late 80’s reg from memory ).
Strange and a mystery.
Mid-'80s it would have been a 13-sp Fuller. The F90 with Twin-splitter arrived on an F-plate in about '89 IIRC.
Juddian:
MAN was about the best vehicle i drove fitted with Eaton Twin Split, that MAN engine would raise and drop revs instantly went perfectly with the ETS, other engines which didn’t rev or drop revs as quickly weren’t as good in my humble.
A mate describes it as almost scalextric like, constant acceleration with barely a split second between changes, compared to the ponderous automated manuals of today we’ve gone back 30 years in drivetrain efficiency not forward.
I drove a Fraikin supplied MAN as a long term rental after the Scania 112 and Merc 1628.
That thing was more or less the Rolls Royce of trucks by comparison.The only thing I preferred to the DAF 95 and it came out before it.Lovely motor all round excellent cab and driving position nice seat and plenty of room and the motor was turbine smooth and pulled like a train.
Ironically I thought at the time it was a 13 speed Fuller but with hindsight maybe a twin split and I didn’t know it but I’m sure there would have been no way of confusing the two to drive although I wasn’t even aware of the twin split in the day.
But the year and type doesn’t seem right for it to have been a 13 speed ( mid/late 80’s reg from memory ).
Strange and a mystery.
Mid-'80s it would have been a 13-sp Fuller. The F90 with Twin-splitter arrived on an F-plate in about '89 IIRC.
Might have found the missing link here Robert.An F90 ? with a Fuller ?.
It deffo had the same type of gear shift as this one.
As noted, the first twin split MAN’s i drove were F90 but on an E plate (was that 86 or 7?), previously the 331 was indeed the fuller box, prior to that i drove a 232 now and again with the column change, whether that was 13 speed i can’t remember tbh.
I remember the 332 F90 didn’t have anything like the acceleration and sheer hill climbing pulling power of the F8? 331, but what it lost in power it more than gained in speed, having the dubious ability of cruising happily at 95 and i don’t mean kph either
As was usual in those days, you just got handed the keys to that column change 232 and just went and got on with it (not a bloody handbook or gearchange label to be seen), luckily i’d cut me teeth on S39 Fodens so anything else of the day was easier…however like everyone else i played quite a tune on the twin splitter before it clicked
Carryfast:
I drove a Fraikin supplied MAN as a long term rental after the Scania 112 and Merc 1628.
That thing was more or less the Rolls Royce of trucks by comparison.The only thing I preferred to the DAF 95 and it came out before it.Lovely motor all round excellent cab and driving position nice seat and plenty of room and the motor was turbine smooth and pulled like a train.
Ironically I thought at the time it was a 13 speed Fuller but with hindsight maybe a twin split and I didn’t know it but I’m sure there would have been no way of confusing the two to drive although I wasn’t even aware of the twin split in the day.
But the year and type doesn’t seem right for it to have been a 13 speed ( mid/late 80’s reg from memory ).
Strange and a mystery.
Mid-'80s it would have been a 13-sp Fuller. The F90 with Twin-splitter arrived on an F-plate in about '89 IIRC.
[/quote]
Might have found the missing link here Robert.An F90 ? with a Fuller ?.
It deffo had the same type of gear shift as this one.
So I’m going with '87 F90 with a 13 speed Fuller just as I remembered it ?.
[/quote]
Yes CF, I’m aware of those examples and a handful of others, but they were all German-registered and may have been retro-fitted. As far as I am aware no F90s with RHD or LHD were fitted with them in UK: you could have a Twin-splitter or a ZF Eco-split.
Carryfast:
So I’m going with '87 F90 with a 13 speed Fuller just as I remembered it ?.
Yes CF, I’m aware of those examples and a handful of others, but they were all German-registered and may have been retro-fitted. As far as I am aware no F90s with RHD or LHD were fitted with them in UK: you could have a Twin-splitter or a ZF Eco-split.
I think it would be impossible to confuse twin splitter v 13 speed Fuller v Eco Split.
It seems to have had a 13 speed from memory with the gear shift control exactly as in the F8 example and the lever in the F90 example shown respectively.
As it stands I’d go with the possibility that it might have been possible to order a UK F90 with a 13 speed fuller in it by twisting MAN’s arm and Fraikin seems to have done it.If anyone had the clout to be able to do it they probably would have.Probably wanting to keep to the same spec here as they knew on their continental operations.
There are one or two other ex Carryfast on here who also drove them maybe they could confirm it.
I had the 1735 in the picture below brand new in 1989, slightly cramped compared to an F12 or an R cab Scania, but it would take a well driven 142 to leave it behind on a hill and doing Austria and Italy it saw plenty of hills. Top speed on it was mental, the mirrors would fold back (with a bang) long before it ran out of revs, coincidentally the top speed came as a result of the only problem it had whilst I had it.
Initially it, like all Merc SK,had a factory speed limiter set to 110km/h, I was in South Mimms and lost my throttle when I went to leave, Merc came out from the Edgware Rd and fixed it, but "unfortunately " I lost the speed limiter in the process, the fitter told me it would go off the clock, he was right too.
The EPS was never any trouble, either reliability wise or from a driver’s perspective, EPS was a switch instead of a gear lever and used as it was intended it was fine, a little slow compared to a Fuller, but no slower than a ZF ecosplit with that horrible slap across range change. Also I religiously ran the box through its reset cycle at least once a week, IIRC you had the engine off and ignition on, then hit the function button and pushed the stick forwards, the opposite of getting reverse basically, can’t remember if the clutch had to be up or down, but it went through every gear and recalibrated itself.
As some of you know and the rest of you will now know the story behind my username, I was once briefly a salesman for a Merc dealer and they are, shall we say, not the best. Wandering around the yard on a smoke break i would see the same lorries sat there for weeks at a time and more than once I was shown the door and told to stay away by people that had a bad experience with Merc in the past, it wasn’t so much the lorries, no matter what badge is on the grille, the lorry that doesn’t break down is yet to be made, it was the dealer service every time.
from memory the old SK range was known for being virtually bullet proof and I was happy enough with the 1628 which I was given as a long term rental.Although even that had a fixed seat when even the old 1970’s DAF 2800 had a more comfortable Bostrom suspension seat fitted as standard.
