cav551:
SK units with the poxy vee 6 engine
Sound as bad to work on as they were to drive.The dyno figures advertised for that POS just had to have been dodgy. 
Mike Ponsonby:
CTS MIDLANDS (TAMWORTH) i think converted theres to manuals
and im sure they did a few outsiders they were big s k usersquote=“ERF-NGC-European”]
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
To be fair to our German friends and European partnersWhile I’d guess that modern technology and reliability and easy maintenance is mutually exclusive regardless of which make it is.
I think you probably mean the NG range, CF, as the 1628 was an NG (not an SK) - and yes they were reliable. The SK wasn’t at all bullet-proof, not least because of its disastrous EPS gearbox! Robert
It was one of Ryder’s rental fleet I’m not sure of its exact year but NG to SK seems to have been 1988 so might have been a pre 88.But the 1628 seems to have crossed over from the NG to SK regardless ?.Also from memory the EPS was also only an option not fitted on a take it or leave it basis.
While even the later early 90’s ‘Powerliner’
Incorrect with regard to tractive units. When the SK range was introduced you had to have EPS as Mercedes chose to force the issue by stating ‘this is how it is now.’ It lost them a lot of UK customers, most of whom switched to Scania. I understand that the only SK units to have been released with non-EPS boxes were those that went to the Bulgarian state operator, Somat.
Robert
[/quote]
Hi all,
The Sk range (17 series)was released in the U.K. in 1988,then the 1628 became the 1729.Afaiaa on the earlier Ng units anything from 1635 upward in the U.K. was eps unless the customer paid extra for a manual.The 17 series SK was the same from 1729 and upwards.My later 1853 was built by Merc in Germany for an Italian customer,with a 16 speed manual gearbox.Intresting to hear about the heavy knock across manual gearshift,I remember that very well.Yet oddly mine isn’t like that? I’m guessing a different smoother linkage on a LHD? With regard to Gingerfold,s original post and comment,I agree 100%,though Tbf every European brand imo,now produce three year throw away trucks.
Regards Andrew.
not in my yard 10 years easily out of mine
pete 359:
quote=“ERF-NGC-European”]Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
To be fair to our German friends and European partnersWhile I’d guess that modern technology and reliability and easy maintenance is mutually exclusive regardless of which make it is.
I think you probably mean the NG range, CF, as the 1628 was an NG (not an SK) - and yes they were reliable. The SK wasn’t at all bullet-proof, not least because of its disastrous EPS gearbox! Robert
It was one of Ryder’s rental fleet I’m not sure of its exact year but NG to SK seems to have been 1988 so might have been a pre 88.But the 1628 seems to have crossed over from the NG to SK regardless ?.Also from memory the EPS was also only an option not fitted on a take it or leave it basis.
While even the later early 90’s ‘Powerliner’
Incorrect with regard to tractive units. When the SK range was introduced you had to have EPS as Mercedes chose to force the issue by stating ‘this is how it is now.’ It lost them a lot of UK customers, most of whom switched to Scania. I understand that the only SK units to have been released with non-EPS boxes were those that went to the Bulgarian state operator, Somat.
Robert
[/quote]
Hi all,
The Sk range (17 series)was released in the U.K. in 1988,then the 1628 became the 1729.Afaiaa on the earlier Ng units anything from 1635 upward in the U.K. was eps unless the customer paid extra for a manual.The 17 series SK was the same from 1729 and upwards.My later 1853 was built by Merc in Germany for an Italian customer,with a 16 speed manual gearbox.Intresting to hear about the heavy knock across manual gearshift,I remember that very well.Yet oddly mine isn’t like that? I’m guessing a different smoother linkage on a LHD? With regard to Gingerfold,s original post and comment,I agree 100%,though Tbf every European brand imo,now produce three year throw away trucks.
Regards Andrew.
[/quote]
I was driving Mercs during the changeover period. The last of the NGs was the 1633 IIRC and that remains, for me, the last good Merc. It had the awful ZF Ecosplit knock-thru’ (but far better than EPS!) but was reliable and went like stink. The 2035 I drove had the NG cab but was basically an early SK, complete with bollox EPS. I was told at the time that Merc would not supply a manual option for love nor money. Only the rigid SKs I drove, as CF rightly pointed out, continued to have the ZF manual.
I later drove early Actroses with the Telligent 'box, which were just as dreadful. The only SK I actually quite enjoyed was a trip to Morocco in the big high-cabbed version of the 1850 and that was a proper uphill-downhill machine in the Spanish mountains! Robert
I never drove or worked on Mercedes (apart from fitting some fan belts to one from Germany with a non tilting cab at Leicester Forest services back in the 70’s) but we had a couple of OD/s who had four wheeler tippers and they ran them for at least ten or more years with few problems. I think they were of 1982 vintage? One lad carting blocks was given a unit with EPS and, after a few initial missgivings, reckoned it was a great system? I don’t know how reliable it was though.
Pete.
ERF-NGC-European:
Hi all,
The Sk range (17 series)was released in the U.K. in 1988,then the 1628 became the 1729.Afaiaa on the earlier Ng units anything from 1635 upward in the U.K. was eps unless the customer paid extra for a manual.The 17 series SK was the same from 1729 and upwards.My later 1853 was built by Merc in Germany for an Italian customer,with a 16 speed manual gearbox.Intresting to hear about the heavy knock across manual gearshift,I remember that very well.Yet oddly mine isn’t like that? I’m guessing a different smoother linkage on a LHD? With regard to Gingerfold,s original post and comment,I agree 100%,though Tbf every European brand imo,now produce three year throw away trucks.
Regards Andrew.
I was driving Mercs during the changeover period. The last of the NGs was the 1633 IIRC and that remains, for me, the last good Merc. It had the awful ZF Ecosplit knock-thru’ (but far better than EPS!) but was reliable and went like stink. The 2035 I drove had the NG cab but was basically an early SK, complete with bollox EPS. I was told at the time that Merc would not supply a manual option for love nor money. Only the rigid SKs I drove, as CF rightly pointed out, continued to have the ZF manual.
I later drove early Actroses with the Telligent 'box, which were just as dreadful. The only SK I actually quite enjoyed was a trip to Morocco in the big high-cabbed version of the 1850 and that was a proper uphill-downhill machine in the Spanish mountains! Robert
[/quote]
Just picking up on a couple of comments. Firstly, the automated 'box in these Actros. Whenever I move one in the yard it is impossible to drive them smoothly unit only. They lurch, jump, etc. In fact I moved one this morning from one end of my yard to the other and it was like a kangaroo on a sugar rush! If I’d gone another 100 yards I’d have been sea sick! After moving the Merc I moved a DAF CF to couple it to a trailer, (the unit and trailer were both going for service), the DAF has more Kms on it than the Merc and when the DAF finally decided to give me a gear with its automated box at least it moved smoothly.
I have both DAFs and Mercs on 63 plates, they have all done between 800,000 to 850,000 Kms. The cabs on the Mercs shake, rattle, bang to a greater or lesser degree. The DAF cabs are as solid and rattle free as they day they were made. I do agree with the comment that all modern trucks have a limited service life, and it does seem to be getting shorter.
ERF-NGC-European:
I was driving Mercs during the changeover period. The last of the NGs was the 1633 IIRC and that remains, for me, the last good Merc. It had the awful ZF Ecosplit knock-thru’ (but far better than EPS!) but was reliable and went like stink. The 2035 I drove had the NG cab but was basically an early SK, complete with bollox EPS. I was told at the time that Merc would not supply a manual option for love nor money. Only the rigid SKs I drove, as CF rightly pointed out, continued to have the ZF manual.
I later drove early Actroses with the Telligent 'box, which were just as dreadful. The only SK I actually quite enjoyed was a trip to Morocco in the big high-cabbed version of the 1850 and that was a proper uphill-downhill machine in the Spanish mountains! Robert
I guess that the Ryder 1628 unit I drove was probably an E reg so probably similar on the point of changeover from NG to SK although I totally missed the distinction.But like the later rigid ‘Powerliner’ was deffo a manual option.
I think the later 16 speed manual option used in the SK was an in house Merc box,as opposed to ZF in the NG ?.The shift quality being worse in the case of the latter if that’s possible.On that note I think the move to EPS was probably thought by Mercs management as being more by necessity than design because the Merc synchro manual boxes and/or their installation were just so bleedin bad to use.Especially when compared to DAF 85/95.Although like you I still preferred to put up with that than being lumbered with the,at best,stupid slow witted EPS lash up.Which I only ever drove once on a driving assessment for an international job and told the interviewer what I thought of it .To his seeming agreement and I got the job but which then fell through before I started I’m guessing because of typical elitist pecking order politics.With hindsight maybe a lucky break because I soon would have got fed up with driving around Europe with something with a box full of neutrals. 
My experience was in the late 80s The Mercs we had, had coffee me from mergers and acquisitions - hated them - very light and short of puff!! Especially after 2 years or so.
Beeches Stoke had an auction and I was asked if I wanted put anything in - so we had a clear out of trailers, 4 Mercs plus 4 small Leyland artics which were really underpowered. As they went under the hammer I was amazed at the price being paid - I judged up to buyer and started a conversation - you like those Mercs etc - his reply was I need them to meet an order for Singapore that has to be shipped this week - oh yes - have you any more? Was the question - AH yes - how about 4 more Mercs and 2 Leylands at the same price!? same condition etc - yes - Deal done - shipped to Felixstowe on the Tuesday - paid and gone.
Bought some more Daf 2800s
Although was canvassed on a regular bass plus 2 factory visits I can honestly say I was never tempted to buy HGVs in my life except the Sprinter vans and I guess things haven’t changed.
Ken b
gingerfold:
^^^^^^^^^
So as not to be thought totally negative about Mercedes, as a company that has bought well over 1,000 Mercedes in the last 8 years or so, it is the dealerships that let them down. As a company with as many depots and out-based trucks that we have then we have to use the dealerships, and there are problems with almost every one of these dealerships. This poor backup has cost them dearly with us, we have bought only 30 new Mercs in the last 12 months, the replacement fleet purchases a total of about 300 units in that time have been DAF and Scania. Our main depot is forced into keeping the Mercs, none of the depot managers want them, mainly because of the abysmal back-up and after service.Just as a comparison I had a problem with a 12 months old DAF XF a couple of weeks ago that was very unusual and had never happened before according to DAF. There were circumstances a couple of days before the breakdown that I believe contributed to it, but it was totally outside of our control and which I cannot divulge. Anyway the driver reported a serious safety related fault with it that had suddenly occurred on the Monday evening. DAF AID attended and found the fault, something the experienced DAF mechanic attending said he had never experienced before. For safety reasons the truck was recovered to the nearest DAF dealership some 80 miles from my depot. The part needed for the repair had to be sourced from Eindhoven, even though this DAF model is built at Leyland. They gave an estimated time of completed repair for midday the following day. It was actually ready at 08.00 the following morning and I was kept updated frequently of progress. A level of service and communication far superior to that of Mercedes.
The European dealerships are even worse!
I inherited a large fleet of Mercedes- down to two now
Replacements are now all DAF, with the Volvo FH failing to make the grade with reliability, spares availability and dealer performance
240 Gardner:
gingerfold:
^^^^^^^^^
So as not to be thought totally negative about Mercedes, as a company that has bought well over 1,000 Mercedes in the last 8 years or so, it is the dealerships that let them down. As a company with as many depots and out-based trucks that we have then we have to use the dealerships, and there are problems with almost every one of these dealerships. This poor backup has cost them dearly with us, we have bought only 30 new Mercs in the last 12 months, the replacement fleet purchases a total of about 300 units in that time have been DAF and Scania. Our main depot is forced into keeping the Mercs, none of the depot managers want them, mainly because of the abysmal back-up and after service.Just as a comparison I had a problem with a 12 months old DAF XF a couple of weeks ago that was very unusual and had never happened before according to DAF. There were circumstances a couple of days before the breakdown that I believe contributed to it, but it was totally outside of our control and which I cannot divulge. Anyway the driver reported a serious safety related fault with it that had suddenly occurred on the Monday evening. DAF AID attended and found the fault, something the experienced DAF mechanic attending said he had never experienced before. For safety reasons the truck was recovered to the nearest DAF dealership some 80 miles from my depot. The part needed for the repair had to be sourced from Eindhoven, even though this DAF model is built at Leyland. They gave an estimated time of completed repair for midday the following day. It was actually ready at 08.00 the following morning and I was kept updated frequently of progress. A level of service and communication far superior to that of Mercedes.
The European dealerships are even worse!
I inherited a large fleet of Mercedes- down to two now
Replacements are now all DAF, with the Volvo FH failing to make the grade with reliability, spares availability and dealer performance
I have already mentioned my bad experience with Mercs but Dafs were pretty bad too with endless backward and forward trips to the dealer for ABS/EBS or Emmission warning lights on .This was mainly on the auto box verslions and around 10 years ago but there’s a small haulier near me who runs Dafs and he is having problems too on 2 brand new 106s and the dealer isn’t fixing them. So it sounds a familiar tune
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is too much electronic gizmos on every modern truck marque. One of my 18 plate DAFs is constantly showing an amber engine management warning fault. It has been into the dealers several times but they cannot permanently clear it, it’s known as a phantom fault, or in other words they don’t know what’s causing it. They now think that it’s a wiring fault and on its next service they are going to try and find the faulty wire. Good luck with that one I say.
Returning to my original post. The Actros in question finally went back into service yesterday, two weeks and one day after breaking down. They must have done something to it because the engine now sounds quiet and smooth rather than the usual Merc Actros crackling and uneven running noise they usually make.
gingerfold:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is too much electronic gizmos on every modern truck marque. One of my 18 plate DAFs is constantly showing an amber engine management warning fault. It has been into the dealers several times but they cannot permanently clear it, it’s known as a phantom fault, or in other words they don’t know what’s causing it. They now think that it’s a wiring fault and on its next service they are going to try and find the faulty wire. Good luck with that one I say.Returning to my original post. The Actros in question finally went back into service yesterday, two weeks and one day after breaking down. They must have done something to it because the engine now sounds quiet and smooth rather than the usual Merc Actros crackling and uneven running noise they usually make.
H Graham,
I agree 100%,cars are exactly the same,dealers frustrated,not nearly as much as the owners! Ironically,whilst at a hauliers yard only yesterday,He told me that another of their 19 plate 480 Actros’was in having a new engine,the second one since May.A previous post made a good point in saying that it’s every automotive brand.
Regards Andrew.
That is true Graham the modern truck is a different animal to what many of us were used to. Its not electrics its electronics, in other words everything is operated by ECU’s (maybe up to half a dozen or more spread around the chassis) which also means a computer is needed to look for and trace, hopefully the faults that come up, I say hope fully because as your Merc Technicians will have found it may only tell them the engine has an injector fault, not which one so there is little that can be done but replace them all. Due to common rail systems now its not possible to carry out the sort of manual diagnostics we could do previously like disconnecting separate injectors to trace the dodgy one. The fuel pressures used in these systems are extremely high and dangerous and as you say sometimes a fault comes up for no reason and cannot be traced sometimes it may even mean changing different components to solve it, not very economical. As for Dealerships nearly all have suffered in the last ten or so years from struggling to find Fitters of a good standard and many employ foreign workers, not that they are any less capable but there is sometimes the language problem. Fuel filters as you mentioned do indeed require more regular changing in these systems, on the Volvo Fire Appliances I worked on before retirement we changed them every six months and on Annual service along with the other oils and filters. These filters have a hand operated primer and have to be pumped up 250 times to fill the housing before the filter itself is placed in and secured, many of the lads had problems re-starting these vehicles until we sussed the right way, a real pain in the ■■■■. Just a brief explanation of how things are different hope it helped. Franky.
The latest update on this troublesome Mercedes Actros. Since it went back into service after the injector problem…if it ever was a problem? The truck failed again going into limp mode and had to be recovered to the Mercedes dealership. They diagnosed a NOx sensor fault and replaced it, which was another 3 working days lost and a 4 figure invoice. I told our main depot that I wanted the truck replacing, so yesterday it was doing its last job for me with the driver scheduled to change into another unit at our main depot. And guess what, it went into limp mode again, running on about 3 cylinders and had to be towed in. The Mercedes dealerships obviously haven’t a clue what’s wrong with it. It’s now six weeks since it first broke down and we’re no nearer to a solution.
gingerfold:
The latest update on this troublesome Mercedes Actros. Since it went back into service after the injector problem…if it ever was a problem? The truck failed again going into limp mode and had to be recovered to the Mercedes dealership. They diagnosed a NOx sensor fault and replaced it, which was another 3 working days lost and a 4 figure invoice. I told our main depot that I wanted the truck replacing, so yesterday it was doing its last job for me with the driver scheduled to change into another unit at our main depot. And guess what, it went into limp mode again, running on about 3 cylinders and had to be towed in. The Mercedes dealerships obviously haven’t a clue what’s wrong with it. It’s now six weeks since it first broke down and we’re no nearer to a solution.
A few years ago an owner driver on Tyneside had his Merc lettered up, " Actros prone to catastrophic engine failure". He drove it with this legend on it for some time, until Merc finally did something about it. Regards Kev.
Detroit Diesel , who make this engine, used to have a good reputation but this thing is a piece of junk. Have a look at Francisco Amaya’s YouTube channel for a whole series of videos depicting the thing’s failings.
Edit: purely for interest, one issue relevant to engine derate youtube.com/watch?v=VQZ56r11AZw
cav551:
Detroit Diesel , who make this engine, used to have a good reputation but this thing is a piece of junk. Have a look at Francisco Amaya’s YouTube channel for a whole series of videos depicting the thing’s failings.
Didn’t go through all of them but it looks like electronic Emissions system faults seem to be a major factor ?.While some say that ■■■■■■■ also seem to have fallen into a similar downward spiral while CAT decided to give up altogether.Also I wouldn’t start with anything that’s OHC/CIH anyway which seems to just leave the MX and a decent starting point.
Having said that it’s obvious that ‘Detroit Diesel’ now just means Merc in all but name.
dealers are quite keen to spend your money as you have no option once you have given it to them.
if the laptop says 6 injectors whereas reality and common sense says it cant be all six,then the fitter,(itl unlikely be a mechanic) will just do what the laptop says and make it easyier than removing and testing single ones.
they dont want to get their hands dirty and only want to service brand new trucks,so its whatevers easiest that the computer says with no personal thought proccess.
i had a 540 actros full auto for 3 years without major mishap but for any problems it went back to the n.i dealer for,then it was a waste of time as they were useless and indifferent to fix anything.
the clutch exploded once abroad and it was a 2 day fix which was bad enough,but at least it got fixed correctly.
quite often its the service desk bod that decides what the fault code relates to and instructs what part to replace which is common practice and pathetic in relation to costing you a fortune.
if you get a problem truck,then all you can do nowadays is sell it asap and buy another as the more modern the truck,the more unreliable they become and impossible to repair.
Out of intrest Graham did Mercedes offer you a unit to use whilst yours was off the road ?
You would think a company as big as Turners would have some power but it just goes to show that manufacturers dont
care anymore when you look how you have been treated.
Main dealers are awful these days but unfortunately because the modern trucks are so complicated most of the smaller
truck garages that alot of us used have now disappeared. 
DEANB:
Out of intrest Graham did Mercedes offer you a unit to use whilst yours was off the road ?
You would think a company as big as Turners would have some power but it just goes to show that manufacturers dont
care anymore when you look how you have been treated.Main dealers are awful these days but unfortunately because the modern trucks are so complicated most of the smaller
truck garages that alot of us used have now disappeared.
I would imagine supermarkets would be one of the very few who have any clout , i remember speaking to a rental boss about ASDA who said they were an appauling company to work with.There attitude was we buy so many lorries from you we won’t pay for damage on your rental side