M70C+E:
Think you can get student loans these days for level three qualification. Presumably if you enrolled onto operator cpc home study you might qualify. But LGV not deemed to be level 3 (A level standard). If you combined all the elements of LGV training it must equate to a similar amount of hours of learning.Edit:
Advanced Learner Loans
Proposal is on the same basis not the same criteria
I am waiting for the single test straight to class 1 but so far nobody knows when that will happen as for example I have a class C provisional, my hope is they just upgrade that to class C+E provisional. I am going to do 2 days on rigid (no test) then 4 days Artic then class 1 test.
David DeHavilland:
I am waiting for the single test straight to class 1 but so far nobody knows when that will happen as for example I have a class C provisional, my hope is they just upgrade that to class C+E provisional. I am going to do 2 days on rigid (no test) then 4 days Artic then class 1 test.
Do you know how much that will save you compared with both tests?
Personally, I see no point in messing around with a CAT C when the intention is to drive CE. Up till 1997, virtually everybody started and finished on an artic. And there were no issues. (Older readers will know that I’ve mentioned that some of these candidates didn’t even drive a car - and still they learned perfectly well and passed their test. And I wont mention the lack of power steering, crash gearboxes and vacuum brakes!)
Pete S 
How would the reversing and coupling/uncoupling work in practice? Let’s say first attempt (more so for C than C+E I suspect) you nail it. Will the assessor immediately sign that off as a pass or would they want to see consistency over 3 or 4 attempts.
This is my understanding - but nothing is yet set in stone so dont rely on it.
The reversing test will be notified to DVSA. They can visit and check on any test - so it must run to time. There will be ONE attempt and one only. If it’s not up to scratch, then another test must be booked and notified to DVSA. Clearly fees will be involved. In that sense, no difference to current system though it MAY not be necessary to wait for a period for a retest.
This stops the immediate sign off on a fluke.
Some, including me, are pushing for the use of a bodycam during the test. This protects the instructor/examiner and also the candidate. Also would be available for audit by DVSA. Obviously the candidate will have to sign to agree to his test being recorded.
Hope this helps, Pete S
Pete S:
Personally, I see no point in messing around with a CAT C when the intention is to drive CE. Up till 1997, virtually everybody started and finished on an artic. And there were no issues. (Older readers will know that I’ve mentioned that some of these candidates didn’t even drive a car - and still they learned perfectly well and passed their test. And I wont mention the lack of power steering, crash gearboxes and vacuum brakes!)Pete S
You forgot to mention the straight 6 gearbox and the short flatbed trailer 
Pete S:
Personally, I see no point in messing around with a CAT C when the intention is to drive CE.
Surely this depends on how long it’s gonna take to bring this in. I for one have my lessons and test booked with PSST in 3 weeks and will be taking them if nothing is announced. I would think company’s may look more more favourably on people who at least have some HGV experience rather than sticking “one test for both” candidates straight into Class 1 with no other experience.
You forgot to mention the straight 6 gearbox and the short flatbed trailer
4 speed crash with 2 speed axle + 28’ single axle trailer. Deep joy to reverse!
Pete S
Pete S:
Personally, I see no point in messing around with a CAT C when the intention is to drive CE. Up till 1997, virtually everybody started and finished on an artic. And there were no issues. (Older readers will know that I’ve mentioned that some of these candidates didn’t even drive a car - and still they learned perfectly well and passed their test. And I wont mention the lack of power steering, crash gearboxes and vacuum brakes!)Pete S [emoji38] [emoji38]
It was you that said 3 months minimum before the changes are brought in .
My post refers to the time when the changes are implemented. In the meantime, folks should carry on as normal. Sorry for any confusion.
Pete S
So my understanding is that the rule changes are simply to get more tests through, not to save anybody money except for the cat C test fee. You will still learn to drive a Rigid and or Artic on which you will take a CAT C+E test, you still have to be assessed on reversing but by an instructor/examiner and on trailer hookups, walk arounds etc
You can then go out and take a Cat C job or if you can get one, a Cat C+E. You will most likely have to do a Drive with a company assessor and be chaperoned by a Driver for a few weeks. Everybody knows you really learn to drive after you’ve passed your test and gained experience and there is no substitute for that, right?
The only step being missed out as far as I can see is the Cat C test.
David DeHavilland:
So my understanding is that the rule changes are simply to get more tests through, not to save anybody money except for the cat C test fee. You will still learn to drive a Rigid and or Artic on which you will take a CAT C+E test, you still have to be assessed on reversing but by an instructor/examiner and on trailer hookups, walk arounds etcYou can then go out and take a Cat C job or if you can get one, a Cat C+E. You will most likely have to do a Drive with a company assessor and be chaperoned by a Driver for a few weeks. Everybody knows you really learn to drive after you’ve passed your test and gained experience and there is no substitute for that, right?
The only step being missed out as far as I can see is the Cat C test.
That’s a lot of changes - 2.5 times more tests available from DVSA (5 tests per day instead of 4, & only 1 test instead of 2) for C+E
It’s also a huge £ saving for the driver. The accepted norm of £3-4K for C & C+E compared with £2,500 as offered trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … 0#p2780300
As for c rigid training, I guess thats a supply / demand need.
At face value to get passed a C+E test, training is required on C+E and as a customer why would i want to pay for that training if all I want is C+E.
I can see some benefit of driving a C rigid, but i’m currently licensed at C1 which isnt that far off in driving terms. I would even go as far as its more relevant as its a rigid, unlike C+E two part vehicle.
Dont get me wrong I know between [zb] and all about the subject of driver training other than what lifes thrown at me, just find it strange times to go for a license.
Some years ago (yesterday in my head) you went from car to C+E and a lot of those drivers are still on the road so it cant be all bad?
Is there any rumberlings about what happends to those with a cat c licence already. Will they get a reduced rate c+e or god forbid will it be some kind of lip service training with the reversing exersise included.
cooper1203:
Is there any rumberlings about what happends to those with a cat c licence already. Will they get a reduced rate c+e …
CE Course will be shorter than those who do not have C
Pete S:
Personally, I see no point in messing around with a CAT C when the intention is to drive CE. Up till 1997, virtually everybody started and finished on an artic. And there were no issues. (Older readers will know that I’ve mentioned that some of these candidates didn’t even drive a car - and still they learned perfectly well and passed their test. And I wont mention the lack of power steering, crash gearboxes and vacuum brakes!)Pete S
When I started I worked for a parcel company who ran their own training school, they put 90% of their drivers through Class 3 and very few through Class 1 because nobody left, dead mens shoes.
Drawbar familiarisation was a 20 minute drive round the local village by a warehouse supervisor. I paid for my own Class 1 because I would have had to wait 25 years to get it through the company. We had several lads from the warehouse who went straight from moped to Class 3 C&D drivers.
There will always be a demand for Class 3 (CAT C) drivers as employers running CAT C vehicles are not likely to overtrain their staff just to see them move away for a better job.
But, based on history, the huge majority of private individuals will want CE. Some wont make it and will have to settle for C.
Pete
This is all about making money so training schools don’t lose out. Surely it’s up to you what lessons you want to take and how many hours you want.
Craig2222:
This is all about making money so training schools don’t lose out. Surely it’s up to you what lessons you want to take and how many hours you want.
The Govt want more to get to CE quicker than it is at present but I can see that 3 x C courses could be 2 x CE courses
I am booked in for my C+E with PSTT in January, after passing Class C in August.
By then, do you think my test/training will be any different to what it would have been without the rule changes?
I guess the test might not include the reverse and uncoupling/coupling exercises, but I assume I’ll still need to practice both and prove I can do it. One less thing to worry about for test day I guess.