Caladoniandream - I’m not against further rail infrastructure either, but I think the time it takes to put stuff on trains is the overwhelming flaw. We aren’t a big country like Germany, there aren’t vast distances to cover to get from one end of the country to another. In the time it takes to drive to the nearest freight terminal, queue up to have your box lifted, the box awaits the next departing train, arrives at the other freight terminal & then awaits collection from another haulier for onward delivery, the load could already have been delivered direct by truck and distributed.
The main reason container hauliers continue to run long distance into ports is to service the jobs where there is not time to use the train. If you run down to Felixstowe to drop off a container that’s running late for the boat, you may as well pick one up whilst your down there.
Re: empty trucks on the road. I agree that’s an issue, but i don’t really see a solution to be honest! Different competing hauliers just go about their own business.
caledoniandream:
Have a look on the M6 for a day and count how many trucks drive there empty or partially loaded?
What a waste of time and money.
?
I’m not picking holes in your general observations, but how do you know a truck on the M6 or any where else is running empty, 90% have an enclosed load bed. If you are assuming that because the tractor has the mid lift raised its empty, then you are jumping to a conclusion that may well be incorrect
Granted we all know that there is a lot of empty running
rob22888:
Caladoniandream - I’m not against further rail infrastructure either, but I think the time it takes to put stuff on trains is the overwhelming flaw. We aren’t a big country like Germany, there aren’t vast distances to cover to get from one end of the country to another. In the time it takes to drive to the nearest freight terminal, queue up to have your box lifted, the box awaits the next departing train, arrives at the other freight terminal & then awaits collection from another haulier for onward delivery, the load could already have been delivered direct by truck and distributed.
The main reason container hauliers continue to run long distance into ports is to service the jobs where there is not time to use the train. If you run down to Felixstowe to drop off a container that’s running late for the boat, you may as well pick one up whilst your down there.
Re: empty trucks on the road. I agree that’s an issue, but i don’t really see a solution to be honest! Different competing hauliers just go about their own business.
I think that is a simple way of looking at it, and it’s right for one or 2 containers.
A small train takes at least 50 40 ft containers (+some 20 ft) and yes a train takes longer, let say from Coventry to Mossend (Glasgow) 24 hours (including loading and in-loading).
Distance is approx 330 mile = 8 hours for a driver (only 1 container)
It would take 50 trucks x 8 hours = 400 hours to get the same amount there, it’s a no brainer.
Not even talking about fuel, and cost of vehicles etc. etc.
And Britain not being a big Country is a bit naive, if even Countries like Holland and Belgium putting freight on rails and ships for internal transport, than I think it would be well possible in Britain.
Britain is longer than Italy, and wider than that Holland is long.
It’s the rail tunnel that is already there
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Yep, Woodhead was made two bore not long before they shut it.
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short time ? new tunnel opened 1953 closed 1980s good thirty years there now rented to cegb along with the two nieghbouring single bore tunnels to carry 55.000 volt cables through the pennines
I’m sure one aspect this “just in time” which is how a lot of businesses run these days. Stock sitting in a warehouse is wasted money, along with the cost of housing it. I’m sure rail freight needs a fair bit of lead time to get organised and allocated a slot on a train. I wouldn’t be surprised that by the time leaves the vendor, gets stored at the train terminal, loaded onto a train, moved by train, unloaded and stored, picked up and delivered to vendor, you’d be lucky to get it there in less then a week. So I can understand why it’s easier just to simplify the process and reduce the steps by sticking it on a truck that can get there in 24-36 hours, possibly less if double manned…
Evil8Beezle:
I’m sure one aspect this “just in time” which is how a lot of businesses run these days. Stock sitting in a warehouse is wasted money, along with the cost of housing it. I’m sure rail freight needs a fair bit of lead time to get organised and allocated a slot on a train. I wouldn’t be surprised that by the time leaves the vendor, gets stored at the train terminal, loaded onto a train, moved by train, unloaded and stored, picked up and delivered to vendor, you’d be lucky to get it there in less then a week. So I can understand why it’s easier just to simplify the process and reduce the steps by sticking it on a truck that can get there in 24-36 hours, possibly less if double manned…
Nail hit firmly on head. The simple truth of the matter is that this island simply is not big enough to require the majority of freight to be moved economically by rail. Nor is the British railway loading gauge generous enough to permit trailers to ride on railway trucks.
mrginge:
If we get more freight on the tracks that means more rail jobs and some people on here keep banging on about how being a train driver is the best job in the world.
all very well saying that but it is dead mans shoes for most of us [in our 50s]too old
it would be really good and satisfying to put everything on the rails,let every driver have a paid holiday,sit back and wait to see what happens when they cannot get to the delivery points,i can imagine these road to rail muppets arguing about how they get the goods to the delivery point,once the train pulls in their first words would probably be OK WHAT NOW,to which others would reply WELL I THOUGHT YOU HAD A PLAN then the arguments would start,meanwhile we would be in the background laughing our heads off,be good to see it happen,shut these muppets up once and for all
One of the finest arguments for Rail Transport is to look at H G Bertschi from Durrenasch. I know there are others as Caledoniandream is well aware. Companies like Shell in Pernis and Moerdijk, Wilton and Teesport could not cope without an intermodal system.
rob22888:
Caladoniandream - I’m not against further rail infrastructure either, but I think the time it takes to put stuff on trains is the overwhelming flaw. We aren’t a big country like Germany, there aren’t vast distances to cover to get from one end of the country to another. In the time it takes to drive to the nearest freight terminal, queue up to have your box lifted, the box awaits the next departing train, arrives at the other freight terminal & then awaits collection from another haulier for onward delivery, the load could already have been delivered direct by truck and distributed.
The main reason container hauliers continue to run long distance into ports is to service the jobs where there is not time to use the train. If you run down to Felixstowe to drop off a container that’s running late for the boat, you may as well pick one up whilst your down there.
Re: empty trucks on the road. I agree that’s an issue, but i don’t really see a solution to be honest! Different competing hauliers just go about their own business.
I think that is a simple way of looking at it, and it’s right for one or 2 containers.
A small train takes at least 50 40 ft containers (+some 20 ft) and yes a train takes longer, let say from Coventry to Mossend (Glasgow) 24 hours (including loading and in-loading).
Distance is approx 330 mile = 8 hours for a driver (only 1 container)
It would take 50 trucks x 8 hours = 400 hours to get the same amount there, it’s a no brainer.
You say it’s a no brainer whilst also admitting that the train takes longer, so for the companies wanting their gear it isn’t necessarily a ‘no brainer’ at all. Import/Export containers are a different ball game to domestic loads where businesses are used to being able to receive goods within a relatively short space of time of it being dispatched & often rely on this being the case. A load can be dispatched from London & be tipped at at the end destination in Glasgow later that day, trains will never be able to compete with that.
Of course there are domestic loads being moved long distance everyday that have no urgency attached to them & they would be better moved on rail, but i’m far from convinced taking this particular proportion of loads off the trunk routes will make much of a difference to daytime traffic. Fact of the matter is, it’s the sheer weight of cars on the road that are the root cause of congestion, trucks are just the scapegoat. The roads work just fine on weekdays when the kids are at school & people are at work, it’s when the masses in their cars pile onto the road things go ■■■■ up.
Putting freight on rail to tick environmental boxes really wouldn’t be top of my list for investment in transport infrastructure.
Yep, Woodhead was made two bore not long before they shut it.
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short time ? new tunnel opened 1953 closed 1980s good thirty years there now rented to cegb along with the two nieghbouring single bore tunnels to carry 55.000 volt cables through the pennines
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At my age it didn’t seem very long ago.
The railway operates at quite near capacity as it is. They sold off the marshalling yards years ago .They dont do mixed freight but whole train loads of the same stuff be it round timber , minerals or containers.
