kr79:
The fuel is the killer I’m sure I read a post of Bewicks saying fuel was around 30% of his running costs. When I was doing ferry trailers it was almost 50% and I quickly realised I was on to a loser.
Your right there “kr79” fuel costs are killing the industry but years ago we were able,in the main,to apply surcharges and in the early 70’s our cost % regarding fuel was always around 20% and even adding all the drivers employment costs on the % was always just below 50%.So what chance have operators got nowadays that fuel alone is over 50% !!! They must be kidding themselves now,surely !! The sums just don’t add up and haven’t done for a good number of years now!Cheers Bewick.
I think that at this particular point in the whole discussion… it is plain to see that Gardner’s, in there time… were the best that money could buy.
CF has his own view on the subject…which in fairness he is entitled to… but it looks obvious that he is wrong.
Solly:
I think that at this particular point in the whole discussion… it is plain to see that Gardner’s, in there time… were the best that money could buy.
CF has his own view on the subject…which in fairness he is entitled to… but it looks obvious that he is wrong.
Since at least 1970 . History seems to say otherwise.
Solly:
I think that at this particular point in the whole discussion… it is plain to see that Gardner’s, in there time… were the best that money could buy.
CF has his own view on the subject…which in fairness he is entitled to… but it looks obvious that he is wrong.
Since at least 1970 . History seems to say otherwise.
Boo Hiss! Oh no it isn’t !! Yes it ■■■■■■■ well is !! It’s “CF”,and just when Larry is trying to go to his “pit” ! could be in for a lang neet !! Cheers Dennis.
Any fool can pick a point in progress and use it to ridicule the efforts of 20 years previous.
Have you built up the courage to have a go at that University bloke yet? Of course you haven’t, because you know that he will confirm the good sense of everyone on here.
Solly:
I think that at this particular point in the whole discussion… it is plain to see that Gardner’s, in there time… were the best that money could buy.
CF has his own view on the subject…which in fairness he is entitled to… but it looks obvious that he is wrong.
Since at least 1970 . History seems to say otherwise.
Boo Hiss! Oh no it isn’t !! Yes it [zb] well is !! It’s “CF”,and just when Larry is trying to go to his “pit” ! could be in for a lang neet !! Cheers Dennis.
I think you will find that in 1970 Gardners were very popular it was more like the `80s when they lost their appeal
cav551:
Let’s for the sake of argument assume that CF’s wish for 60 tons comes in tomorrow along with the trailers or multiple trailers to accommodate the load. Who is prepared to not only drive the things, but to load and unload them with a pump up truck for the same money - or probably more realistically less- than they are getting today? Remember it is the workers’ duty to subsidise the multi-million pound companies that will ultimately reap the benefit from such an increase.
Perhaps more on theme, how many bhp would you expect under the bonnet. I’ll settle for a 6LW and the time to see the countryside meander by.
Whether you like it or not it will happen cav551.The Scandinavians have been running at 60 tons for years,they have no problem getting drivers to operate multiple trailers.The Dutch and the Germans are in the process of doing the same,so it’s pretty safe to assume that Britain and the rest of the EU will probably follow in time.At the moment in Holland it’s mainly confined to containers i.e. 1 40ft + 1 20ft,but in Scandinavia they also operate with tilts.I’m sure Bma finland can give more information than me.It would be interesting to hear his views.As for the industry bearing the brunt of the costs to upgrade to 60 tons regrettably that’s always been the case when any change regarding weights and length have been made.I agree with you that it’s not fair, the transport industry is and always has been,(at least for the last 30 years) squeezed almost dry absorbing these extra costs,hence the drive to produce more and more efficient engines and cut down to a minimum driver error(auto gearboxes,cruise controls etc.) in an effort to maximise any small profit that there may be.
This is the future,this is what will happen in the UK before too long.There has not been a Gardner engine ever made that could cope with these train weights.Like the dinosaur,if you can’t or won’t adapt and change you become extinct.R.I.P Gardner.
Retired Old ■■■■:
Do I spy a chrome “Gardner 150” badge somewhere on that Scania?
The badge you see R.O.F is on a Scania 164 530bhp work horse.Larry’s Gardner 150 badge is in the best place for it, screwed on the wall,along with the rest of Gardner memorabilia.There’s no other place to put it in todays modern transport world.
True…Tony…but if Mr Gardner as chairman… hadn’t been so stubborn and domineering with the rest of the Gardner board, and their engineers, just think where Gardner engines could have ranked in today’s industry. IMHO they could have headed the ranking as one of the best…maybe the best. Alas we will never know.
Solly:
True…Tony…but if Mr Gardner as chairman… hadn’t been so stubborn and domineering with the rest of the Gardner board, and their engineers, just think where Gardner engines could have ranked in today’s industry. IMHO they could have headed the ranking as one of the best…maybe the best. Alas we will never know.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing Solly,and if wishes were horses then beggars would ride.I am not trying to take away anything from king Gardner,in their heyday they were the best that were availiable.However,“The king is dead,-- long live the king”, and the king at the moment comes from across the sea.Just like the Romans,the continental manufacturers have come,seen and conquered.
Solly:
True…Tony…but if Mr Gardner as chairman… hadn’t been so stubborn and domineering with the rest of the Gardner board, and their engineers, just think where Gardner engines could have ranked in today’s industry. IMHO they could have headed the ranking as one of the best…maybe the best. Alas we will never know.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing Solly,and if wishes were horses then beggars would ride.I am not trying to take away anything from king Gardner,in their heyday they were the best that were availiable.However,“The king is dead,-- long live the king”, and the king at the moment comes from across the sea.Just like the Romans,the continental manufacturers have come,seen and conquered.
Again…Tony… very true.
They took advantage of the situation and won hands down mate!
Just a thought tho’. Do you think Mr Gardner ever had any hindsight after it all went pear-shaped?
I don’t… as I think he was too wrapped-up in his own ill conceived opinions which were unquestionably wrong. The rest as they say is history.
Personally Solly,I think he knew the end was in sight and was only too happy to take the money and run after the sale to Hawker Siddley.Some people get so set in their ways they are closed to new ideas and are incapable of change.In my opinion Mr.Gardner was one of those.
Is that a uniquely British thing or do other nations suffer from it as we seem to have lost out a lot more than other nations in the vehicle manufacturing business.
kr79:
Is that a uniquely British thing or do other nations suffer from it as we seem to have lost out a lot more than other nations in the vehicle manufacturing business.
I think in the years following the WW2 Britain failed to take advantage of the oportunities that lay open.We were invited to become a founder member of the EEC which the then government declined,it was only in the turbulent 70s when Britain fraught with strikes and on a 3 day week that Ted Heath took us into it.The British attitude was one of complacency and the mistaken belief that we know what is best for us and the rest of the world,and Gardner Ltd were no exception.As we all know complancy breeds contempt and thats how Gardner treated their customers,as did the coach building designers at Atkinson,ERF,Foden etc.It’s no suprise therefore that when new thinking and designs in engines and cabin comfort came along from the continent that customers changed horses and left the British vehicle manufacturers foundering in their own misplaced ideas.So,yes I do think it’s uniquely British,because it was not only in that field, it was olso in motor cars and motor cycles and other manufacturing industries.
At the risk of sounding like a certain august contributor to this forum,some of the problems were due not just to the arrogant & complacent British manafacturers but the reluctance of dyed in the wool penny pinching hauliers to spend money on what at the time they perceived to be not necessary, comfortable easy to drive powerful vehicles, as a youngster visiting the commercial motor show (Earls Court) in the late sixties I can remember some of the "old school " and the attiitude “radio & heater!by 'eck what next the b****rs will expect a decent wage to drive it!”.Later when working for a main dealer there was the cheapest quote clinchs the deal thing so the customer often got a compromise & not the most suitable vechicle for the job eg an own account operator sold a four cylinder,four speed Leyland Terrier for the Scotland run leave Surrey on Sunday multi drop & back load return home Friday they complained of poor fuel consumtion & lack of power but were happy with the purchase price
splitshift:
At the risk of sounding like a certain august contributor to this forum,some of the problems were due not just to the arrogant & complacent British manafacturers but the reluctance of dyed in the wool penny pinching hauliers to spend money on what at the time they perceived to be not necessary, comfortable easy to drive powerful vehicles, as a youngster visiting the commercial motor show (Earls Court) in the late sixties I can remember some of the "old school " and the attiitude “radio & heater!by 'eck what next the b****rs will expect a decent wage to drive it!”.Later when working for a main dealer there was the cheapest quote clinchs the deal thing so the customer often got a compromise & not the most suitable vechicle for the job eg an own account operator sold a four cylinder,four speed Leyland Terrier for the Scotland run leave Surrey on Sunday multi drop & back load return home Friday they complained of poor fuel consumtion & lack of power but were happy with the purchase price
That just about sums it up splitshift,you’re right of course.When the trade barriers came down after we joined the EEC in 1973,the Britsh transport industry manufacturers didn’t know what hit them.That’s when the rot really set in,when they were faced with overseas competitors competeing on a level playing field and offering a far superior service they just buried their collective heads in the sand and started to slowly sink into the quicksand of oblivion.You are also right about the “old school bosses”,most of them didn’t give a ■■■■ about their drivers,their only motivation was profit.A prime example was old man Sutton of St.Helens who would instantly sack a driver for having the engine ticking over in yard.(Mind you, in one way I can see his point,who on earth would want to inhale the smokescreen that a dozen Gardner 180s would make, and also clean up the gallons of oil dripped on the yard floor).
. 
History seems to say otherwise.
