I work for a forklift company and the procedure as mentioned is to not remove the victim or release them from the “crush” as toxins build up in the muscles and can kill the victim unless they are treated correctly, this can take up to 15 minutes.
We have this on posters about the site.
Also lifting a forklift truck up with another that is not the correct weight can cause other issues unless you know what you are doing.
cracker-bar,
I don’t like to belittle anyone based on a piece of journalism, but a serious question for you if you don’t mind -
I read a story a few years back of somebody who drowned in shallow water (they were lying face down), but the fire service (although on scene) refused to enter the water because it was deeper than ‘one metre’ (I believe, this is all from memory). Now don’t get me wrong, I was more disgusted that no members of the public had the wherewithall to go and help the poor chap themselves (instead of relying on the emergency services and taking no initiative themselves), and my question is intended seriously with no sarcasm or malice… In a situation like this, if you were happy you could have helped save this man’s life and disregarded the rulebook, would your job indeed hang in the balance over it?
One reason I could never work for the emergency services is that my good nature would always overrule the laws that ‘get in the way’ and I wouldn’t last long as I couldn’t deal with the red tape. I hold no disrespect to those who do, but I am genuinely curious as to whether H+S has gone that far that there are situations where, although applying common sense could save somebody’s life, the rules that must be adhered to could prevent that?
For anyone belittling the Fire Service with regard to Health and Safety just Google search the four Warwickshire firemen who died at Bomfords’ near Stratford a few years ago. Or visit their memorial near the Stratford canal basin.
Not knowing the details of the incident you refer to J, I can only say that, to the best of my knowledge, all firefighters in the UK should be, as a minimum, trained to Swift Water First Responder level. This would allow them to enter standing water of a metre, subject to a dynamic risk assessment, to save a life. However if it was moving water then a properly trained Swiftwater Rescue Technician would be required, with the correct equipment. There have been firefighters lose their lives in the past due to undertaking water rescues for which they were ill trained, and equipped for. This is the reason we now operate the risk hierarchy of self team victim, as no one benefits from firefighters simply rushing into a rescue and becoming a victim themselves. Whenever we are presented with a saveable life, then we will risk ours to save it, we will not risk our lives, however, to effect a corpse retrieval.
I remember an incident in winter in the fens where firemen used breathing apparatus to go underwater and rescue someone from a car that was upside down in a deep dyke.
Incredibly, not only did they get the person out, they actually brought him back to life…the water had been so cold that he’d ‘drowned’ but he hadn’t actually died…the sudden low temperature had preserved his brain and vital functions. They drained the water out of his lungs, did CPR,then when he started breathing on his own gave him a wiff of oxygen.
cracker-bar,
Thanks for the swift response, it sounds very logical and of course in the scenario I recalled, based on what you’ve said it makes sense not to venture out to ‘rescue’ somebody who had been laying facedown in water for some time.
Muckaway, I don’t think your comment was directed at me, but I’ll reiterate it now - I think all the emergency services do a fantastic and difficult job and I respect their professionalism. My question was purely out of curiosity, not out of malice.
DaiDap:
cracker-bar:
smokinbarrels:
I’m afraid the days of the fire service using firemanship skills to carry out rescues has long gone. It’s all H&S and standard operating procedures these days.I have to take issue with you on that SB. Yes we do sometimes get hamstrung by h&s ■■■■■■■■ but, unless a life is literally hanging in the balance, a measured response with considered actions is the best way to deal with most situations.
As I’m sure that poor Scottish lady who fell down that hole would testify. If only she were alive to do so.
Yer remember that incident very well, that accident happened just 5 miles from where I live , I’m afraid H&S has taken common sense out of any thought , in days gone by firemen would just have rescued the victim , and then answered Q later , not now as they fear for legal action if their not qualified for certain rescue’s , they had to wait for mountain rescue people , but was to late , I know it was a mine shaft but it’s the same equipment as mountain rescue , very unfortunate event , hopefully never repeated .
I seem to remember at the time a report into it suggested the fire officer in command was on a bit of a power trip. Someone should have pushed him in and I bet he would have gone off the idea of waiting for mountain rescue.
I think a cutback in the Fire Service is inevitable so much of what they used to do has disappeared or in decline. Primary task now seems to be dealing with RTAs and there must be more efficient and cost-effective ways of dealing with that.
If anyone remembers the tanker tipping over and catching fire in Sunderland many years ago, the one that burned out two car showrooms and the heat made the brick wall round the Newcastle Road baths explode, the fire brigade at the time tried there hardest to stop the fire getting any worse by connecting hoses to the compartments of the overturned tanker and pumping the fuel out!
I doubt very much whether they would be allowed to that now mind you, probably would be on evacuation duty’s while it burned the whole town down…
I was run over by a fork lift truck.
I was in the yard being loaded. The FLT driver carried a pallet on to my truck, reversed out and stopped. I walked behind him assuming that he was going to drive forward to get another pallet, but instead, he reversed. I was knocked to the ground and the steering wheels went over my leg. Naturally I screamed and he stopped - I then yelled at him to move as the wheel was still on top of my leg.
He moved back off me and I lay back on the ground, well aware that my leg was broken. Someone gave me their jacket to rest my head on and I used my phone to call my wife to tell her that I had been ‘slightly’ injured and she might want to come to the hospital. The ambulance arrived and it’s a bit blurred after that as they gave me morphine, but I had a compound fracture of the Tib and fib and ended up with a titanium rod down the middle of my tibia.
I claimed some compensation on the grounds that the FLT driver did not look behind and I was wearing my high viz which should have made me invulnerable.
Muckaway:
For anyone belittling the Fire Service with regard to Health and Safety just Google search the four Warwickshire firemen who died at Bomfords’ near Stratford a few years ago. Or visit their memorial near the Stratford canal basin.
or google the alison hulme case where she was left to bloody die because the fireman darent breach health and safety rules to save this poor woman.stuff the bloody job-save the casualty at all costs…shame on all of them that left her to die…
Drift:
I work for a forklift company and the procedure as mentioned is to not remove the victim or release them from the “crush” as toxins build up in the muscles and can kill the victim unless they are treated correctly, this can take up to 15 minutes.
We have this on posters about the site.
Also lifting a forklift truck up with another that is not the correct weight can cause other issues unless you know what you are doing.
if someone has been crushed for less than 15 minutes then release them if you can, if someone has been crushed for more than 15 minutes, or you don’t know how long, then you need to leave them crushed
Own Account Driver:
I seem to remember at the time a report into it suggested the fire officer in command was on a bit of a power trip. Someone should have pushed him in and I bet he would have gone off the idea of waiting for mountain rescue.I think a cutback in the Fire Service is inevitable so much of what they used to do has disappeared or in decline. Primary task now seems to be dealing with RTAs and there must be more efficient and cost-effective ways of dealing with that.
I don’t think the fire service attend more crashes than they used to. The fire service is a victim of their own success with number of all calls down about 30%.
If the government wants to cut the fire service and make savings they want to make more use of part-time firefighters. A vast amount of the uk is covered by part-time fire stations were the people working there have other jobs and are called to the station when needed. These stations are cheap to run with minimum people working there and with only a couple of hours training a week.
Just imagine how happy we’d be if the police cut crime by 30%?
Regards SB.
The problem with retained (part time) crewed stations, is that you cannot guarantee a 24 hour response, and in some areas, due to funding/training time constraints, they are not carrying the full range of equipment on their trucks. Whilst it is the most cost effective way to provide a fire service, and has some incredibly committed people, it is not the answer to public sector cuts. Would you want the motorway policed by specials, or St John ambulance to attend serous RTC’s? All these things have their place, and I am not knocking the dedication and professionalism of those that do it, but there is no substitute for well trained, and suitably experienced emergency responders.