steery1:
There is no “intent to deceive”.(Thats a massive leap to judgement). If I dont get the required 9 on board then I must take the 11 and finish it after disembarkation.
Neither is there an “alteration in an entry in a book, register or document.” Its all on the card unaltered.
I would doubt a written explanation for the use of “ferry/train” before a 9hr daily rest would even be needed as has been pointed out the data shows an uninterrupted 9hrs rest completed within the 24 hour period, but it wouldnt do any harm I suppose.
You’ve lost me…(not hard i know) Whats “the required 9 on board” ? I wanna know how you are going to interupt a reduced rest to board a ferry when the regulations say you can only interupt a Regular rest period? How are you gonna get round that ?
I know you’re probably not gonna agree ( ) but when I say “required 9” I mean 9hrs of uninterrupted rest that will qualify as reduced daily rest, regardless of whether I selected “ferry/train” before boarding or not.
steery1:
There is no “intent to deceive”.(Thats a massive leap to judgement). If I dont get the required 9 on board then I must take the 11 and finish it after disembarkation.
Neither is there an “alteration in an entry in a book, register or document.” Its all on the card unaltered.
I would doubt a written explanation for the use of “ferry/train” before a 9hr daily rest would even be needed as has been pointed out the data shows an uninterrupted 9hrs rest completed within the 24 hour period, but it wouldnt do any harm I suppose.
You’ve lost me…(not hard i know) Whats “the required 9 on board” ? I wanna know how you are going to interupt a reduced rest to board a ferry when the regulations say you can only interupt a Regular rest period? How are you gonna get round that ?
I know you’re probably not gonna agree ( ) but when I say “required 9” I mean 9hrs of uninterrupted rest that will qualify as reduced daily rest, regardless of whether I selected “ferry/train” before boarding or not.
Good luck with it, you might be able to convince them it kosher. Not convincing me though !!
Whats this on your card drive ? What Officer ? You’ve only had 10 hours rest and you’ve interupted it getting on the ferry, you’re supposed to have a full Daily Rest ? Yeah, i had 9 hours rest on the boat. Oh, ok then off you go !!
Might work i suppose. Read one of them powers of persuasion books first before you try to convince him that the 11 hours you need to take can be accomplished in 9 !
I do have another ferry related question that, if you’re interested I’d like to hear your views on…
Start shift - 5am
Drive to port 3hrs. Arrive approx 8am
Drive onto ferry and select “rest” approx 9.30am
Drive off ferry approx 6.30pm (assuming 9hrs rest achieved onboard)
Drive to yard approx 45min at 7.15pm
Lorry loaded at yard 30mins
Leave yard at approx 7.45pm
Drive back to port approx 45min
In queue at port approx 8.30pm
Drive onto ferry and select “rest” at approx 9.30pm
Drive off ferry approx 6.30am (assuming 9hrs rest achieved onboard)
What modes/buttons do you think I should select for this trip/s? My head is starting to hurt.
personally I would contemplate my options regarding all vosa related regulations ,then most likely just bung my magnet on to suit…saves 3 weeks of discussing hypothetical pish with anyone else…
Yes he interrupted his rest after 1 hour which is not an offence as long as the required rest is then taken within the 24h day.
Correct. The required rest after an interuption is how many hours ?
I suppose the answer would be as many hours as the regulations required. That could be 9 hours taken within the 24 hour day if a reduced rest is available, or 11 hours if not, or if travelling by ferry/train and a bunk etc is available then the balance of the 11 hours required excluding any interruptions.
There are no regulations to prevent a driver interrupting any rest period - just the daily rest regulations.
In the example we seem to be playing with the driver committed no offence at all. He correctly used ‘ferry’ to note why he was interrupting his rest - therefore his record is true and complete. He then changed his plan and decided not to take advantage of the ferry/train rules and simply take a reduced rest. His records then reflect this. No falsification or altering of records.
I will agree the use of ‘ferry’ may, possibly, perhaps provoke a question from an enforcement officer, but I doubt it as no offence would have been spotted - he took a reduced rest within the 24h day which is perfectly OK. He recorded all of his activities correctly. Well actually - I don’t know if he recorded the symbol of the country in which he ended and started his shift which as we know is a legal requirement but that aside the drivers verbal explanation would suffice - an offence was not committed. I doubt any analysis software would even pick up on it.
Yes he interrupted his rest after 1 hour which is not an offence as long as the required rest is then taken within the 24h day.
Correct. The required rest after an interuption is how many hours ?
I suppose the answer would be as many hours as the regulations required. That could be 9 hours taken within the 24 hour day if a reduced rest is available, or 11 hours if not, or if travelling by ferry/train and a bunk etc is available then the balance of the 11 hours required excluding any interruptions.
There are no regulations to prevent a driver interrupting any rest period - just the daily rest regulations.
In the example we seem to be playing with the driver committed no offence at all. He correctly used ‘ferry’ to note why he was interrupting his rest - therefore his record is true and complete. He then changed his plan and decided not to take advantage of the ferry/train rules and simply take a reduced rest. His records then reflect this. No falsification or altering of records.
I will agree the use of ‘ferry’ may, possibly, perhaps provoke a question from an enforcement officer, but I doubt it as no offence would have been spotted - he took a reduced rest within the 24h day which is perfectly OK. He recorded all of his activities correctly. Well actually - I don’t know if he recorded the symbol of the country in which he ended and started his shift which as we know is a legal requirement but that aside the drivers verbal explanation would suffice - an offence was not committed. I doubt any analysis software would even pick up on it.
You’re just winging it now i can tell. We’ve gone from reporting the instructor for misinformation, to now accepting software analysis may not pick it up ?
I know mate. Shep will be along shortly and he’ll tell you if you can start your rest at the dock for an hour, interupt it by driving on the ferry, and if you are good to go if you get 9 hours on board. He’ll tell you exactly if you can do it or not. He said yes before, lets see if he’s changed his mind because what he’s said just above looks like he has, i highlighted it in red…
or if travelling by ferry/train and a bunk etc is available then the balance of the 11 hours required excluding any interruptions.
I know mate. Shep will be along shortly and he’ll tell you if you can start your rest at the dock for an hour, interupt it by driving on the ferry, and if you are good to go if you get 9 hours on board. He’ll tell you exactly if you can do it or not. He said yes before, lets see if he’s changed his mind because what he’s said just above looks like he has, i highlighted it in red…
or if travelling by ferry/train and a bunk etc is available then the balance of the 11 hours required excluding any interruptions.
I’ve given up now.
Nothing you have taken the time to post actually means anything other than has already been said. I have not and will not change my mind. The scenario as already described is perfectly legal.
A rest may not be interrupted - could not agree more. In the example we are discussing his actual rest that counted and was used for that 24 hour period was not interrupted. It was 9 continuous uninterrupted hours as per the legislations do therefore valid.
The part of my post you kindly highlighted in red would be the bit that would apply had the driver wanted to take advantage of the ferry/train OPTION. As it was he didn’t do that. That is his choice. You keep banging on about not being able to interrupt a rest but this driver didn’t.
Had he taken 1 hour at the port followed by 8 hours on the ferry and considered THAT a valid 9 hour rest I would agree with you whole heartedly. THAT would have been his only rest in that 24h day and THAT rest had been interrupted.
I have indeed given up now. I will publicly apologise and admit I am wrong when you show me a legal document which states as you have stated - that because he selected ‘ferry’ he now HAS to carry on and take the full 11 hours. This is what you have suggested in previous posts.
I can show you where it says a 9 hour uninterrupted rest is OK. Can you show me where it says this is not the case because the ‘ferry’ setting was selected.
To reiterate my stand point. The 1 hour the driver had at the port was not and could not be a rest - by definition- therefore it was not interrupted.
I know mate. Shep will be along shortly and he’ll tell you if you can start your rest at the dock for an hour, interupt it by driving on the ferry, and if you are good to go if you get 9 hours on board. He’ll tell you exactly if you can do it or not. He said yes before, lets see if he’s changed his mind because what he’s said just above looks like he has, i highlighted it in red…
or if travelling by ferry/train and a bunk etc is available then the balance of the 11 hours required excluding any interruptions.
I’ve given up now.
Nothing you have taken the time to post actually means anything other than has already been said. I have not and will not change my mind. The scenario as already described is perfectly legal.
A rest may not be interrupted - could not agree more. In the example we are discussing his actual rest that counted and was used for that 24 hour period was not interrupted. It was 9 continuous uninterrupted hours as per the legislations do therefore valid.
The part of my post you kindly highlighted in red would be the bit that would apply had the driver wanted to take advantage of the ferry/train OPTION. As it was he didn’t do that. That is his choice. You keep banging on about not being able to interrupt a rest but this driver didn’t.
Had he taken 1 hour at the port followed by 8 hours on the ferry and considered THAT a valid 9 hour rest I would agree with you whole heartedly. THAT would have been his only rest in that 24h day and THAT rest had been interrupted.
I have indeed given up now. I will publicly apologise and admit I am wrong when you show me a legal document which states as you have stated - that because he selected ‘ferry’ he now HAS to carry on and take the full 11 hours. This is what you have suggested in previous posts.
I can show you where it says a 9 hour uninterrupted rest is OK. Can you show me where it says this is not the case because the ‘ferry’ setting was selected.
To reiterate my stand point. The 1 hour the driver had at the port was not and could not be a rest - by definition- therefore it was not interrupted.
Ok - I’ll bite just one more time. Can’t help myself.
In the document you refer to I would question the accuracy of the information. For a start it tells us the interruptions are counted towards the rest period … Which we know they aren’t. All you have posted is someone’s written interpretation of the rules which has as much standing as anything you or I say.
That quote above is so badly written its actually not even funny. But anyway the part you highlighted in yellow simply means that you cant interrupt a 9hr reduced daily rest using “ferry/train” And everyone agrees on that anyway.
shep532:
Ok - I’ll bite just one more time. Can’t help myself.
In the document you refer to I would question the accuracy of the information. For a start it tells us the interruptions are counted towards the rest period … Which we know they aren’t. All you have posted is someone’s written interpretation of the rules which has as much standing as anything you or I say.
I agree that we disagree
The quote states that…
“the interruptions are counted towards the rest period and ignored entirely”
Now that dont make sense.
It also states that the…
“interruptions may not excede more than one hour in total”
What exactly is “more than one hour in total” that cant be exceded? Should it not say “the interruptions may not excede one hour in total”.
steery1:
you cant interrupt a 9hr reduced daily rest using “ferry/train” And everyone agrees on that anyway.
You’re nearly there, all you gotta is remove the “9hr” bit and you’ve got it. Its took a while but we’re there !!! So it looks like this
you cant interrupt a reduced daily rest using “ferry/train”
Back to where we where earlier…1hr+9hrs = 10.
Booshhh !!!
Nah, just kiddin and pulling your leg. Its fine to do it. Just put it on rest, do your ferry movement and mark it, have your 9 hours and you’re good to go. I think when the regs says you can only interupt a regular rest period a maximun of twice that there’s a bit of flexibility in it. So you start it off and can just ignore it because you’ve got your 9 in. I think i’ve read it somewhere but just can’t remember…says, if you get 9 hours continuous after your first ferry movement you can scrap the requirement to have a Regular Daily Rest.
I’m just winding the both of you up. You’ll be fine, its even been explained by Shep and he teaches it . Take no notice of me, just look at my signature !!! Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
steery1:
I do have another ferry related question that, if you’re interested I’d like to hear your views on…
Start shift - 5am
Drive to port 3hrs. Arrive approx 8am
Drive onto ferry and select “rest” approx 9.30am
Drive off ferry approx 6.30pm (assuming 9hrs rest achieved onboard)
Drive to yard approx 45min at 7.15pm
Lorry loaded at yard 30mins
Leave yard at approx 7.45pm
Drive back to port approx 45min
In queue at port approx 8.30pm
Drive onto ferry and select “rest” at approx 9.30pm
Drive off ferry approx 6.30am (assuming 9hrs rest achieved onboard)
What modes/buttons do you think I should select for this trip/s? My head is starting to hurt.
steery1:
I do have another ferry related question that, if you’re interested I’d like to hear your views on…
Start shift - 5am
Drive to port 3hrs. Arrive approx 8am
Drive onto ferry and select “rest” approx 9.30am
Drive off ferry approx 6.30pm (assuming 9hrs rest achieved onboard)
Drive to yard approx 45min at 7.15pm
Lorry loaded at yard 30mins
Leave yard at approx 7.45pm
Drive back to port approx 45min
In queue at port approx 8.30pm
Drive onto ferry and select “rest” at approx 9.30pm
Drive off ferry approx 6.30am (assuming 9hrs rest achieved onboard)
What modes/buttons do you think I should select for this trip/s? My head is starting to hurt.
Easy that, and its right where i’m going now…just leave it on the bed sign !!!
Mike-C:
I’m just winding the both of you up. You’ll be fine, its even been explained by Shep and he teaches it . Take no notice of me, just look at my signature !!! Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
Mike-C:
I’m just winding the both of you up. You’ll be fine, its even been explained by Shep and he teaches it . Take no notice of me, just look at my signature !!! Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
Well wasn’t that fun
Funnier than you can imagine. Most people know that the only rest you can interupt to get on a ferry and /or off it is a Regular Daily rest. And i’ve an image in my head of one of your classes…
Steery; If i have an hour at the port then get on the ferry and get another nine hours on the ferry am i good to go or do i need to complete the Regular Rest Period?
Shep: Yeah , you’re good to go. You got your nine hours reduced rest in. Don’t worry about the ferry movement, you just changed your mind over it. It won’t really be picked up.
Steery: I thought as much, cheers!!
The rest of the class : I always thought you needed a Regular Daily Rest once you interupt it for a Ferry Crossing. Turns out we’re wrong, you can just do a 9 ?
Poxy Transport Company . IE LTD. (who runs their drivers ragged and has a history of being pulled by DVSA on sight):
Aye, is dat wat yer man Shep said ? Good craic, book him to teach our drivers the craic on the ferry. I’m not messin about with dat other old yoke givin us the Regular Period ■■■■■■■■…
Whats “the required 9 on board” ? I wanna know how you are going to interupt a reduced rest to board a ferry when the regulations say you can only interupt a Regular rest period? How are you gonna get round that ?
