robert1952:
A nice piece of insight, Saviem! In my new book I do hint at the issue: One of the reasons for ERF’s apparent lack of success on the the continent was that the truck markets were significantly more depressed than in Britain during the late seventies.
However, it would be interesting - as you state yourself - to have a little more flesh put on these bones.
Maybe arguably more a case of ‘saturated’ and sewn up by the relevant domestic manufacturers.Together with a more loyal customer base that realised that economic survival depended on minimising imports which was a luxury the Brits didn’t have.Thereby making demand just for Brit exports ‘depressed’.As opposed to a depressed euro market overall. 
On a sunny Sunday-afternoon with the Dutch Championship Soccer in the pocket, herewith #16 parked
in front of Van Steenbergen’s workshop, ignore the letter around…this chassis was number 4 from 1974
out of the total 6 bought.
ERF-Continental:
On a sunny Sunday-afternoon with the Dutch Championship Soccer in the pocket, herewith #16 parked
in front of Van Steenbergen’s workshop, ignore the letter around…this chassis was number 4 from 1974
out of the total 6 bought.
A nice find, A-J and an interesting document, but strange! Do you know to whom this letter was addressed and why? Or why this particular picture was included in the letter - most mysterious! In the meantime it is good to know that this picture relates to Van Steenbergen no. 16. Cheers, mon ami!
Here are the other pictures I have of fleet no. 16, both courtesy of Wobbe Reitsma of de Nederlands:
Robert 
[pic removed]
You’ll be familiar with this picture now from the publicity material spinning off from the sale of Lorries of Arabia: ERF NGC. Robert
robert1952:
But this has to be the ‘find’ of the day! 
Ashley found this curious picture, again on FB. I reckon it has got to be one of the five extra-long wheelbase NGCs sent out to Falcon Freight in Jeddah. 
One of those was the very last MW cab ever built (despatched 22nd Dec 1977) but we have no easy way of knowing if that was the one. Maybe it was and that’s why the photos was taken - who knows? The wheelbase was 5.34m so that looks about right to me. Robert 
0
In all fairness and while watching more frequently…I am about to believe we are dealing with a rigid as the overhang
at the rear is quite significant…or? And what did Falcon Freight operate as trailers? Just a thought though
Thank you Geoffrey! I was earlier thinking it was awaiting a kind of a tag-axle as a matter of fact.
No doubt it then should have a double drive (Hendrickson) installed but why was that not done immediately?
There are examples of 6x4 NGCs just as the many (CAMEL) B-series later.
Apparently ERF did leave this part of the M/E-market to Kenworth and Mack in the mid-seventies.
Hiya ERF had done the Jordanian order for 100 trucks in the late 60,s all off them double drive and trouble free
apart from many other 6X4 units built over the years… ERF built a 6x4 44ton 6LV cabbed unit for the scottish show
in IICR 1968 but was not taken serious because the government said the the weights would never exceed 32 tons
in the UK.
To answer a few questions that arise from the last few posts regarding the five Jeddah Falcon Freight units.
- It is possible that they ordered short rigid chassis to use as tractive units until such a time as they might use them as rigids or sell them on as rigids.
- This was commonplace in the Middle-East and still is - usually involving a rigid that is later fitted with a turntable for artic use.
- The trailers were just artic flat-beds for bagged cement.
- I don’t think we need get bogged down with CF’s distinction between tractor and tractor unit. To be pedantic for a moment: the correct and long-established term is tractive unit, this became tractor unit in drivers’ slang right back in the '70s or early '80s to my knowledge and is often shortened to just tractor or, more often unit. So there is absolutely no distinction unless you are using the old licensing classification of heavy-haulage tractor or locomotive.
My money is on them being short rigids with turntables and that picture (above) shows one that fits the description!
Here’s a picture (below) of a similar example I took in Cairo.
Robert
Behind the scene and since now the book “Lorries of Arabia” is published, also progress on the registers.
In close and thorough co-operation with Robert and also with content out of several posts over here, the
following registers are available. For NL, B, F, CH, UK, KSA and UAE. Please dont mind the columns at the
far right with CH, MB, K and V, but if you are curious now, they are intended to verify/exclude on details.
CH for Cab Handles (yes, no or alternatives)
MB for Mirror Brackets (original or alternatives)
K for Kysor (yes or no)
V for Visor (original or continental alternatives)
The number in the yellow cells is the total per relevant country to avoid doubles or even triples in counting.
A-J
ERF-Continental:
Behind the scene and since now the book “Lorries of Arabia” is published, also progress on the registers.
In close and thorough co-operation with Robert and also with content out of several posts over here, the
following registers are available. For NL, B, F, CH, UK, KSA and UAE. Please dont mind the columns at the
far right with CH, MB, K and V, but if you are curious now, they are intended to verify/exclude on details.
CH for Cab Handles (yes, no or alternatives)
MB for Mirror Brackets (original or alternatives)
K for Kysor (yes or no)
V for Visor (original or continental alternatives)
The number in the yellow cells is the total per relevant country to avoid doubles or even triples in counting.
Happy research and of course open for remarks, additions, corrections etc!
A-J
These sheets are a highly useful, most valuable and long overdue addition to this thread. Thank you very much for posting them, A-J. I’ve printed mine out to keep next to my laptop for quick reference. Robert
Carryfast:
robert1952:
To answer a few questions that arise from the last few posts regarding the five Jeddah Falcon Freight units.
- It is possible that they ordered short rigid chassis to use as tractive units until such a time as they might use them as rigids or sell them on as rigids.
- This was commonplace in the Middle-East and still is - usually involving a rigid that is later fitted with a turntable for artic use.
- The trailers were just artic flat-beds for bagged cement.
- I don’t think we need get bogged down with CF’s distinction between tractor and tractor unit. To be pedantic for a moment: the correct and long-established term is tractive unit, this became tractor unit in drivers’ slang right back in the '70s or early '80s to my knowledge and is often shortened to just tractor or, more often unit. So there is absolutely no distinction unless you are using the old licensing classification of heavy-haulage tractor or locomotive.
My money is on them being short rigids with turntables and that picture (above) shows one that fits the description!
Here’s a picture (below) of a similar example I took in Cairo.
Robert
0
The idea of units with the proportions and axle placing of rigids,especially in the case of 4x2 spec,certainly seems a bit strange. 
With the possible Falcon order pic seeming to be an extreme example if that is going to be used as a unit.In which case the trailer pin position would obviously be critical in distance from the front of the trailer bearing in mind the drive axle position relative to the overall chassis length.
While the idea of factory order records that don’t seem to differentiate ( factory build ) ballast tractors from artic tractor units.Let alone the idea of rigids ordered for tractor unit use not drawbars,bearing in mind at least all the trailer air supply differences and above mentioned coupling distance/clearance issues,just adds to the confusion in that regard.
Which logically just leaves two alternatives in that it is an ME specific weird combination of rigid/unit idea as you’ve described.
Or it is a rigid drawbar prime mover being that,with the exception of some local shunting specials as shown,the idea of a 4x2 ballast tractor doesn’t seem realistic.
While my obviously limited mostly Euro view of the transport world finds the latter easier to accept .Than the former.
It has to be borne in mind that all sorts of creative and eccentric practices can be adopted in countries where construction and use regulations as we know them are either non-existent or never enforced. And of course we are talking about a period forty years ago. Robert
hiya…i was thinking the European looks a lot of truck for 32 tons. and been 335 bhp so was it to big and heavy■■?
then i thought the crusader sold well in sleeper cab form with the 290 Rolls or 290 ■■■■■■■ in the uk the weight
couldn’t have been so different…maybe it was we at jennings couldn’t turn the cab interior out fast enough as
by 1973/4 cabs was coming from MP ready built but with no interior.was the b series a better deal ■■?.
John
3300John:
hiya…i was thinking the European looks a lot of truck for 32 tons. and been 335 bhp so was it to big and heavy■■?
then i thought the crusader sold well in sleeper cab form with the 290 Rolls or 290 ■■■■■■■ in the uk the weight
couldn’t have been so different…maybe it was we at jennings couldn’t turn the cab interior out fast enough as
by 1973/4 cabs was coming from MP ready built but with no interior.was the b series a better deal ■■?.
John
Well John, it was a 42-tonner; only in UK was it limited to 32. The B-series didn’t use the old 335 lump so it was more frugal than the NGC. Robert
Hiya…yes Robert where i was going Scammell sold a stack of crusader. high wide sleeper cabs with quite big engine (290s)
and for 32 tons…why didn’t the ERF sell in a similar configuration. i am certain a customer could have had a big cam 290
or even a 290 rolls(ERF fitted them)…was they to expensive. was the Scammell much lighter(Scammell was known to always
a have a good tare weight.just why didn’t customers fall in love with the 7mw European. glass fiber front was a good idea
to stop rust. ERF had a tilt cab…OR was the B series been talked about maybe beefed up for good sales and flooded out
the European.maybe ERF wanted the B series to out sell the 7mw…
John
