ERF:
By morning I should be able to tell you how many 7MW’s went out to Falcon Freight in that 1977 batch Robert. That might help?.
HUGELY! Thanks. 
Robert
Well done Robert…just where all gained information (thanks again to ERF-P and his personal archivist) belongs!
I have no access to the chassis-number of ex-Eyckmans 4x2 tractor and because of some changes (after the sale
and comparison of the chassis-plate…an extra axle added…gearbox-change) I think some are interested in its
birth-certificate?
Carryfast:
robert1952:
Here’s an even stronger case for my suspicion that the 1977 Falcon Freight unit wasn’t one of the 1974/5 batch: ‘ERF’ has just given details of this vehicle (on the LHD 5MW thread). As you can see it has an NTC 290 instead of a 335 (which the earlier batch had).7MW #31927 tractor for Falcon Freight (being the last 7MW)
5.34 Metre Wheelbase.
Despatched 22nd December 1977.
■■■■■■■ NTC E290, Engine Not Recorded. Gearbox - Fuller RT 9509A 54705. Axle ratio not recorded.I’m recording this as a new ‘find’ for now
I was just thinking didn’t the ‘‘E’’ refer to the big cam 290 v small cam 335 ?.Which might settle yet another small ‘disagreement’ between myself and Anorak as to big cam introduction dates/availability and/or wether any NGC’s were so fitted ?.Bearing in mind I’m still waiting for an apology from him concerning the similar related to the introduction of the Bedford TM 4400.
This wasn’t the only NGC to be fitted with one CF. I believe that HNV 59N, which belonged to ■■■■■■■ themselves had been retro-fitted with one. I imagine that they were trialling it. Robert
ERF-Continental:
Well done Robert…just where all gained information (thanks again to ERF-P and his personal archivist) belongs!I have no access to the chassis-number of ex-Eyckmans 4x2 tractor and because of some changes (after the sale
and comparison of the chassis-plate…an extra axle added…gearbox-change) I think some are interested in its
birth-certificate?
Hey, A-J / ‘ERF’: I have the chassis no. for the Eyckmans unit - it is 27371. Cheers, Robert
@Robert: still a pitty that Wobbe did not (want to) proceed on our previous ERF NGC-group, but on what
base he did ‘estimate’ 100 NGC’s were produced/sold?
ERF-Continental:
@Robert: still a pitty that Wobbe did not (want to) proceed on our previous ERF NGC-group, but on what
base he did ‘estimate’ 100 NGC’s were produced/sold?
He didn’t say. That’s why I thought no more about it! Robert
There’s more to UGE-852R than meets the eye. Thanks to ‘ERF’ we know today that its original cab (the one that was replaced by a 7MW) wasn’t a 4MW, it was a 6MW.
I’ve been looking back at some old notes in my files. Jerry Cooke sent me this info about UGE-852R some time back:
Engine: ■■■■■■■ NTC 335; serial number 10409863.
Gearbox: Fuller RTO 915 - 1047TR.
Rear axle: 43950 KF16953 - 1106RA.
Registration number: UGE 852R.
Model No. NGC 852 080.
Chassis number: 33315.
Look at the model number. NGC 852 is the same as the 6x4 tractor supplied by ERF to Cauvas in France. I knew that MW was just that shape cab, that ‘C’ meant ■■■■■■■■ that ‘85’ meant 85-tonner, and that ‘2’ meant double-drive. But I couldn’t understand why the unit wasn’t designated MGC as it had a 4MW (we now know 6MW) cab. Now if the rebuild had been undertaken by ERF, I could have understood them re-designating the vehicle; but as it was undertaken by Cossington Commercials this doesn’t make sense. Does anyone know if Cossington was a dedicated ERF dealership? Perhaps they were authorised by ERF to re-designate the vehicle. All very strange.
Incidentally, I did pop into ■■■■ Pountain’s yard on my travels whilst interviewing people for the book, but he was away. If anyone lives in Derbyshire perhaps they could ask him! Robert 
Carryfast:
?.Which might settle yet another small ‘disagreement’ between myself and Anorak as to big cam introduction dates/availability and/or wether any NGC’s were so fitted ?.Bearing in mind I’m still waiting for an apology from him concerning the similar related to the introduction of the Bedford TM 4400.
What the hell are you harping on about? Stop taking my username in vain.
.
Carryfast:
The example/s listed seem/s even more important in that regard being a factory fit ?.Which then leads to the next obvious question,bearing in my own personal view,what would/could possibly have been driving the customer choice for ordering the big cam NGC as opposed to B series.Bearing in mind the B series is being argued,by some,as the more modern/better product available since 1974.
[/quote]
Wait a minute - aren’t we barking up the wrong tree here: the NTC 290 was a small cam; the NTE 290 was the big cam. The E in front of the 290 must have meant something else. 
Either way, I won’t be drawn further into discussing info that you simply wish to use to score points against other users of this thread who are bringing much useful information to the table while you just rant. Robert
robert1952:
Wait a minute - aren’t we barking up the wrong tree here: the NTC 290 was a small cam; the NTE 290 was the big cam. The E in front of the 290 must have meant something else.
The E290 was the one called “big cam”. As I have tried to explain to the Loon on previous occasions, it was available from 1978, which explains why no NGC420s had them.
robert1952:
Carryfast:
The example/s listed seem/s even more important in that regard being a factory fit ?.Which then leads to the next obvious question,bearing in my own personal view,what would/could possibly have been driving the customer choice for ordering the big cam NGC as opposed to B series.Bearing in mind the B series is being argued,by some,as the more modern/better product available since 1974.
Wait a minute - aren’t we barking up the wrong tree here: the NTC 290 was a small cam; the NTE 290 was the big cam. The E in front of the 290 must have meant something else.
Either way, I won’t be drawn further into discussing info that you simply wish to use to score points against other users of this thread who are bringing much useful information to the table while you just rant. Robert
[/quote]
No forget about any side issues which are just that and can stay that for all I care.However a definitive answer as to the possible reason for the meaning of the E in the listing would be good in that regard. 
Or for that matter pondering the question as to why the customer choice of NGC v B series at that point in time.Bearing in mind the ‘expert consensus’ in that regard.
[zb]
anorak:robert1952:
Wait a minute - aren’t we barking up the wrong tree here: the NTC 290 was a small cam; the NTE 290 was the big cam. The E in front of the 290 must have meant something else.The E290 was the one called “big cam”. As I have tried to explain to the Loon on previous occasions, it was available from 1978, which explains why no NGC420s had them.
I think that was the reason for the question in that there is an ‘‘E’’ in the engine description.
Carryfast:
I think that was the reason for the question in that there is an ‘‘E’’ in the engine description.However as I said you also said that the TM 4400 wasn’t available before 1980 either.
I have never said that. The 386bhp Detroit version came out in 1980, I think. The lower-powered 4400s, with the E290 and E370 engines, date from about 1978, or thereabouts. Why don’t you check the CM archives yourself, instead of clogging up these threads with your made-up rubbish?
.
robert1952:
ERF:
By morning I should be able to tell you how many 7MW’s went out to Falcon Freight in that 1977 batch Robert. That might help?.HUGELY! Thanks.
I do hope this thread doesn’t go off track like some others…!.
Right… Falcon Freight took delivery of nine 7MW cabbed NGC’s between 17th October 1975 and 31st March 1976.
Just the one, the last one built, in 1977.
■■■■■■■ NTC E290, Engine Not Recorded - this is significant in itself. Engine not recorded usually meant some R&D engine of some kind with no sequential engine number.
My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that it probably was fitted with a UK ‘Big Cam’ NT E290 test engine, and that’s why it went out as a single unit.
The following quotes a very ■■■■■■■ knowledgeable friend of mine…
The ‘E’ was for Economy as they nearly doubled the mpg of the old engines.
The ‘Big Cam’ referred to the increase in diameter and profile of the camshaft which also controls the fuel injection and timing on these engines giving a shorter and sharper injection period.
They did however require a different driving style with no need to rev them flat out in every gear, although that was easier said than done as they are soon up there on the red line, and you could let them lug down to a 1,000 rpm before changing down.
They also created design problems for lorry builders as they needed a direct top gearbox linked to a high ratio diff to get the best out of them.
Note the gearbox fitted - Fuller RT 9509A 54705
A non overdrive (direct top) gearbox, where all the other NGC’s I’ve had checked had RTO (Overdrive) gearboxes.
Diff ratio not recorded - again, points at an R&D vehicle.
robert1952:
There’s more to UGE-852R than meets the eye. Thanks to ‘ERF’ we know today that its original cab (the one that was replaced by a 7MW) wasn’t a 4MW, it was a 6MW.I’ve been looking back at some old notes in my files. Jerry Cooke sent me this info about UGE-852R some time back:
Engine: ■■■■■■■ NTC 335; serial number 10409863.
Gearbox: Fuller RTO 915 - 1047TR.
Rear axle: 43950 KF16953 - 1106RA.
Registration number: UGE 852R.
Model No. NGC 852 080.
Chassis number: 33315.Look at the model number. NGC 852 is the same as the 6x4 tractor supplied by ERF to Cauvas in France. I knew that MW was just that shape cab, that ‘C’ meant ■■■■■■■■ that ‘85’ meant 85-tonner, and that ‘2’ meant double-drive. But I couldn’t understand why the unit wasn’t designated MGC as it had a 4MW (we now know 6MW) cab. Now if the rebuild had been undertaken by ERF, I could have understood them re-designating the vehicle; but as it was undertaken by Cossington Commercials this doesn’t make sense. Does anyone know if Cossington was a dedicated ERF dealership? Perhaps they were authorised by ERF to re-designate the vehicle…
This information is not correct to the vehicles build.
UGE 852R is chassis number 33315.
Model - MDC852.080 (66CU310)
■■■■■■■ NTC 335
Cab not recorded (in pen 6MW).
Despatch date - 24th February 1977
Customer - West of Scotland Excavations Ltd. Via dealer Bowen.
The archivist is sure this vehicle went through the hands of Pilikington, but may be mistaken.
Cossington were an ERF dealership by the way, and were authorised by ERF to rebuild the vehicle, but I would of thought the chassis designation stayed as built - they usually did.
ERF:
robert1952:
ERF:
By morning I should be able to tell you how many 7MW’s went out to Falcon Freight in that 1977 batch Robert. That might help?.HUGELY! Thanks.
I do hope this thread doesn’t go off track like some others…!.
Right… Falcon Freight took delivery of nine 7MW cabbed NGC’s between 17th October 1975 and 31st March 1976.
Just the one, the last one built, in 1977.
■■■■■■■ NTC E290, Engine Not Recorded - this is significant in itself. Engine not recorded usually meant some R&D engine of some kind with no sequential engine number.My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that it probably was fitted with a UK ‘Big Cam’ NT E290 test engine, and that’s why it went out as a single unit.
The following quotes a very ■■■■■■■ knowledgeable friend of mine…
The ‘E’ was for Economy as they nearly doubled the mpg of the old engines.
The ‘Big Cam’ referred to the increase in diameter and profile of the camshaft which also controls the fuel injection and timing on these engines giving a shorter and sharper injection period.
They did however require a different driving style with no need to rev them flat out in every gear, although that was easier said than done as they are soon up there on the red line, and you could let them lug down to a 1,000 rpm before changing down.
They also created design problems for lorry builders as they needed a direct top gearbox linked to a high ratio diff to get the best out of them.Note the gearbox fitted - Fuller RT 9509A 54705
A non overdrive (direct top) gearbox, where all the other NGC’s I’ve had checked had RTO (Overdrive) gearboxes.
Diff ratio not recorded - again, points at an R&D vehicle.
This is a gem of a post for me, Thank you! That gives us not only five ‘new’ NGCs but five ‘new’ Middle-East ones (shame the book’s been printed!).
Thank you too for your patient explanation of the NT E290 and its relationship with the direct top RT 9095A. Robert
ERF:
robert1952:
There’s more to UGE-852R than meets the eye. Thanks to ‘ERF’ we know today that its original cab (the one that was replaced by a 7MW) wasn’t a 4MW, it was a 6MW.I’ve been looking back at some old notes in my files. Jerry Cooke sent me this info about UGE-852R some time back:
Engine: ■■■■■■■ NTC 335; serial number 10409863.
Gearbox: Fuller RTO 915 - 1047TR.
Rear axle: 43950 KF16953 - 1106RA.
Registration number: UGE 852R.
Model No. NGC 852 080.
Chassis number: 33315.Look at the model number. NGC 852 is the same as the 6x4 tractor supplied by ERF to Cauvas in France. I knew that MW was just that shape cab, that ‘C’ meant ■■■■■■■■ that ‘85’ meant 85-tonner, and that ‘2’ meant double-drive. But I couldn’t understand why the unit wasn’t designated MGC as it had a 4MW (we now know 6MW) cab. Now if the rebuild had been undertaken by ERF, I could have understood them re-designating the vehicle; but as it was undertaken by Cossington Commercials this doesn’t make sense. Does anyone know if Cossington was a dedicated ERF dealership? Perhaps they were authorised by ERF to re-designate the vehicle…
This information is not correct to the vehicles build.
UGE 852R is chassis number 33315.
Model - MDC852.080 (66CU310)
■■■■■■■ NTC 335
Cab not recorded (in pen 6MW).
Despatch date - 24th February 1977
Customer - West of Scotland Excavations Ltd. Via dealer Bowen.
The archivist is sure this vehicle went through the hands of Pilikington, but may be mistaken.Cossington were an ERF dealership by the way, and were authorised by ERF to rebuild the vehicle, but I would of thought the chassis designation stayed as built - they usually did.
Another gem! Thank you. Actually I’m rather relieved that this unit has its own proper model code (MDC852) as it saves a lot of confusion. Most grateful for your research. Robert
robert1952:
ERF-Continental:
Well done Robert…just where all gained information (thanks again to ERF-P and his personal archivist) belongs!I have no access to the chassis-number of ex-Eyckmans 4x2 tractor and because of some changes (after the sale
and comparison of the chassis-plate…an extra axle added…gearbox-change) I think some are interested in its
birth-certificate?Hey, A-J / ‘ERF’: I have the chassis no. for the Eyckmans unit - it is 27371. Cheers, Robert
Chassis 27371
Model - NGC 420.260 (64CU335).
Cab - 7MW
■■■■■■■ NTC 335
Gearbox - Fuller RT 9508A 53470 (a strange one ending 8A - and another non overdrive direct top).
Despatch date - 24th May 1974
Dealer - CD Belgium
Customer - Eyckman
Reg number - 7DF44