It is also possible that the NGC 420 was marginalised by the fashion-consciousness of drivers and operators. Drivers were certainly wooed by competitors’ synchromesh gearboxes and slightly more comfortable cabs but, more significantly, they were also wooed by the badge on the radiator. After all, Scania, Volvo and Mercedes Benz were seen as the automotive designer labels of the day. These were all excellent trucks of course, but so was the ERF, as TRUCK’s Trans Euro Test verified. There may be other factors now lost to us over the passage of time and these are all strictly speculations: we just don’t know, of course - but the baby was probably thrown out with the bathwater! Robert
robert1952:
Look at this magnificent beast! It is seen here at the end of its life after serving with Shamara. The photo was kindly lent to me by Jerry Cooke. Actually, I think it was the most nicely-proportioned of the five 6x4s with 7MW cabs, probably because it is the only one with a short wheelbase. It probably started life as an NGC 420 and we know was originally a 4x2. Once converted, it would become (in theory) an NGC 852 (NG cab + ■■■■■■■ lump + 85t gross + double-drive).
It is surely time to drop the figure ‘420’ from the name for this model. NGC, yes of course: apparently they all were. ‘European’, yes indeed: they all were. But ‘420’, like ‘360’ and ‘380’ is a bit meaningless. As I described several pages back on this thread, all NGCs appear to have been built with the heavy-duty waisted chassis for maximum permitted weight. This means that in Britain it could run at 32 tonnes but in Holland it could run at 50 tonnes gtw. So, in practice it became an NGC 320 in Manchester, an NGC 500 in Rotterdam, an NGC 380 in Bordeaux, an NGC 420 in Anterwerpen and an NGC 1000 in Jeddah because it was legitimately hauling road-trains grossing up to 100 tonnes!
So from now on, I’m sticking to ERF NGC ‘European’. I’ve already dropped ‘420’ from my text for the book. But the really exciting thing is that just as we start to get smug and complacent about this comfortable new position, some [zb] will open a shed door and find an NGG 340 (plated at 34 tonnes) with Gardner 8LXB in it and dear old Carryfast’ll have to have a little lie-down and I’ll have to re-write the f***king book! LOL Robert
Hi Robert, and fellow bloggers. With this load GEH 513N would have to be a “NGC 1050” as the gross weight was 105 tons when this crusher main frame was moved from Enderby quarry to Horton in Ribblesdale.
Can you tell me who makes the model of the NGC shown on the previous page and are they still available?
Regards, Colin.
Hi Robert
Have been following this thread with interest and thought I would offer some photos of the European particularly GEH. I believe it was first owned by Albert Dale the dedicated owner driver for Beresford Transport who seemed to spec his own choice of truck . I’m not sure if JDF132N was his as well but being the same year of registration it may not of been but I’m sure your followers will put me right. On the subject of copyright although these photos are from my collection they are not my own so please credit the originators.
robert1952:
4Look at this magnificent beast! It is seen here at the end of its life after serving with Shamara. The photo was kindly lent to me by Jerry Cooke. Actually, I think it was the most nicely-proportioned of the five 6x4s with 7MW cabs, probably because it is the only one with a short wheelbase. It probably started life as an NGC 420 and we know was originally a 4x2. Once converted, it would become (in theory) an NGC 852 (NG cab + ■■■■■■■ lump + 85t gross + double-drive).
It is surely time to drop the figure ‘420’ from the name for this model. NGC, yes of course: apparently they all were. ‘European’, yes indeed: they all were. But ‘420’, like ‘360’ and ‘380’ is a bit meaningless. As I described several pages back on this thread, all NGCs appear to have been built with the heavy-duty waisted chassis for maximum permitted weight. This means that in Britain it could run at 32 tonnes but in Holland it could run at 50 tonnes gtw. So, in practice it became an NGC 320 in Manchester, an NGC 500 in Rotterdam, an NGC 380 in Bordeaux, an NGC 420 in Anterwerpen and an NGC 1000 in Jeddah because it was legitimately hauling road-trains grossing up to 100 tonnes!
So from now on, I’m sticking to ERF NGC ‘European’. I’ve already dropped ‘420’ from my text for the book. But the really exciting thing is that just as we start to get smug and complacent about this comfortable new position, some [zb] will open a shed door and find an NGG 340 (plated at 34 tonnes) with Gardner 8LXB in it and dear old Carryfast’ll have to have a little lie-down and I’ll have to re-write the f***king book! LOL Robert
3
Hi Robert, and fellow bloggers. With this load GEH 513N would have to be a “NGC 1050” as the gross weight was 105 tons when this crusher main frame was moved from Enderby quarry to Horton in Ribblesdale.
Can you tell me who makes the model of the NGC shown on the previous page and are they still available?
Regards, Colin.
Hi Robert
Have been following this thread with interest and thought I would offer some photos of the European particularly GEH. I believe it was first owned by Albert Dale the dedicated owner driver for Beresford Transport who seemed to spec his own choice of truck . I’m not sure if JDF132N was his as well but being the same year of registration it may not of been but I’m sure your followers will put me right. On the subject of copyright although these photos are from my collection they are not my own so please credit the originators.2
Thank you for posting these, and thank you for the ‘collection permission’ as I call it. I could use the JDF pic. Funnily enough, I too have the middle picture. I have the first picture earmarked for the book from someone else’s collection. I think that now a lot of pictures are appearing on ebay that have been replicated because I have bought some that have also turned up in other people’s collections (what a minefield)! I don’t think JDF 132N was Albert’s but who ever had it may have registered it first in France because it is reported to have been operated from Calais in Beresford livery on Swiss work. Thanks again mate. Robert
Someone suggested that Greer of Holiton had another ERF beside the NGC shown in Peter Davies’s picture. Does anyone know if that was a second NGC or something different? Robert
Following Rob Campbell’s post above, it occurred to me that the middle picture of GEH is, to my knowledge, in Rob Campbell’s collection, Jerry Cooke’s collection and my own collection. I can think of several more examples of ERF NGC pictures alone; and several examples of other ERF pics in multiple domains. We should start declaring this stuff to each other by being open on these threads. The same pictures are being sold on ebay repeatedly and they only get away with this because of the mentality of hoarders who don’t know what each other possess because of their secrecy. Who can blame email opportunists for exploiting this weakness?
‘Anorak’ summed it up well on this very thread when he reproached those who would use ‘copyright’ as an excuse to protect their hoarding instincts. I had a message recently from a collector who has material on ERF NGCs expressing his amazement and disappointment that he was able to find so much material on this thread, AS IF THIS STUFF WERE TOP-SECRET! If I stumbled upon a super-abundance of high-quality material about my pet subject on a thread as excellent as this, I’d open a bottle of champagne and add everything useful I had to the damned thread. Actually, looking back, I think that’s exactly what I did So there you go chaps, rant over. The basic message is, we’ve probably got most of each other’s pics anyway so lets pool them and enjoy, now that the digital age is upon us. Robert
Rob Campbell:
I’m not sure if JDF132N was his as well but being the same year of registration it may not of been but I’m sure your followers will put me right.
To offer a little clue to it’s original registration, the suffix DF denotes it as first registered in Gloucestershire.
Richard Read of Longhope Gloucestershire were main ERF dealers for the region.
Whether is was originally on his fleet, Vijore or maybe even a demonstrator, I do not know but that would be a good place to start.
Rob Campbell:
I’m not sure if JDF132N was his as well but being the same year of registration it may not of been but I’m sure your followers will put me right.
To offer a little clue to it’s original registration, the suffix DF denotes it as first registered in Gloucestershire.
Richard Read of Longhope Gloucestershire were main ERF dealers for the region.
Whether is was originally on his fleet, Vijore or maybe even a demonstrator, I do not know but that would be a good place to start.
Brilliantly observed ya Zzarbean! Let’s follow this lead then… Robert
Up until recently, Richard Read still had an N reg NGC on the recovery fleet. It was re-cabbed with a factory sleeper B series cab and used by the workshop i think. Dont know if its still in their ownership, but i’m pretty sure it had a JDF reg.
STRAIGHT EIGHT:
Up until recently, Richard Read still had an N reg NGC on the recovery fleet. It was re-cabbed with a factory sleeper B series cab and used by the workshop i think. Dont know if its still in their ownership, but i’m pretty sure it had a JDF reg.
Regards, Chris.
I believe you may be thinking of HDF 228N, which was a LHD 5MW-cabbed unit: it was eventually given RHD and a B-series cab and remained with RRead for a long time. Pic below. Robert
ERF-Continental:
Just found on the internet with reference to transportfotos.nl parked and waiting for the driver?
C. Groenenboom was located in Ridderkerk, not far from Rotterdam and still active in container-transport
Sunny regards,
A-J
A good find, A-J! And quite an evocative picture, given the light. Perhaps he is parking up for the night behind one of those Dutch truck stops of which there were still many in the '70s. Or perhaps it is sunrise and he’s been following the misty canals until breakfast time. Whatever. This unit was registered 12-97-FB and it passed to Steef Slappendel in Holland, who briefly did Middle-East work with it; after which it went out to Trans Arabia in Jeddah and carried the fleet number 139. Here is a Jerry Cooke picture of it in Jeddah. Robert
Evening all, very enjoyable thread this, particularly the relentless pursuit of detail.
Regarding the various statements concerning the ■■■■■■■ 335, and why it was picked by ERF for this model, perhaps the following information may clarify the reasons…
French Market.
335 engine loose unit sales, period 1972/73, 180 units
335 engine loose unit sales period 1974 100 units
I have ignored the loose unit sales for 220, 250, and KT as they are not relevant to this thread.
The 335 was a favourite" repower" for the Berliet TBO, GBO, (particularly the Ricardo versions), Willeme RD, and TG , where they normally replaced the Detroit serie 71, 10, or 12 cylinder versions.Plus "shoehorning into all sorts of other lorries where “big” power was needed!
Perhaps Brian Hunt as an ex ■■■■■■■ man knew what the market wanted?
Saviem:
Evening all, very enjoyable thread this, particularly the relentless pursuit of detail.
Regarding the various statements concerning the ■■■■■■■ 335, and why it was picked by ERF for this model, perhaps the following information may clarify the reasons…
French Market.
335 engine loose unit sales, period 1972/73, 180 units
335 engine loose unit sales period 1974 100 units
I have ignored the loose unit sales for 220, 250, and KT as they are not relevant to this thread.
The 335 was a favourite" repower" for the Berliet TBO, GBO, (particularly the Ricardo versions), Willeme RD, and TG , where they normally replaced the Detroit serie 71, 10, or 12 cylinder versions.Plus "shoehorning into all sorts of other lorries where “big” power was needed!
Perhaps Brian Hunt as an ex ■■■■■■■ man knew what the market wanted?
Cheerio for now.
Was the NTC cheap to buy in the aftermarket? I ask this because the reconditioning costs of the other engines cannot have been anywhere near the price of a new engine. Did the Berliet and Detroit engines have inferior reliability, compared to the ■■■■■■■■
adr:
Not sure which ERF category this 1 comes under? South African spec’, ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ driveline!
South African built with local cab and I think some even had local engines; and of course right-hand drive - so definitely not an ERF ‘European’ then! Robert
