Detail from a picture taken by Eric Vick NGC driver, Chris Till. Robert
I was sent these 3 ‘new’ NGC pictures this morning. They show 16-37-FB which belonged to Groen of Nieuw Lekkerland in Holland from '75 to '82. Robert 
Robert,
Have you had your felt tips out on Mr Curbishley’s motor?!
pete smith:
Robert,
Have you had your felt tips out on Mr Curbishley’s motor?!
Yes! We had some discussion near the beginning of the thread about why it was called the ‘European’; and jokingly, I said that perhaps there should have been an NGC ‘Arabian’ and I knocked up this image in ‘paint’. Since then it seems to have gone viral because I notice that it’s appeared in Pintinterest now 
! Robert
robert1952:
pete smith:
Robert,
Have you had your felt tips out on Mr Curbishley’s motor?!
My Mate has just bought a C series and I was having a look to see if any old pics of it and that image came up! Will post a pic of the C series when its in yard next week, E320, 9sp fuller and rockwell back end,
pete smith:
robert1952:
pete smith:
Robert,
Have you had your felt tips out on Mr Curbishley’s motor?!
My Mate has just bought a C series and I was having a look to see if any old pics of it and that image came up! Will post a pic of the C series when its in yard next week, E320, 9sp fuller and rockwell back end,
Perfect combo - looking forward to seeing it! Robert
Just escaping from the Bah Humbug thread to sneak this one in!
With thanks to the artist, ‘STG’, I wish all perusers of this thread cheerful Compliments of the Season!
Cheers! Robert
See more detailed version of this post further down page. R
Oddly enough, I’ve just found yet another reference in this months crop of magazines. In the December 2016 issue of Heritage Commercial there is a short piece called Building the ‘European’, written by DA Oulton who used to assemble the cabs for JH Jennings / ERF in Sandbach. He mentions the datedness of the cabs as time progressed and he expresses an opinion suggesting that money might have been spent on developing them. (Presumably, he means before anyone thought to develop the B-series day cab). Interesting piece, though. Robert
robert1952:
Oddly enough, I’ve just found yet another reference in this months crop of magazines. In the December 2016 issue of Heritage Commercial there is a short piece called Building the ‘European’, written by DA Oulten who used to assemble the cabs for JH Jennings / ERF in Sandbach. He mentions the datedness of the cabs as time progressed and he expresses an opinion suggesting that money might have been spent on developing them. (Presumably, he means before anyone thought to develop the B-series day cab). Interesting piece, though. Robert
Need to read that one up…he’s a new guy to me. i can name all the lads in the panel shop who was assembling the steel cabs…
the B series was on the cards in 71… the cab tilt frame was going to be used on the 7and 8 lv cabs… ive pointed this out before…
John
^^His piece also recalls an interesting discussion between Peter Foden and a UK customer who wanted to buy a ‘good few’ UK versions of the NGC but was refused. The writer was involved in preparing the NGC for its launch in Brussels in 1973.
With reference to the piece Building the ‘European’ in the December issue, I was interested in DA Oulten’s observations.
Firstly, his memory of the conversation between Peter Foden and a customer wishing to order ‘a good few’ UK-spec NGC and being refused that request answers the question, ‘was a UK-spec considered?’ but still leaves the question of ‘why?’ unanswered.
Secondly, he expresses a valid opinion that the cab probably needed to be developed and upgraded. However, he would have been aware that the B-series Euro-spec SP sleeper cab was under development and would eventually replace the NGC with its 7MW cab in 1977. Although the SP cab was more sophisticated, it is arguable that the NGC was still a significantly more comfortable unit to drive than the B-series.
Robert
robert1952:
^^His piece also recalls an interesting discussion between Peter Foden and a UK customer who wanted to buy a ‘good few’ UK versions of the NGC but was refused. The writer was involved in preparing the NGC for its launch in Brussels in 1973.With reference to the piece Building the ‘European’ in the December issue, I was interested in DA Oulten’s observations.
Firstly, his memory of the conversation between Peter Foden and a customer wishing to order ‘a good few’ UK-spec NGC and being refused that request answers the question, ‘was a UK-spec considered?’ but still leaves the question of ‘why?’ unanswered.
Does it say what the customer in question’s definition of ‘uk’ spec was ?.Assuming he was asking for the typical poverty power and driveline spec Brit of the day maybe the realisation suddenly dawned on Peter that such a move could damage the credibility of the product. 
IE with the exception of offering rhd it’s big power turbo ■■■■■■■ and fuller or nothing take it or leave it.If not possibly a request for an impossible to meet unladen weight reduction target ?.
As for further devlopment of the cab going by the photos available it’s difficult to see what they could have ‘improved’ in any big way by the standards of the day.Bearing in mind the SA 400 cab was always going to be the benchmark in terms of MP cab development from that point on anyway.
Carryfast:
robert1952:
^^His piece also recalls an interesting discussion between Peter Foden and a UK customer who wanted to buy a ‘good few’ UK versions of the NGC but was refused. The writer was involved in preparing the NGC for its launch in Brussels in 1973.With reference to the piece Building the ‘European’ in the December issue, I was interested in DA Oulten’s observations.
Firstly, his memory of the conversation between Peter Foden and a customer wishing to order ‘a good few’ UK-spec NGC and being refused that request answers the question, ‘was a UK-spec considered?’ but still leaves the question of ‘why?’ unanswered.
Does it say what the customer in question’s definition of ‘uk’ spec was ?.Assuming he was asking for the typical poverty power and driveline spec Brit of the day maybe the realisation suddenly dawned on Peter that such a move could damage the credibility of the product.
As for further devlopment of the cab going by the photos available it’s difficult to see what they could have ‘improved’ in any big way by the standards of the day.Bearing in mind the SA 400 cab was always going to be the benchmark in terms of MP cab development from that point on anyway.
I got the impression that the conversation was overheard - I may be wrong. I’ll write to the mag concerned and seek a response with clarification. I’m with you on the SA400 cab but remember that SA commissioned that themselves, just as ERF designed and commissioned the 7MW cab; and buying in another MP design would have prevented them from moving to an in-house design as happened with the SP cab. Cheers, Robert
I’ve now written to the mag and perhaps a valuable new NGC contact will come out of it - I hope so! Robert
I got a copy of Kelsey Publishing Group’s Road Haulage Arichive series (issue 9) yesterday. It’s called ‘The Rare Ones’, in which Malcom Bates looks back at some of the less common lorries on our roads - it is fascinating. In one chapter, The ERF Story, he devotes a page to the NGC ‘European’ – a scan of which I attach here (the page only: not the whole article). Nonetheless, it is refreshing to read others’ opinions about these vehicles and I’m certainly glad he took the trouble to mention them.
However, somewhat to my amusement given my enthusiasm for the model, he has hardly a good word to say for them, and I’m a bit perplexed by his scathing criticisms of the ERF NGC 420 which, incidentally, he describes as a 38-tonner when it was a 42-tonner.
He remarks on the smallness of cab windows ‘that started out life fitted to the Seddon 13.4’. Well, that’s not quite accurate: the Seddon had an early narrow low Mark 3 Motor Panels cab whereas the NGC had a late full-width tall version of the Mark 4 cab – significantly different, then. The driving position and forward view were actually excellent – perhaps he’s never sat in one! He grumbles about the front end not looking right. This is more subjective and a matter of taste: in Lorries of Arabia Book 1, I described the windscreen as being well-proportioned and in harmony with the front end.
Also, he complains that ‘the whole structure looked slab sided’. Again, this is subjective, but I went to some lengths in my Book 1 to describe how the subtle architecture of this cab mitigated against austerity of appearance.
Then Malcom suggests that the three-way roof hatch was a lame excuse for the absence of air-conditioning; completely overlooking the fact that the aperture was specially designed to accommodate a Kysor roof-mounted air-con unit – and many NGCs were actually fitted with these.
He grumbles about the Rostrum seats. Well, they were the thrones of the day for British-built lorries, after all.
Next, he describes the lift-up inspection grille as ‘trendy’ and ‘clumsy’. Were the opposition much better in 1973? I don’t think so.
Robert
robert1952:
However, somewhat to my amusement given my enthusiasm for the model, he has hardly a good word to say for them, and I’m a bit perplexed by his scathing criticisms of the ERF NGC 420 which, incidentally, he describes as a 38-tonner when it was a 42-tonner.He remarks on the smallness of cab windows ‘that started out life fitted to the Seddon 13.4’. Well, that’s not quite accurate: the Seddon had an early narrow low Mark 3 Motor Panels cab whereas the NGC had a late full-width tall version of the Mark 4 cab – significantly different, then. The driving position and forward view were actually excellent – perhaps he’s never sat in one! He grumbles about the front end not looking right. This is more subjective and a matter of taste: in Lorries of Arabia Book 1, I described the windscreen as being well-proportioned and in harmony with the front end.
Also, he complains that ‘the whole structure looked slab sided’. Again, this is subjective, but I went to some lengths in my Book 1 to describe how the subtle architecture of this cab mitigated against austerity of appearance.
Then Malcom suggests that the three-way roof hatch was a lame excuse for the absence of air-conditioning; completely overlooking the fact that the aperture was specially designed to accommodate a Kysor roof-mounted air-con unit – and many NGCs were actually fitted with these.
He grumbles about the Rostrum seats. Well, they were the thrones of the day for British-built lorries, after all.
Next, he describes the lift-up inspection grille as ‘trendy’ and ‘clumsy’. Were the opposition much better in 1973? I don’t think so.
Robert
Blimey he thinks there’s not enough glass when I’d have got rid of all the windows in the sleeper area just like most other foreign heaps. 
As for slab sided yes just like any other cab over whether Euro or US.Then he’s got the nerve to say that he doesn’t like Bostrom seats when they were just about the most comfortable seats I’ve ever known especially compared to those more recent evil uncomfortable Isringhausen things.While any driver would actually have been very lucky to have had them specced in anything,especially the usual poverty spec Brit heaps,of the day. 
On that note no your enthusiasm is well placed robert while as for that over view there’s a difference between objective criticsm v ignorance. 
That bloke could easily be a member of the Bah Humbug club
Carryfast:
robert1952:
However, somewhat to my amusement given my enthusiasm for the model, he has hardly a good word to say for them, and I’m a bit perplexed by his scathing criticisms of the ERF NGC 420 which, incidentally, he describes as a 38-tonner when it was a 42-tonner.He remarks on the smallness of cab windows ‘that started out life fitted to the Seddon 13.4’. Well, that’s not quite accurate: the Seddon had an early narrow low Mark 3 Motor Panels cab whereas the NGC had a late full-width tall version of the Mark 4 cab – significantly different, then. The driving position and forward view were actually excellent – perhaps he’s never sat in one! He grumbles about the front end not looking right. This is more subjective and a matter of taste: in Lorries of Arabia Book 1, I described the windscreen as being well-proportioned and in harmony with the front end.
Also, he complains that ‘the whole structure looked slab sided’. Again, this is subjective, but I went to some lengths in my Book 1 to describe how the subtle architecture of this cab mitigated against austerity of appearance.
Then Malcom suggests that the three-way roof hatch was a lame excuse for the absence of air-conditioning; completely overlooking the fact that the aperture was specially designed to accommodate a Kysor roof-mounted air-con unit – and many NGCs were actually fitted with these.
He grumbles about the Rostrum seats. Well, they were the thrones of the day for British-built lorries, after all.
Next, he describes the lift-up inspection grille as ‘trendy’ and ‘clumsy’. Were the opposition much better in 1973? I don’t think so.
Robert
Blimey he thinks there’s not enough glass when I’d have got rid of all the windows in the sleeper area just like most other foreign heaps.
I agree with all that! Wise words, CF . Robert.
pv83:
That bloke could easily be a member of the Bah Humbug club
I’ll get ROF to sign him in! Robert
