Driving with out a valid tax disc

[roymondo]

Mike-C:
True,well sort of, but seeing as the Police do not prosectute these offences and they report them to DVLA instead i’m pretty certain there hasn’t been a prosecution against a driver where there has against a registered keeper. In general as an employee, you’re pretty much omitted from all the paperwork side of things. Anyway, he’s still got a day or two left yet .Hopefully.

That’s a country mile away from “You will not get prosecuted” - which was your original assertion. It is also even further removed from “the person ‘using’ the vehicle is the owner/operator and not the driver” which you also claimed.

[actrosman]

nick2008:

Actrosman:
I was delivering to my regular night time drop and noticed that the truck that was on the bay before me was showing no tax or O license or anything. Couple of weeks later when it was there again, still no tax disc. I happened to mention this and the driver told me that the owner had 4 or 5 of these motors and none were showing tax, as they were ‘rented from a company in Ireland’ and apparently, VOSA had been in and they had been given the all clear. That I don’t know, but the trucks are still running around showing no disc, as I was talking to the driver last week…he was telling me about some ‘big thing’ that’s coming up in the Middle East quite soon

whats that gotta do with ur tax disc

It’s got ■■■■ all to do with ‘my’ tax disc but neither has the original post. Put that bit in as some of the more learned people on here might now who the operative is without them being named #JustSaying

[mike-c]

Roymondo:

Mike-C:
True,well sort of, but seeing as the Police do not prosectute these offences and they report them to DVLA instead i’m pretty certain there hasn’t been a prosecution against a driver where there has against a registered keeper. In general as an employee, you’re pretty much omitted from all the paperwork side of things. Anyway, he’s still got a day or two left yet .Hopefully.

That’s a country mile away from “You will not get prosecuted” - which was your original assertion. It is also even further removed from “the person ‘using’ the vehicle is the owner/operator and not the driver” which you also claimed.

Ok, lets make it more definate then…
You will be considered to be the user of the
vehicle if:
…
the driver is your employee or agent (i.e.
you pay them to drive the vehicle for you).

He won’t get done or prosecuted. The operator will. All the licensing and neccesary legal paperwork for the lorry is the operators responsability. An employee couldn’t tax a vehicle if he wanted to, its not his responsability.

[nick2008]

Mike-C:

Roymondo:

Mike-C:
True,well sort of, but seeing as the Police do not prosectute these offences and they report them to DVLA instead i’m pretty certain there hasn’t been a prosecution against a driver where there has against a registered keeper. In general as an employee, you’re pretty much omitted from all the paperwork side of things. Anyway, he’s still got a day or two left yet .Hopefully.

That’s a country mile away from “You will not get prosecuted” - which was your original assertion. It is also even further removed from “the person ‘using’ the vehicle is the owner/operator and not the driver” which you also claimed.

Ok, lets make it more definate then…
You will be considered to be the user of the
vehicle if:
…
the driver is your employee or agent (i.e.
you pay them to drive the vehicle for you).

He won’t get done or prosecuted. The operator will. All the licensing and neccesary legal paperwork for the lorry is the operators responsability. An employee couldn’t tax a vehicle if he wanted to, its not his responsability.

I agree with that Mike but is it not the drivers responsibility to ensure to the extent that during his PVI he should flag that the Tax is out of date /missing the same as the O licence an in doing so should not the items missing or invalid.
We had a similar situation so got head office to fax a copy of the disc till it arrived, we also do the same for missing trailer plates etc

[mike-c]

nick2008:
I agree with that Mike but is it not the drivers responsibility to ensure to the extent that during his PVI he should flag that the Tax is out of date /missing the same as the O licence an in doing so should not the items missing or invalid.
We had a similar situation so got head office to fax a copy of the disc till it arrived, we also do the same for missing trailer plates etc

Yeah you should flag it up as he has done. I’m not sure what the OP means when he says…“[the boss] fobbed him off” ? With an O licence as you mention, its no harm to flag it up but there’s lots of circumstances where one is not required in the window. Not sure if this is up to date info but for example hired in units can be run for about a month with no disc in the window, thats assuming the operator has spare capacity. Not that the driver should or would know.
We still don’t know when the vehicle should of been taxed. Like i said if it was meant to start a few days ago then he’s probably worrying about nothing. If it should of started last month, well there’s going to be bigger problems ahead.

[roymondo]

The driver is (legally) responsible for ensuring that the tax disc is displayed in the prescribed manner before he takes it on a public road, just as he is legally responsible for ensuring that the tyres have tread on them and that the lights work. If he takes it on the road without a disc (or tread, or working lights) he commits an offence. Both of them are, from a legal POV “using” the vehicle, and both of them are liable to be prosecuted. The fact that you are not aware of any driver being prosecuted is neither here nor there - I have personally given evidence in such cases and can assure you the DVLA will happily prosecute them as well as the owner/operator (although they will generally only go for the owner to recover any back-tax).

[diggerdigs72]

diggerdigs72:
Can anybody help please,i work for a small company operating to 18ton Lorry’s. My lorry has since run out of tax and i keep asking my boss for a new tax disc but he keeps making excuses about getting it. How do i stand with the law is it me that will be prosecuted if i get stopped ? please help. Thanks.

Thanks to everyone’s answers. I have since shown my boss all your comments and he has now put a tax disc on the lorry Thanks again everyone much appreciated.

[runcorn_rover_1]

Found the below info on the Avon & Somerset police website and hope it is useful:-

“Section 33 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 provides the offences of failing to display or exhibit a vehicle licence, trade licence or nil licence.
33(1) It is an offence to use or keep on a public road a vehicle in respect of which excise duty is payable (this includes vehicle licences, and trade licences) and which is not displaying the licence in the appropriate manner.”

Notice that it is an offence both to keep AND use the vehicle!

Anyway, here are the consequences:-

“More often than not this offence is prosecuted by the Department of Transport (DVLA). The police officer submits form CLE 2/6 (or CLE 2/8) direct to the department.”

In the case of HGVs the form is called a CLE 2/7T, but the process appears to be the same.

[mike-c]

runcorn rover:
Found the below info on the Avon & Somerset police website and hope it is useful:-

“Section 33 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 provides the offences of failing to display or exhibit a vehicle licence, trade licence or nil licence.
33(1) It is an offence to use or keep on a public road a vehicle in respect of which excise duty is payable (this includes vehicle licences, and trade licences) and which is not displaying the licence in the appropriate manner.”

Notice that it is an offence both to keep AND use the vehicle!

Anyway, here are the consequences:-

“More often than not this offence is prosecuted by the Department of Transport (DVLA). The police officer submits form CLE 2/6 (or CLE 2/8) direct to the department.”

In the case of HGVs the form is called a CLE 2/7T, but the process appears to be the same.

Its not really usefull to be honest. The Police have reproduced a snippet not entireley in context.
Here’s how it is…
Section 29 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 says…

29 Penalty for using or keeping unlicensed vehicle.

(1)If a person uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle (not being an exempt vehicle) which is unlicensed he is guilty of an offence.

This was ammended by Schedule 45 sect 2 of the Finance Act 2008

so now it should read…

29 Penalty for using or keeping unlicensed vehicle.

(1)If a person uses, or keeps,a vehicle (not being an exempt vehicle) which is unlicensed he is guilty of an offence.

What this means is that once the tax is expired and the vehicle has not been registered as SORN or had an application for a new tax disc is that the (usually) registered keeper of the vehicle has now comitted an offence. Thats the offence right there, it doesn’t need to go on a road.
Now, as regards displaying a disc…
well its back to the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994
Section 33 which says…

33 Not exhibiting licence.(1)A person is guilty of an offence if–
(a)he uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle in respect of which vehicle excise duty is chargeable, and
(b)there is not fixed to and exhibited on the vehicle in the manner prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State a licence for, or in respect of, the vehicle which is for the time being in force.

And what that means is that if its licencsed you need to display it. If its not licensed then this does not apply to you and you go back to section 29.
Blackstone’s Police Operational Handbook 2013 will confirm this too, as will Road Traffic Offences
By Winston Gordon, Philip Cuddy, Andy Wesson

And what this means in respect of an employee driving a truck with no disc in the circumstances the OP described is that he won’t get done. The Police and the Courts in some cases don’t know their arse from their elbow, so it pays to know this sort of stuff yourself.

[mundyman]

off topic a wee bit on this, but theres a car dumped on my street, tax ran out 31 dec, i foned polis tonight and was asked had i contacted dvla? i said no and reply was contact dvla and report it, but isnt it a criminal offence to have no tax on the rd?

grampian police, queen st, aberdeen 0845 6005700, aka useless.

[roymondo]

Mike-C:
And what that means is that if its licencsed you need to display it. If its not licensed then this does not apply to you and you go back to section 29.
Blackstone’s Police Operational Handbook 2013 will confirm this too, as will Road Traffic Offences
By Winston Gordon, Philip Cuddy, Andy Wesson

And what this means in respect of an employee driving a truck with no disc in the circumstances the OP described is that he won’t get done. The Police and the Courts in some cases don’t know their arse from their elbow, so it pays to know this sort of stuff yourself.

Total tosh.

If the vehicle is not taxed, then both the employed driver and the owner/employer are using it without a valid licence and both commit an offence. If the vehicle is not actually driven, then the owner commits an offence.

If the vehicle really is taxed, but no disc is displayed while it is being driven, then again both the employed driver and the owner/employer commit an offence.

[mike-c]

Roymondo:

Mike-C:
And what that means is that if its licencsed you need to display it. If its not licensed then this does not apply to you and you go back to section 29.
Blackstone’s Police Operational Handbook 2013 will confirm this too, as will Road Traffic Offences
By Winston Gordon, Philip Cuddy, Andy Wesson

And what this means in respect of an employee driving a truck with no disc in the circumstances the OP described is that he won’t get done. The Police and the Courts in some cases don’t know their arse from their elbow, so it pays to know this sort of stuff yourself.

Total tosh.

If the vehicle is not taxed, then both the employed driver and the owner/employer are using it without a valid licence and both commit an offence. If the vehicle is not actually driven, then the owner commits an offence.

If the vehicle really is taxed, but no disc is displayed while it is being driven, then again both the employed driver and the owner/employer commit an offence.

Well the experts don’t see it like you.

[maestegboy]

Write it on the defect book,or in a diary .cover u r arse.