My current job is all domestic (3.5t van) but all work is recorded, driving as driving, break as break etc, this is for management as they and I believe a legal requirement (however I’m no longer sure this is true, as we don’t operate under an O license), but if I was to drive under EU rules in the same week then all the previous work (=<3.5t) I would record as other work on a printout/analogue/manual entry.
As for the weekly log book, technically it is acceptable to produce this, however in practise at the roadside with a jobsworth that doesn’t know his job…but thats a moot point if not required to keep records 
As Geebee said, I think the safest way is to record van driving/other work as ‘other work’ on a printout/chart/manual entry.
Ouh.
So in the nutshell; van driving is not driving, but is count as my driving?
Oh, that’s so simple…
Driving a van is classed as “other work” any one above who suggests that driving a berlingo or a sprinter van comes up domestic reg, is talking utter crap.
Domestic regs does not apply to vans in orys original question.
Infact im not even sure that any size vans comes under dometic regs.
Gurner:
Driving a van is classed as “other work” any one above who suggests that driving a berlingo or a sprinter van comes up domestic reg, is talking utter crap.
Domestic regs does not apply to vans in orys original question.
Infact im not even sure that any size vans comes under dometic regs.
I beg to differ, any vehicle =<3.5tonne, that is used for “carriage of goods by road” (ie not private driving) is “in scope of GB Domestic rules” that is undisputed.
The confusion arose with recording such work (my fault), if not under an operating license then no weekly record is required, but if mixing with EU rules in the same week then the van driving is to be recorded as other work via the tachos.
orys:
Ouh.
So in the nutshell; van driving is not driving, but is count as my driving?
Oh, that’s so simple…
It counts as work in the same way brushing a warehouse counts as work. If you get stopped just be sure to tell them everything you done. VOSA are responsible for 'policing ’ the WTD, although as it doesent attract any instant penalties (unless going to court) you can realistically expect to get away with abusing it. Its not on their priority list.
MADBAZ:
Gurner:
Driving a van is classed as “other work” any one above who suggests that driving a berlingo or a sprinter van comes up domestic reg, is talking utter crap.
Domestic regs does not apply to vans in orys original question.
Infact im not even sure that any size vans comes under dometic regs.
I beg to differ, any vehicle =<3.5tonne, that is used for “carriage of goods by road” (ie not private driving) is “in scope of GB Domestic rules” that is undisputed.
The confusion arose with recording such work (my fault), if not under an operating license then no weekly record is required, but if mixing with EU rules in the same week then the van driving is to be recorded as other work via the tachos.
Indeed. Certain unsavoury employers have been known to thrust van driving work on lorry drivers, who have already reached their allowed hours. Maybe some drivers do it willingly to turn an extra shilling or two but it is a dangerous practice. Tiredness strikes no matter what you are piloting on the road.
Indeed. Certain unsavoury employers have been known to thrust van driving work on lorry drivers, who have already reached their allowed hours. Maybe some drivers do it willingly to turn an extra shilling or two but it is a dangerous practice. Tiredness strikes no matter what you are piloting on the road.
But then, what is the difference in road safety if I will drive berlingo or, for example, my camper?
Or maybe if I drove over 56 hrs I am not allowed to go fishing with my camper for weekend, unless my girl will drive? 
And what about that: I came back from the Islands after 6 days week, then I jumped to my car and drove down to Crewe. I stayed there overnight and then I set off to Wrocław, with one small snooze near Berlin… That’s mean that I was driving about 75 hours that week…
I know, it’s not too smart but it was emergency. But from the other hand: we are used to drive for long period of time, unlike like some people, who work in the city centre office for example… So I still dare to tell, that It’s safer when we are driving our cars even for 14 hours then some of them driving for 8 hours - as we at least can feel, when it’s time to stop, as we know the signs of being tired.
ORYS - Having previously been in the military for quite a few years I have seen and experienced the effects of excessive tiredness. One minute you can feel fine, and the next you can’t remember where the previous couple of miles went. Sleep deprivation and tiredness play terrible tricks on the mind.
I once wrapped a vehicle around a tree due to fatigue. It was a massive tree as well but I just didn’t see it. I have also had the horrible experience of hallucinating due to sleep deprivation and believe me, in your mind at the time you are convinced that what isn’t there actually is and your sense of time also goes to pot.
I have seen the result of accidents in Germany when drivers in convoys have been pushed to the limits. I once saw a LandRover that belonged to a TA unit sliced in two above the door tops, after going under a lorry. The driver died by decapitation, as evidenced by the wreckage being awash with blood when I saw it. The tragic thing was, the drivers father was in the same unit and saw his son die.
Tiredness definitely kills. You are right that the driving laws create questions, but they are there to stop people killing themselves and other people. Most employers do not care if their drivers kill somebody or are killed themselves. They are only interested in getting the job done and earning money. The law tries to hold these dodgy employers in check.
macplaxton:
orys:
For example I was driving for 5 hours. So I have 4 hours of driving time left (as my max driving time is nine hours, forget one hour extra) or 7 hours of other work, as my maximum working time is 12 hours.
So let’s imagine, that I’ll be driving citroen berlingo or something like sprinter for six hours that day. As a result I was worked 11 hours (and of course a break to that) and I have only 5 hours class 2 driving in that but 11 hours of any driving…
So getting back to orys example:
In scope 5 hours driving. 45 break already taken. 8 hours shift remaining. (maximum normal shift 13 hours). Jump in the Berlingo and could do 8 hours “other work”. (13 hour shift and tacho 45 mins satisfy WTD?) 
The 8 hours ‘other work’ - would that need a 15 min break within the first 6 hours for WTD
ROG:
macplaxton:
orys:
For example I was driving for 5 hours. So I have 4 hours of driving time left (as my max driving time is nine hours, forget one hour extra) or 7 hours of other work, as my maximum working time is 12 hours.
So let’s imagine, that I’ll be driving citroen berlingo or something like sprinter for six hours that day. As a result I was worked 11 hours (and of course a break to that) and I have only 5 hours class 2 driving in that but 11 hours of any driving…
So getting back to orys example:
In scope 5 hours driving. 45 break already taken. 8 hours shift remaining. (maximum normal shift 13 hours). Jump in the Berlingo and could do 8 hours “other work”. (13 hour shift and tacho 45 mins satisfy WTD?)
The 8 hours ‘other work’ - would that need a 15 min break within the first 6 hours for WTD
I don’t think that at that point he’s work would come under the WTD for mobile workers.
However the Working Time Directive states that a worker doing more than a six hour stretch is entitled to a 20 minute break, I don’t have a copy of the WTD so am not sure weather or not this is compulsory but I believe it probably is.
The UK government have always added the word entitled because they’ve always tried to exclude British workers from the WTD break and rest rights.
If a worker is required to work for more than six hours at a stretch, he or she is entitled to a rest break of 20 minutes.
The break should be taken during the six-hour period and not at the beginning or end of it. The exact time the breaks are taken is up to the employer to decide.
Employers must make sure that workers can take their rest.
Ragnarok:
Tiredness definitely kills.
That’s absolutely true. I am pretty happy to have tacho rules as they are to keep me safe as well.
