extrucker:
For all those who don’t use the hard shoulder when it is open because someone may have broke down ahead of you, does that mean you drive along the A1, A19, A46 etc etc in lane 2 in case someone has broke down in lane 1■■
I was taught to read the road ahead !!
Post of the week… Well said.
The trouble is truckyboy, new lanes cost billions, you have to consider adding extra lanes over bridges below, knocking down a rebuilding narrow width bridges that can only take a certain amount of lanes, compulsory purchase on land, the list goes on. Take the “give peas a chance” bridge M25/M40, how much to widen it by another lane there? The HS is empty 90% of the time bar when truckers need a pee, sleep or tacho break.
Why not use that as a running lane at peak times, clear the traffic and keep people and the public ■■■■■ happy? As long as of course, people understand “HARD SHOULDER FOR EMERGENCY USE ONLY” and “CONGESTION USE HARD SHOULDER” which many can’t seem to fathom.
I must be one of the few who likes managed motorways, once the signal comes on to use it I’m in and tootle along at or below the speed limit posted. In times of congestion it can be the fastest running lane and as the undertaking rule is mute when lanes are moving at a reduced speed I will often make a lot of progress.
I have noticed some trucks don’t like this and weave over the lines when I’m tootling up the inside of them…but if they want to come in I always let them.
One downside is that mini bottle knecks are created later on when the hard shoulder turns into and exit only lane, plenty of warning for this so a merge in turn stance is taken, It would be nice if a ‘Merge in Turn’ message was added to the matrix signs though, ideally on the sign before the one saying the HS is for Junction so & so only.
One thing to watch out for is strap, ratchets, wood, ■■■■■ matter on the HS whilst progressing along it.
When these first started I usually had the lane all to myself but now everyone seems to have spotted my trick. If we could just stop the buggers using it when the lane is not active that would be great.
Dipper_Dave:
When these first started I usually had the lane all to myself but now everyone seems to have spotted my trick. If we could just stop the buggers using it when the lane is not active that would be great.
That ^^^ just about sums up how I feel about H/S running. I was going to ask anybody who refuses to use them on safety grounds how they possibly manage on D/C’s but I was beaten to it earlier.
Imo the Govt have attempted to create more capacity in the cheapest (relatively) manner possible, which I think is fair enough. We’d all like billiard table smooth 4/5/6 lane super highways with dedicated hard shoulders but the money for these has to come from somewhere, and I’m not sure we’d appreciate a tax increase to fund it.
hard shoulders were designed to break down on not drive on…i dont care how well manged they are i guess they rely on minimum wage people,bored,eating sarnies,texting etc(bit like todays steering wheel attendants)…human error can and will cause havoc when the 2 come together.
how many days go by without chaos in the 20 mile roadworks on the m1?..you cant always pick your spot to break down.
i use them now and then,with extra care,but i refuse to use the ones you keep having to get out of at every junction where no one will let you back into the live lane.
xamtex:
i use them now and then,with extra care,but i refuse to use the ones you keep having to get out of at every junction where no one will let you back into the live lane.
Good point but part of our skill set is to be able to judge traffic and merge into other lanes, yes it can be a pain if the gaps too small but I find indicating a little early 8 times out of 10 produces an opportunity. Picking the vehicle / gap to use helps and for the 2 times I find myself being obstructed a simple bit of intimidation usually works.
Always say thank you afterwards to diffuse the situation a bit if I have had to put some manners on another motorist.
Pick your battles wisely though as I usually deceide which motorist is going to let me in using the reflective things outside the windows (mirrors), course if push comes to shove I will back off and pick another target due the the paperwork hassle involved.
I wouldn’t advise sitting there with the indicators on though as people tend to think youve left them on and forgotten which makes things worse.
maga:
i think you all are misunderstanding. I AM overtaking constantly when in lane 1 as id rather that than sit at 50 in a lane where a car could be broken down and the HA haven’t put a red x up for whatever reason.i don’t think I’ve ever been undertaken so my lane discipline aint that bad
say a car breaks down in lane 1 but the matrix signs all say 60 because they haven’t been changed or whatever and you come up on the broken down vehicle at 56. not very safe is it and you’d probably come on here “nearly hit broken down car because matrix sign hadn’t closed the lane”
Thats exactly the same scenario just one lane across. When the HA manage to use the signs correctly 100% of the time ill happily “tank” down the HS. until then i’ll be overtaking in lane one.
126
Extract from Highway Code below, coming across a broken down vehicle should not cause a problem at any speed
Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear. You should
leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front so that you can pull up safely if it suddenly slows down or stops. The safe rule is never to get closer than the overall stopping distance (see Typical Stopping Distances diagram, shown below)
allow at least a two-second gap between you and the vehicle in front on roads carrying faster-moving traffic and in tunnels where visibility is reduced. The gap should be at least doubled on wet roads and increased still further on icy roads
remember, large vehicles and motorcycles need a greater distance to stop. If driving a large vehicle in a tunnel, you should allow a four-second gap between you and the vehicle in front.
Dipper_Dave:
One thing to watch out for is strap, ratchets, wood, ■■■■■ matter on the HS whilst progressing along it.
There are cameras every 100 metres or so and we often do drive through checks on each and every camera to ensure they are all functioning correctly. If debris is spotted either before opening or whilst in operation, it is closed.
098Joe:
maga:
i think you all are misunderstanding. I AM overtaking constantly when in lane 1 as id rather that than sit at 50 in a lane where a car could be broken down and the HA haven’t put a red x up for whatever reason.i don’t think I’ve ever been undertaken so my lane discipline aint that bad
say a car breaks down in lane 1 but the matrix signs all say 60 because they haven’t been changed or whatever and you come up on the broken down vehicle at 56. not very safe is it and you’d probably come on here “nearly hit broken down car because matrix sign hadn’t closed the lane”
Thats exactly the same scenario just one lane across. When the HA manage to use the signs correctly 100% of the time ill happily “tank” down the HS. until then i’ll be overtaking in lane one.
126
Extract from Highway Code below, coming across a broken down vehicle should not cause a problem at any speed
Stopping Distances. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear. You should
leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front so that you can pull up safely if it suddenly slows down or stops. The safe rule is never to get closer than the overall stopping distance (see Typical Stopping Distances diagram, shown below)
allow at least a two-second gap between you and the vehicle in front on roads carrying faster-moving traffic and in tunnels where visibility is reduced. The gap should be at least doubled on wet roads and increased still further on icy roads
remember, large vehicles and motorcycles need a greater distance to stop. If driving a large vehicle in a tunnel, you should allow a four-second gap between you and the vehicle in front.
meanwhile, in the real world.
when the hard shoulder is open due to congestion people are driving 12ft from each other. if you leave the 4 second gap someone jumps in it! you could repeat the same process of slowing down to leave the required gap and someone jumping in it all day long. 
Big jase, do you have a suggestion scheme at the ha? If do, could you suggest that rather than just saying ‘lane closed ahead’ or ‘obstruction ahead’, it actually says which lane, do those of us who think further ahead than 50’ can move over before the traffic buildup starts? I presume they must know which lane is affected from the cameras?
Thanks
Gary
scaniason:
Big jase, do you have a suggestion scheme at the ha? If do, could you suggest that rather than just saying ‘lane closed ahead’ or ‘obstruction ahead’, it actually says which lane, do those of us who think further ahead than 50’ can move over before the traffic buildup starts? I presume they must know which lane is affected from the cameras?Thanks
Gary
There is a type of suggestion scheme but it takes sooooooo long, it’s barely worth us doing unless it’s safety critical. Other similar issues are if we have debris in lane 3 and set signs to reflect lane 3 is closed and someone hits said debris into lane 2 (often happens) then we’d be wrong. Some times if debris is reported, some Rcc ops set “incident” when it should he more specific. If it’s debris, we want you to slow and keep your eyes peeled but incident could reflect something going on on the shoulder. It’s probably better you ring HAIL and put it forward as a suggestion.
scaniason:
Big jase, do you have a suggestion scheme at the ha? If do, could you suggest that rather than just saying ‘lane closed ahead’ or ‘obstruction ahead’, it actually says which lane, do those of us who think further ahead than 50’ can move over before the traffic buildup starts? I presume they must know which lane is affected from the cameras?Thanks
Gary
I’ve often thought the same but the practicalities and legalities would prevent this.
Imagine if there was a warning debris was in lane 1 so you move to lane 2.
Meanwhile one of TNUK’s finest who survives on 3 hours sleep at night and knows better than Highways because he begrudgingly did his DCPC keeps in lane 1 and clips the debris sending it into lane 2. You drive along happily in lane 2 and then seriously damage your vehicle. You would then be having a moan and seeking compensation because you were misinformed.
Good points raised there, I can see about the debris, maybe if it could be done for broken down vehicles / actual closures / old boys stopping for a wee etc!
Having said that, I find the new overhead signs a huge improvement on the old setup, where you had no idea until you came to a grinding halt. Also, I know they’ve taken a hammering in here in the past, but I also like the distance / time readings that you get on s lot of the trunk routes now.
It’s a good idea to say lane 1 closed ahead however the wickets would normally show the lane anyway. Plus if we get an lgv broken down in lane 2, we have 2 choices, close 1 and 2 and force everyone into 3 (as we can’t create an island) or close 3 and 2 forcing eveyone into 1. Now, considerations, lane 3 isn’t always the same width as 1 and 2 causing trucks issues so closing 3 and 2 is better which also allows us to run the HS possibly too so 2 lanes. Downside that Police, Ambo Fire etc may need to pass and get held up and once we go with a wrecker etc, they start off in lane 2 and struggle to get across and also when we take off our closure, we are stuck in lane 3 with no buffer.
The travel time signs isn’t just bout saying to this junction is ■■■ to help with your arrival time, it’s also about saying there is a delay ahead. When they work well and there is a delay, they can say distance to ■■■ 10 miles, 30 minutes, now 10 miles at 56 is just over 10 mins so letting you know expect a queue.
Big Jase:
Dipper_Dave:
One thing to watch out for is strap, ratchets, wood, ■■■■■ matter on the HS whilst progressing along it.There are cameras every 100 metres or so and we often do drive through checks on each and every camera to ensure they are all functioning correctly. If debris is spotted either before opening or whilst in operation, it is closed.
Thanks Big Jase, although I did have to do a little shimy to avoid a ratchet the other day its nice to know these things are being watched for.
For the suggestion box as I like to keep a low profile and not take credit for my global changing ideas could we have it suggested that a ‘Please Merge in Turn’ message is used on the sign before the one that announces HS for next Junction only.
Not a big deal but will make a world of difference when taffic is heavy and the word ‘Please’ makes everone happy and stuff.
Sorry I can’t ring HAIL as I’m mute but if you could act as our spokesman and put forward the occasional and rare 
good idea (see infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters logic) that would be great.
“Debris in lane 1” wouldn’t work as pointed out above.
“Stranded Vehicle in Lane 1” would, especially in roadwork sections where the matrix signs are conveniently turned off to cause even more traffic.
going between luton and toddington on the m1 northbound yesterday afternoon on the managed hard shoulder section(the hardshoulder/lane 1 wasnt open to traffic), a battered old audi A4 (british registered)comes alongside me tooting and swerving etc with two iffy looking blokes in the front and three women in the back.
obviously trying to get me to stop but something didnt seem quite right and i wasnt bloody stopping on that hard shoulder even if it was closed to traffic.
this went on for a while,he kept pulling infont and hitting his brakes,gesticulating at me to stop so i thought there might be a problem with the lorry.i got on the hard shoulder with the intention of stopping in one of the refuge laybys,but this ■■■■■■■ idiot pulled in front again and stopped.hard shoulder or not its not a nice place to be…
all five people in the car got out,they wernt english speakers-surprise surprise,from what i could gather they were trying to say i’d chipped his windscreen when a stone flicked up from my wheels!!! ■■■■■■■ chancers.
there was no way i was getting out the cab there-and made it plain(or tried to) i’d stop at the next junction.then they came past me again with three of them filming me on their mobiles and carried on off into the distance…
my point is that being stationary on that section of managed motorway felt much more dangerous than being stopped on a normal hard shoulder.and you dont see plod or hato along that part very much.felt like an accident waiting to happen even though only there for a minute or so.
They have had shoulder driving in some parts of Massachusettes since I have been driving here, the result is quite often chaos, major accidents have been known to happen at exits when some idiot on the shoulder refuses to let a truck leave the highway, trucks are not permitted on the shoulder, only cars, so the squeeze cause a crash.
At the top of this page it says that this is “The UK Professional Drivers Forum.” I read some of the posts in this thread and despair.
