Driving Agencies

JWPP:
Good Afternoon All

We are currently in the process of creating a Driving Division for our recruitment company, I understand what Clients would like from a Driving Agency from being on “that side of the desk” I was wondering, from a Drivers point of view, what would you like to see agencies doing differently? All comments welcome (I understand agencies don’t have the best reputations)

Cheers.

imo best thing would be if shister agencies shut down and stopped the scheming that goes on ripping hard working folk off for theyre work simples

degsy4wheels:
Copied from a previous post to which i replied

Postby degsy4wheels » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:07 pm
How about starting with a bit of respect for drivers. Treat em like you wish to be treated. Signing them up telling them there’s loads of work, then leaving them sat at home with no work and constantly lying is a major problem with Agencies.
We are not money making machines for you, be honest, and if you have no work, say “sorry, i can’t sign you up as there is no work going at the moment”…Instead of “O yes, just sign there mate, [zb] loads of work for you” while your nose grows longer and your bank balance gets bigger.
So thats the first thing as far as i am concerned, others may well not agree.
Minimum wage of a tenner an hour for artics at least. £8.50 p/h for artics is an insult to drivers. If you throw in a bonus scheme, make it achievable and actually pay it, instead of coming up with some crap for not paying it.
STOP ripping drivers off, umbrella schemes are just a money making machine for you, STOP IT.
So basically, as far as i am concerned, proper wages, honesty, and respect are the 3 big things i would expect from you, but i can live in hope.

i agree totally +1

degsy4wheels:
Copied from a previous post to which i replied

Postby degsy4wheels » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:07 pm
How about starting with a bit of respect for drivers. Treat em like you wish to be treated. Signing them up telling them there’s loads of work, then leaving them sat at home with no work and constantly lying is a major problem with Agencies.
We are not money making machines for you, be honest, and if you have no work, say “sorry, i can’t sign you up as there is no work going at the moment”…Instead of “O yes, just sign there mate, [zb] loads of work for you” while your nose grows longer and your bank balance gets bigger.
So thats the first thing as far as i am concerned, others may well not agree.
Minimum wage of a tenner an hour for artics at least. £8.50 p/h for artics is an insult to drivers. If you throw in a bonus scheme, make it achievable and actually pay it, instead of coming up with some crap for not paying it.
STOP ripping drivers off, umbrella schemes are just a money making machine for you, STOP IT.
So basically, as far as i am concerned, proper wages, honesty, and respect are the 3 big things i would expect from you, but i can live in hope.

I am a agency driver for 3 agencies and don’t understand some of what you say, true they should not lie to drivers but if they don’t sign drivers up and work comes in what do they do the way I look at it is if I wanted to work full time I won’t go to an agency but if we don’t work they don’t earn because they only get a percentage of our pay.
I will not work for less than £10 per hour PAYE but others will and that is up to them but I don’t no how an agency will pay more if the firm you work for won’t pay.
Umbrella schemes could not agree more but once again they are there because drivers sign up to them if they all walked away the agencies would have to change, we are in charge not them without us they earn nowt but not many drivers can see this.

I went into a local drivers agency yesterday looking for relief drivers for straw delivery’s with an artic straight down the A303 to various farms just around Exeter, the bloke in charge said he had nobody he would want to send out to do it :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: . £12.50 hr he said they charged which seemed reasonable.

I had an agency ring me yesterday offering me class 2 on Royal Mail nights. £11.50 per hour and would I be interested? As I’m looking for a few weeks casual…I said yes. “I’ll call you back” he says. 2 hrs later he did call back. “'Oh, that Royal Mail job got cancelled…But I have something for a week…Loads of handball for Bookers for £8 per hour!”
No thanks…Bye. Lying [zb]s just want to get you hooked.

midlifetrucker:
You need to employ some ex drivers to start with on your admin team. Get an old truck. Assess you drivers first. Then sort the good ones. Pay the best more and keep them. You win contracts. You keep reliable happy drivers. Your customer is happy. You then just have to invoice instead of sorting headaches.

You need to give less experienced a chance with easier jobs that they can gain experience on for less money. They can then move up the experience ladder with you.

Stop looking about how much you can cream off and start a professional service that firms can rely on. Simple.

Of course you won’t. You’ll employ foreign and desperate drivers and pay a pittance. You’ll charge client a fortune and you’ll get an Audi RS.

Have loads of headaches. Staff who hate you and will ditch you at a moments notice. No continuity. Low customer satisfaction but you’ll make a buck or two for a couple of years.

Here endeth the first lesson

JWPP:

mac12:
Why do you think agencies don’t have the best reputations?

THE BAPTISM CONTINUETH - INSHALLAH

Quite frankly because of cowboy’s, inflating pay rates on adverts, placing false ads etc… As with any Industry you are always going to have your rotten few who are just out to make a quick buck, sod the rest and get out before they are found out, When you are dealing with peoples wages, livelihoods, careers, however you like to put it, any discrepancies are going to be shouted from the roof tops (and rightly so) it’s just a shame that these cowboys tarnish the reputation of the rest of us trying to do a decent legitimate job.

JWPP- They are right- you need to make sure that which you are selling works! Then you are in danger of doing a good unique/good thing. Then you can sell the business and once again into the shi**er your industry remains!

(1) If there were fewer agencies, they wouldn’t be cutting each other’s throats on rates, and expecting the drivers to limbo that low just to pick up odd shifts here and there.

(2) Pretending that one agency is any different from another needs deeds straight out of the gate and not words. Treating the driver as a “valuable asset” rather than “an expendable one” is a good start.

(3) To facillitate (1), don’t start an agency in an area thats flooded with them already, unless you’re offering MUCH higher rates. Not likely, so let’s move onto facillitating (2) which requires a new agency to do the things well that others don’t do at all. Such as “Automatic PAYE without quibble” and “Minimum rates of £■■” rather than saying £8-£15ph when you know damned well the £15 is only achievable on bank holiday overtime on the 29th february, and similar blue moon occasions.

The DRIVER is the customer first rather than the client. Drivers getting work off you will be back for more. That’s the bread and butter of agency business. Clients getting work done by you will be looking for someone else to do it cheaper, if they don’t care about quality, or will be looking to recruit as full timers those premium drivers that might come their way. What affordable T&Cs does your agency have in position with regards to retention, work-off contracts, etc.?

(4) Pay holiday pay, rather than deducting it from wages. Pay stamp, rather than expecting drivers to pay yours as well as theirs! :open_mouth:
(5) Don’t force drivers onto Umbrella fiddles, just because you make more commissions from that firm of accountants like De Poel rather than the honest graft of the in house crew you’ve built up.
(6) Pay promptly.
(7) Offset all fair expenses, without charging accountant fees.
(8) Don’t continually pester drivers for doing certain work when they’ve already expressed a preference for certain shifts, times of start, yards they like, etc.
If you constantly give the job on driver A’s doorstep to driver B who lives 20 miles away, then driver A is likely to up sticks, and move on in short order.
Drivers do talk among themselves, and there’s often some geriatric shooting their mouth off about “getting all the cushy jobs” because he’s allergic to certain types of graft, such as “any”. :exclamation: :smiley: The “Availability” paradigm includes, or should include, a driver’s proximity to the job, and their keeness to do that particular job.

(9) Have an easy-to-follow pay structure that has a fairly narrow range, thus drivers can be assured of some minimum rate regardless of the time of day, type of job, or type of vehicle being driven.

(10) Above all, Don’t lie to your drivers - especially nowdays, when more drivers are wise to being bulled around by the vast majority of agencies out there, especially the ones who don’t specialise in drivers. To an “all rounder” firm, a driver is likely to just become more minimum wage fodder that needs to be pushed back in that direction at the first opportunity. :angry:

JWPP:
Good Afternoon All

We are currently in the process of creating a Driving Division for our recruitment company, I understand what Clients would like from a Driving Agency from being on “that side of the desk” I was wondering, from a Drivers point of view, what would you like to see agencies doing differently? All comments welcome (I understand agencies don’t have the best reputations)

Cheers.

There’s a real shortage of agencies you know, just like there’s a shortage of drivers.

That’s why we need more agencies, to find the drivers that the country is so short of that some agencies are willing to pay in excess of eight pounds per hour when they finally manage to locate one of these unicorn-like creatures. Imagine that, thirty drops around a few town centres, handballing a few tons of whatever whilst dodging aggressive drunks and traffic wardens for around eighty quid a day.

The warm glow of knowing one is keeping some spiv in pointy shoes and cheap suits would more than make up for the crap pay and even worse conditions, though.

May I refer you to my agency waffle handbook, you may already have a copy but here goes:

1, You have been cancelled - We found someone cheaper to do the job.
2, They’ve asked for you by name - We can’t get anybody else to do the job so are blowing smoke up your arse to get you to do it.
3, They’ve pencilled you in for all next week - We’ve not got anything for you but want to make sure you don’t work for anybody else, a phone call on Monday normally results with see number 1.
4, We can’t pay you because you never sent in your signed time sheet - We want to hold on to your money as long as possible even though the law states that we must pay you regardless of presenting a timesheet or not.
5, Its a bit quiet - We’ve been too busy eating donuts all day to bother finding any work.
6, How’s my number one driver? - Designed to blow smoke up your already patronised arse.
7, How’s my star driver? - See number 6.
8, We’ll sort out the shortfall on your wage next week - Damned you for noticing us trying to fleece you again, hopeful you’ll forget by next week.
9, She’s out of the office at the moment, can I get her to call you back? - She’s sat waving her arms in the air shaking her head because she does not want to take your call.
10, We’re just doing our ring rounds to see who is available for work - we are trying to find out where all the work is, if you tell them you are booked already the next question is " oh yeah…where?" so that they can visit the same firm and undercut your agency.
11, Keep your phone switched on mate, we’re due some work in - See number 6.
12, Can you help us out, we’ve been let down by another driver, could you get there as soon as you can? - This bloke keeps blobbing on us but he’s cheaper than you so we keep using him in the hope he will turn up.
13, Are you working tonight? - We’re sniffing to see where the work is and hoping that because you’re such a gobby git you wont be able to hold your P**** and you will reveal everything.
14, Do you fancy a week of days next week? - We haven’t really got any work for you but we need a new way to sniff to see where the work is and thought if we asked this way then it would fool you.
15, I’m just waiting on them getting back to me with a booking for tonight mate, stand by your phone - You will be a skeleton by the time your phone rings, I’m just trying to make sure I’ve got some muppet waiting for me to call if a company rings us.
16, They said they don’t want you anymore - Because you wouldn’t run bent they don’t like it so we’re sending them someone who will.
17, We’re not like all the other agencies - We really are and you should re read number 6.
18, I’ve got a night trunk for you - When you get there you’ll be shunting.
More will come to me soon, to be updated.

Now as you may well have gathered by now, agencies do not have a very good name and just so you are not mislead here we are not talking about just a few rotten apples, we are talking ALL agencies, without doubt and without question. I guarantee yours will go down the same road because when you have the customer dictating rates to agencies then things can only go in one direction.

What we need are agencies that actually really do offer a service, a service with bloody good drivers that know what they are doing and are paid accordingly. Drivers that are well looked after will not want to take a full time job with your clients and will politely decline if approached hence keeping you with the top blokes helping to make you look good.
Stay away from the price wars because that is what is ruining this game, if a company tells you what they will pay then tell them what you charge and walk away. Don’t undercut simply to close another agency out because you will struggle to find the right calibre of driver to make you look good and enable you to win the work.

I could go on forever but really can’t be bothgered telling those who should know what they are doing how to do their job. If you can’t see what is wrong with the industry then maybe you shouldn’t be in it.

i did a job for an agency last week it was my first time with them only my 4th day i worked all weekend and come monday morning the manager at the company i worked for refused to sign my time sheet i went to tell him that without it signed i would not get paid.he found that amusing so we had a disagreement lots of shouting and shoving went on the next thing i know is come wednesday i get the payslip by email only to find they have reduced my pay to the minimum wage without telling me costing me £193.00 for the 2 days i did at the company i can’t find anything in the Ts and Cs which gives them the rite to deduct the money but am not sure what to do about it anyone have any idea where i stand in relation to these deductions

mikewolf:
i did a job for an agency last week it was my first time with them only my 4th day i worked all weekend and come monday morning the manager at the company i worked for refused to sign my time sheet i went to tell him that without it signed i would not get paid.he found that amusing so we had a disagreement lots of shouting and shoving went on the next thing i know is come wednesday i get the payslip by email only to find they have reduced my pay to the minimum wage without telling me costing me £193.00 for the 2 days i did at the company i can’t find anything in the Ts and Cs which gives them the rite to deduct the money but am not sure what to do about it anyone have any idea where i stand in relation to these deductions

If they won’t sign your time sheet, getting in an argument and shoving match with a client isn’t the best way to go about it.
I assume you used a tacho for the hours you worked? Copies of these should be attached to the time sheet and make a note they refused to sign.
Some companies don’t sign agency sheets - Royal Mail use their own sheets they send to the agency.
With regard your hourly rate, what was agreed with the agency before you went on placement? What does you T’s & C’s with the agency say?
It sounds like you’ve just been inducted into the world of agency.

mikewolf:
i did a job for an agency last week it was my first time with them only my 4th day i worked all weekend and come monday morning the manager at the company i worked for refused to sign my time sheet i went to tell him that without it signed i would not get paid.he found that amusing so we had a disagreement lots of shouting and shoving went on the next thing i know is come wednesday i get the payslip by email only to find they have reduced my pay to the minimum wage without telling me costing me £193.00 for the 2 days i did at the company i can’t find anything in the Ts and Cs which gives them the rite to deduct the money but am not sure what to do about it anyone have any idea where i stand in relation to these deductions

Jesus H Christ…

I don’t want to misadvise you so I’ll do my best to find out specifically where you stand with this, might be better via PM too so I’ll drop you a line.

Typical case of a ■■■■ consultant that can’t deal with his/her clients efficiently, although I will say you didn’t do yourself a favour by getting into a mess with the Transport Manager. Had you explained to the consultant the situation and given them your hours / sent the timesheet unsigned, I guarantee they would have obtained a signature their end. In the same way you require a timesheet to be signed to get paid, the agency require a signature to charge (without going through complications of court and suchlike!). Lesson learnt for future but I’ll do my best to advise on your current situation in due course.

What you do in situations like that is get their name and then put their name on the time sheet and fake a signature. When you fax/email the scan to the agency they’ll assume everything is in order and pay you as normal and by the time the invoice is queried the money is hopefully already in your account and no longer your problem. :smiley: Chances are that the bird in accounts at the client won’t even be aware of the argument and just process the agency invoice as normal.

As for altering your pay rate well I’m afraid you’ve only got yourself to blame there for not getting the rates in writing either in hard copy or electronic copy before commencing work for them. Got to be one of the oldest tricks in the book that one.

mikewolf:
i did a job for an agency last week it was my first time with them only my 4th day i worked all weekend and come monday morning the manager at the company i worked for refused to sign my time sheet i went to tell him that without it signed i would not get paid.he found that amusing so we had a disagreement lots of shouting and shoving went on the next thing i know is come wednesday i get the payslip by email only to find they have reduced my pay to the minimum wage without telling me costing me £193.00 for the 2 days i did at the company i can’t find anything in the Ts and Cs which gives them the rite to deduct the money but am not sure what to do about it anyone have any idea where i stand in relation to these deductions

  • What reason did the manager give for not signing the time sheet ?
  • You say there was a lot of shouting and shoving, who started that and who started the shoving ?
  • Presumably you’ve phoned the agency about the rate you’ve been paid so what reason did they give ?

Sorry about the questions but I’m guessing that we’re only getting part of the story here.

FreddieSwan:
Typical case of a [zb] consultant that can’t deal with his/her clients efficiently

How can you say that based on the information given :confused:

As much as I dislike the agency system, this driver could have been entirely responsible for what happened and could have cost the agency a valuable customer for all you know.

I’m not saying it’s OK to reduce an agreed rate of pay, but I would like to know the reasons given for that action.

mikewolf:
i did a job for an agency last week it was my first time with them only my 4th day i worked all weekend and come monday morning the manager at the company i worked for refused to sign my time sheet i went to tell him that without it signed i would not get paid.he found that amusing so we had a disagreement lots of shouting and shoving went on the next thing i know is come wednesday i get the payslip by email only to find they have reduced my pay to the minimum wage without telling me costing me £193.00 for the 2 days i did at the company i can’t find anything in the Ts and Cs which gives them the rite to deduct the money but am not sure what to do about it anyone have any idea where i stand in relation to these deductions

Go the police, and hand yourself in for driving vehicle xxxx ■■■ without insurance, permission, or liability cover. That way they’ll see to it straight away, and approach the company you’ve apparently been driving their named tractor (on your digicard!) for without their permission.
Chances are the company will admit they’ve actually employed you for the day, since a day’s pay to you is a lot cheaper than them losing their O licence, and being busted in due course.

Problem solved! :smiley:

Sometimes the only way to fix something is to completely break it first.

tachograph:

FreddieSwan:
Typical case of a [zb] consultant that can’t deal with his/her clients efficiently

How can you say that based on the information given :confused:

As much as I dislike the agency system, this driver could have been entirely responsible for what happened and could have cost the agency a valuable customer for all you know.

I’m not saying it’s OK to reduce an agreed rate of pay, but I would like to know the reasons given for that action.

Perhaps a broad judgement to make but having seen it from this side of the desk far too often, it wouldn’t surprise me. Regardless of circumstance, the consultant has handled the situation badly if the driver has received minimum wage and had no explanation before he’s been paid.

A more accurate description would’ve been “Typical case of a consultant completely mishandling a situation in one way or another”; with my limited information I think that’s still glaringly obvious, else I don’t think Mikewolf would be posting here. I already expressed that he (Mikewolf) also acted well out of line (even if the TM started the shouting / shoving, you can remove yourself from the situation) and genuinely hope he’s learnt from it.

Essentially a single driver would have to go some length to cost the agency a valuable customer, on the basis those deemed valuable are the ones you have developed a professional relationship with.

Wholeheartedly agree that there are more angles to be considered (albeit one sided because there aren’t many people that would be entirely objective), but from the information that has been provided; it’s clear both sides of the coin are somewhat tarnished. You’ll be establishing which one is more so than the other.

By law the agency have to pay you, regardless of presenting a time sheet be it signed or not. They are allowed reasonable time to ascertain that the hours have actually been worked be it by someone else witnessing you were there or by proof of tacho.
I would say reasonable time would be 3 days.

ALWAYS get the agency to tell you the rate of pay you will be getting for the assignment, BEFORE you set off to do the job, be it by text or email.

Rob K:
What you do in situations like that is get their name and then put their name on the time sheet and fake a signature. When you fax/email the scan to the agency they’ll assume everything is in order and pay you as normal and by the time the invoice is queried the money is hopefully already in your account and no longer your problem. :smiley: Chances are that the bird in accounts at the client won’t even be aware of the argument and just process the agency invoice as normal.

As for altering your pay rate well I’m afraid you’ve only got yourself to blame there for not getting the rates in writing either in hard copy or electronic copy before commencing work for them. Got to be one of the oldest tricks in the book that one.

This is standard fare…get one of the loaders/yardies to sign it for you or some sales guy/ambitious wannabe manager. The “bird at payroll” is merely a faceless name- the trick is to get the job done and leave the building ASAP with the thought that you will get paid for that signature-INSHALLAH

Don’t employ ■■■■■■■■■ that call you mate at Christmas and won’t answer the phone or talk to you in January. Realise office bods are 2 a penny and idiots to answer the phones are 2 a penny. Understand no means no and if someone signs up with you and then you don’t work them for 2 years don’t get all humpy when 2 years later when you ring them at 2am because you’re desperate when told to “F**k off”. Personally I think agency are back stabbing scum and earn money off other people hard work and if they all were forced to shut companies would be forced to give people full time jobs.

As you can tell I hope you fall on your arse as people that have randomly decide to start a driving division rather than driving agencies are the worst type of agency because when the stress gets to much they take it out on the drivers but deadicated driving agencies hand all the work to Johnney foreigner who’ll work for 4.50 an hour and leave you at home.

In summary if you want to know why this countries screwed and everyone’s skint look no further than a driving agency pushing up the price of road transport.

Winseer:

mikewolf:
i did a job for an agency last week it was my first time with them only my 4th day i worked all weekend and come monday morning the manager at the company i worked for refused to sign my time sheet i went to tell him that without it signed i would not get paid.he found that amusing so we had a disagreement lots of shouting and shoving went on the next thing i know is come wednesday i get the payslip by email only to find they have reduced my pay to the minimum wage without telling me costing me £193.00 for the 2 days i did at the company i can’t find anything in the Ts and Cs which gives them the rite to deduct the money but am not sure what to do about it anyone have any idea where i stand in relation to these deductions

Go the police, and hand yourself in for driving vehicle xxxx ■■■ without insurance, permission, or liability cover. That way they’ll see to it straight away, and approach the company you’ve apparently been driving their named tractor (on your digicard!) for without their permission.
Chances are the company will admit they’ve actually employed you for the day, since a day’s pay to you is a lot cheaper than them losing their O licence, and being busted in due course.

Problem solved! :smiley:

Sometimes the only way to fix something is to completely break it first.

Brilliant