Well as a retired Haulage man Now 85 years old, Why should they expect Proffesional under paid very high skilled Drivers to work extra hours to try and solve the problem, When there is a problem getting an appointment to see ones Dr. Where I reside they appear to work from 9 till 5 and then go home I cant even have a face to face visit, One has to discuss ones ailments over the phone, How can they do this do they have a crystal ball I wonder 
o,r are they taking advantage of Covid and getting paid for doing sweet F all, Well this is my opinion , HGV Drivers should be paid top line money,The country would come to a standstill if they parked their motors up and said stuff you, Regards Larry
windrush:
When I drove for Tilcon we did get time and a half for anything over 40 hours plus time and a half for Saturdays , however they were carting their own product so could afford that sort of money. When I later drove for a small haulier on tipper work he got nothing extra on the rate for saturday working as the rates were just the same so obviously couldn’t pay me extra either, however sunday and night work was paid at rate and a half (Tarmac reduced it from rate and threequarters that Tilcon had paid) so I did get extra for that. At first I wasn’t paid for Bank Holidays: “the truck isn’t working so it isn’t earning anything” was the answer, but I did negotiate a flat day rate after a while.
Pete.
But aren’t Bank Holidays statutory holidays that must, by law, be paid? Or have I got that quite wrong?
People are voting with their feet. The bosses are promising customers the earth without having a clue how to achieve it. The drivers are at the bottom of the line and will do as they are told. Its gone on for years but now they cant get drivers because the shifts are ridiculous. No consideration to the driver. We all know that in the old days a driver started at the bottom and learnt the trade , that doesn’t happen anymore. Having said that an excellent chemical company in bradford were advertising for a trainee to learn the whole aspect of the job from warehousing fork truck driving ADR class 2 then class 1. Its a point in the right direction .
Certainly those who have been underpaying and abusing their drivers for years are reaping what they’ve sown.
In some ways suddenly realising the drivers who have been doing their best for years for poor pay and disrespected openly by everyone from the school leaver currently instructing them upwards are actually human beings worthy of respect then giving them large rises which 5 minutes ago couldn’t possibly be afforded (there’s the door if you don’t like it plenty of Poles want the job, nothing against the Poles they were only bettering themselves like anyone would), might be met with a certain derision and cynicism by said drivers.
The industry’s logistics.com operators are going to bear much of the brunt of this, good, couldn’e happen to a more deserving bunch.
Many smaller operators tried to do the best they could, OK they couldn’t pay money they didn’t have but at least the more enlightened ones realised that good drivers were a valuable asset and many tried their best to make their staff feel valued and respected, if your pay is going to be at a certain level then any driver worthy of the name is going to work where they are at least appreciated and valued and allowed to take a pride in their work.
Anybody’s guess what’s going to happen over the next few years, if the logistics mobs who have been so instrumental in the demoralising and devaluing of drivers get a bloody nose i doubt we’ll be sobbing in our soup over them.
Have to say I agree with everything that’s been said on here, it’s just a shame that those who make the decisions couldn’t read this and try to get things right but we all know it won’t happen, all they’ll do is go into Eastern Europe and bring a load of foreign drivers in and think they’ve sorted it.
I have a wage slip from ‘back in the day’ (55 years ago), Gross Pay…£18 1s 10p. driving fuel tankers 40hr week.
All my driving working life I got 100% job satisfaction, I loved the job, we had good conditions, decent pay, and good company relations (never 1 day ‘industrial action’)
Then, around 1985 ish it all started to go ■■■■ up, I/we were all made redundant so we move on to various companies.
The happy days were finished.
Now ? with the road haulage business in the state it’s in is it any wonder that there is a driver shortage, the wages are crap, the conditions are crap, drivers snowed under with rules and regulations, traffic gridlocked, bloody mobile phones ringing non stop (“why aren’t you tipped”)
It’s a grim picture, I’m glad I’m retired, would I go back ? there’s never going to be a return to the happy days so the answer is an emphatic NO.
Grumpy its not all bad out there, i’m fortunate enough to be on own account and everything you note about the better days still generally applies.
Wages v good
conditions ditto
rules and regs don’t bother us really because we arn’t pushed to the last minute nor expected to race around like our arse is alight
mobile might ring once a month, usually if something has changed
traffic levels again don’t matter because not rushing about, job takes as long as it takes, despite being salaried
respected and appreciated with some gentle ■■■■ taking between drivers and admin/middle managers just like it was back in the day, long may it continue
yes i appreciate this is unusual, but from a sensible driver’s point of view those of us with our heads threaded correctly do the job with care and unfashionable pride to the best of our ability because we don’t want this job to end
if the supermarkets fuel suppliers etc had kept their own transport operations and offered the excellent terms they used to i’m quite certain they’d still be cherry picking from a never ending stream of good drivers fighting each other to get on board
greed and short termism has brought us to the end of the race to the bottom, hopefully that’s now over at least for the time being
Dipster:
windrush:
When I drove for Tilcon we did get time and a half for anything over 40 hours plus time and a half for Saturdays , however they were carting their own product so could afford that sort of money. When I later drove for a small haulier on tipper work he got nothing extra on the rate for saturday working as the rates were just the same so obviously couldn’t pay me extra either, however sunday and night work was paid at rate and a half (Tarmac reduced it from rate and threequarters that Tilcon had paidPete.
But aren’t Bank Holidays statutory holidays that must, by law, be paid? Or have I got that quite wrong?
I believe so, however I was their first non family member employee so they were not aware of that until I informed them. It all worked out well in the end, but the point I’m making is that the rates laid down by the quarry companies AFTER THEY SOLD OFF THEIR OWN TRANSPORT FLEETS was cut to the bone so hauliers couldn’t afford to pay the same money that the quarry companies drivers had been on.
Pete.
Juddian:
Grumpy its not all bad out there, i’m fortunate enough to be on own account and everything you note about the better days still generally applies.Wages v good
conditions ditto
rules and regs don’t bother us really because we arn’t pushed to the last minute nor expected to race around like our arse is alight
mobile might ring once a month, usually if something has changed
traffic levels again don’t matter because not rushing about, job takes as long as it takes, despite being salaried
respected and appreciated with some gentle ■■■■ taking between drivers and admin/middle managers just like it was back in the day, long may it continueyes i appreciate this is unusual, but from a sensible driver’s point of view those of us with our heads threaded correctly do the job with care and unfashionable pride to the best of our ability because we don’t want this job to end
if the supermarkets fuel suppliers etc had kept their own transport operations and offered the excellent terms they used to i’m quite certain they’d still be cherry picking from a never ending stream of good drivers fighting each other to get on board
greed and short termism has brought us to the end of the race to the bottom, hopefully that’s now over at least for the time being
That’s refreshing to read Juddian , that there are still companies out there doing it right. I think the point here though is the companies who have caused the problem are the ones who shout loudest now they have had their fingers burnt .I know a company that has drivers doing a 3 hour induction when they start for them signing the dos and donts and the priceless dont leave the yard with any defects whatsoever only to find once working for them defects become secondary. One comment stating its in for inspection or mot soon we will do it then . If you get pulled its your fault you signed the induction
ramone:
Juddian:
Grumpy its not all bad out there, i’m fortunate enough to be on own account and everything you note about the better days still generally applies.Wages v good
conditions ditto
rules and regs don’t bother us really because we arn’t pushed to the last minute nor expected to race around like our arse is alight
mobile might ring once a month, usually if something has changed
traffic levels again don’t matter because not rushing about, job takes as long as it takes, despite being salaried
respected and appreciated with some gentle ■■■■ taking between drivers and admin/middle managers just like it was back in the day, long may it continueyes i appreciate this is unusual, but from a sensible driver’s point of view those of us with our heads threaded correctly do the job with care and unfashionable pride to the best of our ability because we don’t want this job to end
if the supermarkets fuel suppliers etc had kept their own transport operations and offered the excellent terms they used to i’m quite certain they’d still be cherry picking from a never ending stream of good drivers fighting each other to get on board
greed and short termism has brought us to the end of the race to the bottom, hopefully that’s now over at least for the time beingThat’s refreshing to read Juddian , that there are still companies out there doing it right. I think the point here though is the companies who have caused the problem are the ones who shout loudest now they have had their fingers burnt .I know a company that has drivers doing a 3 hour induction when they start for them signing the dos and donts and the priceless dont leave the yard with any defects whatsoever only to find once working for them defects become secondary. One comment stating its in for inspection or mot soon we will do it then . If you get pulled its your fault you signed the induction
But if the driver leaves the yard with a known fault, particularly if that fault leads to an incident of some kind, the driver will not only be responsible for that but also for having ignored his instructions that the company imposed and to which he agreed to comply with by signing, thus contractually.
So if companies are having so much trouble finding employees would they really sack the driver for digging his/her heels in if the fault is really not something that can safely be ignored? Would companies really put themselves at risk of having a vehicle off the road while they find a replacement driver? Would they want to go to all the trouble of finding that replacement?
But I suggest that any driver in these situations should keep an accurate record of reported faults on any vehicle, including names and times, dates etc., with details of any action or inaction that resulted. That could be most useful if an incident should occur.
This thread has a common theme in many posts of not feeling respected by many (most?) employers. That respect must be earned and sticking up for yourself when you are sure you are in the right is a great first step. It worked for me during my working life.
ramone:
Juddian:
Grumpy its not all bad out there, i’m fortunate enough to be on own account and everything you note about the better days still generally applies.Wages v good
conditions ditto
rules and regs don’t bother us really because we arn’t pushed to the last minute nor expected to race around like our arse is alight
mobile might ring once a month, usually if something has changed
traffic levels again don’t matter because not rushing about, job takes as long as it takes, despite being salaried
respected and appreciated with some gentle ■■■■ taking between drivers and admin/middle managers just like it was back in the day, long may it continueyes i appreciate this is unusual, but from a sensible driver’s point of view those of us with our heads threaded correctly do the job with care and unfashionable pride to the best of our ability because we don’t want this job to end
if the supermarkets fuel suppliers etc had kept their own transport operations and offered the excellent terms they used to i’m quite certain they’d still be cherry picking from a never ending stream of good drivers fighting each other to get on board
greed and short termism has brought us to the end of the race to the bottom, hopefully that’s now over at least for the time beingThat’s refreshing to read Juddian , that there are still companies out there doing it right. I think the point here though is the companies who have caused the problem are the ones who shout loudest now they have had their fingers burnt .I know a company that has drivers doing a 3 hour induction when they start for them signing the dos and donts and the priceless dont leave the yard with any defects whatsoever only to find once working for them defects become secondary. One comment stating its in for inspection or mot soon we will do it then . If you get pulled its your fault you signed the induction
I’ll tell you what Ramone, Movianto are the worst for this, it takes you a whole day to sign all the disclaimers when you start there, not to read them just sign them! I kid you not it would take you a fortnight if you were to actually read everything, the pile of papers are over 12” thick and what do you get for that…treated like dirt if you should dare to speak up or worse still refuse to do something. Purely seen to be doing the right thing. Have to say Argos were very good with repairs etc and I never had any pressure put on me whatsoever and realistic amount of work.
Just seen this on the internet, unbelievable!
Apologies, looks like that was 2018
Kempston:
ramone:
Juddian:
Grumpy its not all bad out there, i’m fortunate enough to be on own account and everything you note about the better days still generally applies.Wages v good
conditions ditto
rules and regs don’t bother us really because we arn’t pushed to the last minute nor expected to race around like our arse is alight
mobile might ring once a month, usually if something has changed
traffic levels again don’t matter because not rushing about, job takes as long as it takes, despite being salaried
respected and appreciated with some gentle ■■■■ taking between drivers and admin/middle managers just like it was back in the day, long may it continueyes i appreciate this is unusual, but from a sensible driver’s point of view those of us with our heads threaded correctly do the job with care and unfashionable pride to the best of our ability because we don’t want this job to end
if the supermarkets fuel suppliers etc had kept their own transport operations and offered the excellent terms they used to i’m quite certain they’d still be cherry picking from a never ending stream of good drivers fighting each other to get on board
greed and short termism has brought us to the end of the race to the bottom, hopefully that’s now over at least for the time beingThat’s refreshing to read Juddian , that there are still companies out there doing it right. I think the point here though is the companies who have caused the problem are the ones who shout loudest now they have had their fingers burnt .I know a company that has drivers doing a 3 hour induction when they start for them signing the dos and donts and the priceless dont leave the yard with any defects whatsoever only to find once working for them defects become secondary. One comment stating its in for inspection or mot soon we will do it then . If you get pulled its your fault you signed the induction
I’ll tell you what Ramone, Movianto are the worst for this, it takes you a whole day to sign all the disclaimers when you start there, not to read them just sign them! I kid you not it would take you a fortnight if you were to actually read everything, the pile of papers are over 12” thick and what do you get for that…treated like dirt if you should dare to speak up or worse still refuse to do something. Purely seen to be doing the right thing. Have to say Argos were very good with repairs etc and I never had any pressure put on me whatsoever and realistic amount of work.
That is exactly what happens at the company i mentioned. They cover their selves because you have signed to say you wont leave the premises with an unfit vehicle but good luck when you try to get it fixed … no chance
On a different note i had an interview yesterday for a job which had a decent hourly rate but very little overtime. I asked if any would be available and was told that they were putting the manager under pressure to cut it down .They were trying to employ more drivers to keep the working week short. Great but when you are going home at 1.30 in the afternoon with around £415 a week its no fun. Totally out of touch
Well i have tried on numerous occasions to get onto tanker work with no success but this morning travelling on the M62 at 54mph a tanker passed me quite comfortably , he pulled in front of me we both came off to go down the A1 and as we approched the chevrons he swerved and went back on the M62 missing the grass verge by inches
Had a good mate of mine call me yesterday, we began mates at Argos, had a mutual interest in football so used to go to away games together with his wife and sons. He’s called it a day on the driving front also, he started up his own outdoor catering business, he said it’s gone absolutely mad and is making a fortune so no more getting up at 3 in the morning and working 12 to 14 hours a day. Another good bloke gone from the industry and not that old either.
So if a driving position were to be advertised that offers a decent rate of pay, then why would the question of overtime even need to be raised ? …
…just a thought.
Eddie Heaton:
So if a driving position were to be advertised that offers a decent rate of pay, then why would the question of overtime even need to be raised ? …
…just a thought.
Because the basic was good but the interviewer (HR) said they were looking to employ more drivers and cut out overtime. You see a job with a good basic for 40 hours then time and a half after that then get to an interview for them to inform you that very little if any overtime will be available is a strange one. When i say a good basic £28080 isnt bad round here but you would be lucky to draw £420 after deductions.I cant afford £7000 drop. The bloke that runs the place wasn`t even at the interview his remotely based TM and a HR man took the interview. I spoke to the guy that runs the job the next day and he was bewildered to what they were telling me
ramone:
Kempston:
What a stupid idea! Perhaps if they paid drivers correctly and treated them with more respect there would be no shortage but this is as ludicrous as stopping face masks.Ridiculous , why would they encourage drivers by giving them a longer working week■■?. How about more money less hours abolish the drivers cpc and insist on transport managers educating drivers on new laws. Retailers and supermarkets to name two start paying the right rates instead of taking advantage of the east europeans for cheap labour. Haribo belly aching about not being able to get drivers ■■? they use Great Bear , who were recently advertising for drivers under £12 per hour , and have you ever tried to deliver to Haribo a nightmare apparently. Sainsburys with their stupid H & S policies , if you don
t fasten your hi vis you arent coming in. Sitting in their canteen with a vending machine and a tv for hours on end because you cant sit in your cab whilst unloading is taking place. I could go on but cant be bothered the whole industry is a joke . Vosa , a bloke in a 4x4 with his rule book in his back pocket looking to see if youve broken the law , a self funding organisation . You couldnt make it up , oh does anyone know why there`s a shortage of hgv drivers
Absolutely spot on…
Sent from my SM-T715 using Tapatalk
Although nothing to do we me however the only answer it pains me to say GET ORGANISED GET IN THE UNION A TRANSPORT UNION approach the rail unions for guidance ,the underground rail workers even had a day off if they had the covid jab ,yes a day off with pay who new about that ,the union sanctioned it.
would they sit in a rest room waiting to tip with no facilities NO it only takes a few to start the snowball rolling target the food distribution sites and get a proper wage my own person al view.
peggydeckboy:
Although nothing to do we me however the only answer it pains me to say GET ORGANISED GET IN THE UNION A TRANSPORT UNION approach the rail unions for guidance ,the underground rail workers even had a day off if they had the covid jab ,yes a day off with pay who new about that ,the union sanctioned it.would they sit in a rest room waiting to tip with no facilities NO it only takes a few to start the snowball rolling target the food distribution sites and get a proper wage my own person al view.
I’ve said this times but the trouble with lorry drivers is that there’s always some that won’t do it (stand up and say enough is enough) and whilst you have that the management of the bad companies know they need do nothing, they’ll bleet on until the government relaxes the immigration laws to suit their cause, bring in foreign drivers and we’ll be back to square one.
The difference with the train drivers is (my best mate is a train driver) they all stick together or at least used to. My mate has been doing it for around 30 years now and said the new drivers are messing everything up for themselves, pensions, terms and conditions etc. His terms remain the same as they can’t touch them but the new starters haven’t got half the rights of the older drivers. Bob Crow, like him or loathe him makes no difference but he was fantastic for the train drivers.
Some of his conditions you genuinely wouldn’t believe as I had no idea before he told me but it’s exceptional to say the least. He earns around £65,000 per year but doesn’t do extra shifts or any odd shifts anymore but those that do can earn £100,000 per year and there are some that do. I doubt that he’s actually at work for more than around 30 hours a week for that.