the nodding donkey:
the real driver shortage will come…
No it won’t, they are banking on driverless trucks! 
Evil8Beezle:
the nodding donkey:
the real driver shortage will come…No it won’t, they are banking on driverless trucks!
Not just trucks.
Also numerous job sectors lost to automation in numerous sectors and resulting collapse in employment,incomes,and tax revenues and last but not least the products that the robots turn out.What could possibly go wrong.
Or at best drivers forced into inside jobs where an 8 hour day drags like it’s a 16 hour one and where,unless you’re lucky enough to work nights,you live for seeing the daylight and the outside world of lunchtimes,Summer evenings,weekends and holidays. 
There is not a driver shortage…just bad hauliers paying a crap wage…and even if there was a shortage, there are still lots of EE countries who have not yet joined the Eu, 
lets not forget that if this country ever looks like its gonna be on its knees…we have the army to step in, and lots of other countries the government would/could turn to…ps, good luck on the one day strike ( whenever that is ) will just add fuel to the flames.
What happened is ■■■■ wages. Im looking for permanent not Agency as im fed up of sitting by a phone for 8 hours getting no work and sods law they ring when I cancel childcare or they dont ring at all for a week. Im with 6 agencies and theres bugger all except empty promises and inductions leading to more unemployment.
I had an offer of a permanent Class 1 job at Featherstone yesterday. 6am-5pm general haulage. £19,000 a year. I spat my cuppa out and laughed. Apparently it is because half the year I would drive a 7.5tonne vehicle.
Why would I waste my time driving a 7.5 tonner for 6 months a year on minimum bleeding wage?
Aspray 24 for the record.
can’t get the staff they want or need,well if they paid a decent bloody wage [some do] they would get drivers who would probably stay till retirement,also working conditions count for a lot as well,the jobs who do pay well are the jobs who never need to advertise as their drivers do not want to leave.
Andrew.simmons:
What happened is [zb] wages. Im looking for permanent not Agency as im fed up of sitting by a phone for 8 hours getting no work and sods law they ring when I cancel childcare or they dont ring at all for a week. Im with 6 agencies and theres bugger all except empty promises and inductions leading to more unemployment.I had an offer of a permanent Class 1 job at Featherstone yesterday. 6am-5pm general haulage. £19,000 a year. I spat my cuppa out and laughed. Apparently it is because half the year I would drive a 7.5tonne vehicle.
Why would I waste my time driving a 7.5 tonner for 6 months a year on minimum bleeding wage?
Aspray 24 for the record.
That example seems to confirm and fit the scenario of an over supplied labour market as opposed to a supposed under supplied one.Also a contracting haulage market for heavy trucks.Leaving proportionally more 7.5 t or 18t work ?.
Here’s a thought: - If the pay for driving a truck is “low”, then wouldn’t it be better to have that job as a 25-hour per week part time job - and cream up the in-work benefits like the immigrants do?
There is more choice in work than “Unemployment” or “50+ hours per week full time employment”.
Call it “Underemployment” if you like. The last thing anyone should want to do though is “compound the losses” by working more than a 35 hour week at such paltry hourly rates. Get it down low enough, and the in-work benefits kick in. Remember YOU didn’t do this to yourself - the industry did. There is no shame in “strategic working” in a manner that improves, rather than detriments your lifestyle. 
Like I have said before the ones bleating about driver shortage are wanting a bung from the tax payer to train drivers ( a thing they should be doing anyway )
Winseer:
Here’s a thought: - If the pay for driving a truck is “low”, then wouldn’t it be better to have that job as a 25-hour per week part time job - and cream up the in-work benefits like the immigrants do?There is more choice in work than “Unemployment” or “50+ hours per week full time employment”.
Call it “Underemployment” if you like. The last thing anyone should want to do though is “compound the losses” by working more than a 35 hour week at such paltry hourly rates. Get it down low enough, and the in-work benefits kick in. Remember YOU didn’t do this to yourself - the industry did. There is no shame in “strategic working” in a manner that improves, rather than detriments your lifestyle.
£380 per week to drive a 7.5 tonner isn’t that bad and more than I ever saw driving artics etc.Although saying that it is more likely to be the type of work which not many want to do at any wage.
Which leaves the real issue being the lack of class 1 work and too many drivers looking for what there is.Hence relatively low wages for class 1 in many cases even if they can find a decent class 1 job.
As for in work benefits the information suggests that it’s conditional on 30 hours per week minimum.While it’s doubtful that an employer would want to employ 2 workers to cover a 60 + hour week’s worth of work.Although job sharing along those lines,to take advantage of in work benefits,might work in the case of agency.Although is that a fair deal for the taxpayer.IE workers and others funding their own under,or even arguably in that case sufficient, employment.When what’s needed in that case is sufficient wages and an employment regime that’s based on 4 x 8 32 hours per week or 3 x 12 36 hours per week for example without expecting the taxpayer to subsidise it.IE do people need to work silly hours in the 21st century let alone in an environment of an over supplied labour market.When income levels in a modern developed economy would have been expected by now to have covered and allowed for such a civilised work ethic.
fuse:
Like I have said before the ones bleating about driver shortage are wanting a bung from the tax payer to train drivers ( a thing they should be doing anyway )
If it was cash for training they were looking for they wouldn’t be applying the same old ‘experience’ requirements regarding newly qualified drivers.It’s more like lobbying to keep the door open for immigrant labour to maintain the status quo of an over supplied ( rigged ) labour market.
Carryfast:
Andrew.simmons:
What happened is [zb] wages. Im looking for permanent not Agency as im fed up of sitting by a phone for 8 hours getting no work and sods law they ring when I cancel childcare or they dont ring at all for a week. Im with 6 agencies and theres bugger all except empty promises and inductions leading to more unemployment.I had an offer of a permanent Class 1 job at Featherstone yesterday. 6am-5pm general haulage. £19,000 a year. I spat my cuppa out and laughed. Apparently it is because half the year I would drive a 7.5tonne vehicle.
Why would I waste my time driving a 7.5 tonner for 6 months a year on minimum bleeding wage?
Aspray 24 for the record.
That example seems to confirm and fit the scenario of an over supplied labour market as opposed to a supposed under supplied one.Also a contracting haulage market for heavy trucks.Leaving proportionally more 7.5 t or 18t work ?.
I always believed that rigids and 7.5t were more profitable than an artic. You can take a rigid into town centers much easier and do multi-drop as opposed to one-hitters like Artics. They have been trying to get a driver for 6 months. Nobody wants to touch it. Why would anyone want to work 55 hour a week for £290 take home on a class 1 licence?
I dont think there is an surplus of drivers. I believe there is a prevelance of the workforce being nothing but an expendable tool. Drivers are only wantes when companies desire them hence the dire first few months of the year and the begging for more at the end of the year.
I think the job landscape has become one in which permanent drivers are seen as a waste; it is easier to pay an agency ad hoc than have drivers doing nothing, paying NI and Holiday, sick and pensions.
Andrew.simmons:
I always believed that rigids and 7.5t were more profitable than an artic. You can take a rigid into town centers much easier and do multi-drop as opposed to one-hitters like Artics. They have been trying to get a driver for 6 months. Nobody wants to touch it. Why would anyone want to work 55 hour a week for £290 take home on a class 1 licence?I dont think there is an surplus of drivers. I believe there is a prevelance of the workforce being nothing but an expendable tool. Drivers are only wantes when companies desire them hence the dire first few months of the year and the begging for more at the end of the year.
It’s probably a generalisation to say that all rigid work is distribution type dross.I think we’re dealing with a very specific sector which is mostly 7.5t or 18t and possibly sometimes 6 wheelers.But your description seems to fit exactly my experience of employers desperately trying to lumber class 1 drivers with that type of work because too many drivers don’t want it.On that note it’s nothing new and applied just the same when I started out in the early 1980’s to the point where I would have happily taken decent class 1 or class 2 work ( as opposed to class 3 then ) for less money than doing 7.5t/16t multi drop if it had been available.In those days 7.5 t being car licence and that’s one of the lines which I told the agency when I walked away after being given more than enough of that type of work.IE if you want a car driver to do local multi drop then employ one but stop wasting my time and career as class 1.Having said that ironically I did do one decent class 3 job there doing distance bulk pallet work which was as good as anything I ever did driving artics.In which case there are exceptions that prove the rule.But in general it’s often more about the quality of the work not just the wage.
Andrew.simmons:
I think the job landscape has become one in which permanent drivers are seen as a waste; it is easier to pay an agency ad hoc than have drivers doing nothing, paying NI and Holiday, sick and pensions.
It never has been, and never will be, cheaper to use agency drivers in place of employed drivers.
As for a driver shortage, so far today I have hade four phone calls from drivers enquiring if I have any vacancies. For the last six weeks it probably averages eight enquiries weekly for driving jobs.
gingerfold:
Andrew.simmons:
I think the job landscape has become one in which permanent drivers are seen as a waste; it is easier to pay an agency ad hoc than have drivers doing nothing, paying NI and Holiday, sick and pensions.It never has been, and never will be, cheaper to use agency drivers in place of employed drivers.
Except when on agency “subbing”, and being sent into RM over Christmas. No parity pay @ nearly £18ph qualified for - you get paid whatever your agency bog-standard rate happens to be, say £10ph.As for a driver shortage, so far today I have hade four phone calls from drivers enquiring if I have any vacancies. For the last six weeks it probably averages eight enquiries weekly for driving jobs.
gingerfold:
As for a driver shortage, so far today I have hade four phone calls from drivers enquiring if I have any vacancies. For the last six weeks it probably averages eight enquiries weekly for driving jobs.
And this against a background of the squealing idiots in the FTA and RHA telling everyone who will listen that the country is destined to end up in a state of chaos because there is an enormous driver shortage already with us. Nothing to do with RHA members thinking that they are entitled to a chunk of taxpayers’ money to make up for their own blinding lack of business acumen and foresight, of course.
gingerfold:
Andrew.simmons:
I think the job landscape has become one in which permanent drivers are seen as a waste; it is easier to pay an agency ad hoc than have drivers doing nothing, paying NI and Holiday, sick and pensions.It never has been, and never will be, cheaper to use agency drivers in place of employed drivers.
As for a driver shortage, so far today I have hade four phone calls from drivers enquiring if I have any vacancies. For the last six weeks it probably averages eight enquiries weekly for driving jobs.
If it isnt cheaper paying agency then why dont they take a permanent employee to do the job? I always thought it was because they dont need that driver 5 days a week.
Andrew, without getting too much into specifics of the job there are peaks and troughs of work volumes on not only a weekly basis but also on a day to day basis. This has become more noticeable since the economy moved on to a 7 day trading cycle, admittedly quite a few years ago now. This is particularly so if a company is involved in food and supermarket work. In my own company I need drivers 7 days a week, but typically today, Tuesday, there is less work to cover than there will be on Thursday and Friday. Companies much larger than the one I work for will use agency drivers to cover these peak work volumes, and also use them for sickness and holiday cover. We never use agency drivers but schedule permanent drivers to cover our varying work volumes, backed up by one semi-retired driver who works when required, but he is still on our payroll. Also 4-on-4-off shift drivers cover additional shifts when necessary.
As for the economics of agency drivers against employed drivers then if a driver is paid by his agency at a rate of £X per hour then the agency will charge its client £X per hour plus 30% to 50% of £X. If I pay my driver the same £X per hour my employer costs are £X plus 14% of £X. It’s a no-brainer to use an employed cards-in driver if I do my job properly.
I guess bigger companies like DHL benefit from agency then? I always found it odd how companies use so many agency. I always assumed that paying an agency say £20p p/h was cheaper in the long run compared to paying NI/Holiday/Sick.
Then again, self employed fiddle puts all that on the driver
The bigger the company then its inevitable that they will need agency driver cover. I worked for a company with 160 employed drivers, so work out for yourself what summer holiday cover alone is required. We needed up to 30 agency drivers on the busier days and at weekends in the time the work was expanding rapidly and couldn’t recruit new drivers and train them quickly enough to cope with the volumes. Eventually through recruitment I was able to reduce the need for agency cover to virtually nothing.
As a transport manager who has being doing the job for more years than I care to admit to my philosophy is to pay drivers the most the job will stand, treat them like human beings, and provide good vehicles and equipment to work with. Do all of that and you will never be short of drivers.
gingerfold:
As a transport manager who has being doing the job for more years than I care to admit to my philosophy is to pay drivers the most the job will stand, treat them like human beings, and provide good vehicles and equipment to work with. Do all of that and you will never be short of drivers.
Exactly my philosophy and we are probably a similar age.
We can’t use agency drivers as none of them will have the licenses we require and we manage reasonably well, though it’s not unusual for any of us three managers to go out and do some driving. When it’s quiet, I have the pain of seeing the drivers sitting in the tea room, but I do factor that into the rates.