not deliberately adding fuel too the fire, just trying too look at all angles.
what if, the vehicles, in the queue, were stationery, doesn’t mean they were displaying brake lights.
maybe, they were sat stationery, with park/handbrakes on.
if you were approaching this scenario, after a long day on the road, would it be possible, that you’d assume vehicles were not stationery, until you were right on top of them, maybe, even, at the point that it was too late too react.
not defending the guy, just trying too cover, all the angles.
something, too be said, for those, that flash their hazard warning lights, in this sort of scenario.
bubsy06:
Also If there was other vehicles in front you would see them slowing down so you would know there was something happening in front of them unless you were not looking
Whoa come on make your mind up !!!
Either he was oblivious for the full mile like you have insitsed or he wasn’t ■■?
If other vehicles were slowing down in your opinion, how come he never hit any of them instead? I’ve yet to see the day when ALL motorway traffic moves into the Lane 1 when seeing slowing traffic ahead, there’s always one who wants to drive down the Lane 2 to get up front.
A second thought to this, is also the fact that when traffic stops most apply handbrakes therefore brakelights are not always lit.
bubsy06:
Also If there was other vehicles in front you would see them slowing down so you would know there was something happening in front of them unless you were not looking
Whoa come on make your mind up !!!
Either he was oblivious for the full mile like you have insitsed or he wasn’t ■■?
If other vehicles were slowing down in your opinion, how come he never hit any of them instead? I’ve yet to see the day when ALL motorway traffic moves into the Lane 1 when seeing slowing traffic ahead, there’s always one who wants to drive down the Lane 2 to get up front.
A second thought to this, is also the fact that when traffic stops most apply handbrakes therefore brakelights are not always lit.
Your the one saying there might of been traffic in front so he could not see the stationary vehicles.
My opinion was he was not looking at the road ahead, does not matter if there were no vehicles or 50 vehicles. He would of seen traffic slowing down or stopped.
If you have just joined the back of the queue you are more than likely to be using the footbrake. Not many people stop and put on the handbrake straight away, they will stay on the footbrake until they know what the traffic is going to do.
i give up, there’s no evidence she did hit the first lorry, there’s no evidence she didn’t
theres no evidence he was looking at the laptop, but you believe that
the police say the conditions were excellent, eyewitnesses at the scene say it was raining heavy
i’ve just given you an alternative thats all, you evidently haven’t got the mental capacity to process it.
biggusdickusgb:
i give up, there’s no evidence she did hit the first lorry, there’s no evidence she didn’t
theres no evidence he was looking at the laptop, but you believe that
the police say the conditions were excellent, eyewitnesses at the scene say it was raining heavy
i’ve just given you an alternative thats all, you evidently haven’t got the mental capacity to process it.
If there is no evidence why bring it up?
Look through every one of my posts I have never said he was looking at his laptop.
All I have said is the lorry driver was not concentrating on the road ahead. If he was he would of seen vehicles slowing down or stopped and acted accordinly. No other driver crashed into that queue, they all managed to see it.
Mike-C:
Sorry you think its a poor comment to throw in. But i’ll repeat (again)the words of an actual witness the next day who as far as i know provided his statement to the police, maybe his words never made it into the courts…
I was passing on the opposite carriageway going southbound when i notice a van had been in an accident near to the junction 17 ,i wondered why there was no traffic was coming up on the opposite side so has i continued along i could see that the traffic was being diverted off at junction 16 it was pouring down and the next thing i saw was this lorry jackknifeing into the central reservation hitting the barrier and another exploding into flames ,i slowed down to make sure he was’nt gonna come on to my side pulled on the hardshoulder to catch my breath ,has i looked out of the window i could see the driver just managin to get out of his cab to investigate people were still flying down at high speed i was waiting for some more vehicles to join the impact within a matter of a few minute the lorry was well up in flames something was in between but could’nt see what ,
…i had to take in the fact it was pourin down with heavy rain at the time
i am no lawyer or no where near clever enough but what stands out is
Your “witness” saw traffic being diverted off at jnc 16, 5KM yes 5KM (good eyesight) south of the multiple fatality RTC, ( instantaneous closing of a jnc 5KM away whilst an incident progressing right in front of them, that’s bloody good even by my standards) jnc 16 was not closed until after the multiple RTC, jnc 17 was closed after the van RTC, what happened later in the evening was jnc 16 was closed and another truck jackknifed into central res 15-16, was this heavy braking to avoid another queue ? ( i cannot remember if it set on fire) was it this one your “witness” saw which was a new incident because as your “witness” states traffic was flying therefore midas had not had time to activate or was being “ignored” again, also there was another incident later under jnc 15 with an jackknifed or overturned truck.
There were 11 road fatalities in cheshire that night I recall, many on the motorways, i don’t recall any rain whatsoever between 8,30ish pm and 11,30 ish pm or it would have been hitting my head, the heavy rain you “witness” talks about may have been later below jnc 16 or very localised, (It’s very interesting what possible witnesses see or think they see it opened my eyes on a collision investigation course )
bubsy06:
No other driver crashed into that queue, they all managed to see it.
How do you know, they may have been some minor shunts and probably many near misses, we’ve all seen that situation on the motorway.
Picture it, a wet, dark, busy motorway, all you see is brake lights going on then off again as the traffic slows bunches up then moves again. Then Oh ■■■■. it isn’t just slowing down, but it’s actually stopped.
Well i remember it raining heavily. You don’t remember rain. I never seen the accident so i couldn’t say what it was doing there. Police man says conditions was excellent. Although (the best i could get ) a weather warning in place at the time gives a different story to the ‘excellent’ driving conditions reported by the officer or your recollection of positively balmy weather. ukweatherworld.co.uk/forum/f … 67&posts=1
At the end of the day he was convicted of death by careless driving based on the fact he was not paying proper attention to the road ahead. You can go through every scenario but the facts read out in court state that it was clear that for a period of around a whole minute da Silva was not paying proper attention to the road and fatally hit the car in front.
Mike-C:
Well i remember it raining heavily. You don’t remember rain. I never seen the accident so i couldn’t say what it was doing there. Police man says conditions was excellent. Although (the best i could get ) a weather warning in place at the time gives a different story to the ‘excellent’ driving conditions reported by the officer or your recollection of positively balmy weather. ukweatherworld.co.uk/forum/f … 67&posts=1
Here is a quote from Sergeant David Cox, motorway supervisor for Cheshire Police, he was one of the first officers at the scene of the crash.
On the night of the crash the weather was dry and he described the road conditions as “excellent”.
He said drivers had a clear view of the road ahead in the run-up to the spot where the accident took place.
It was raining previously, may have been raining later, cannot remember much rain, remember stood out for hours chatting to passing truckers and telling them the diversion route. Maybe the rain affected my memory.
Let’s hope something comes out at inquest as to why the first fatal happened closing the motorway.
Anyway it was a bad/sad night all round for everyone involved. Hopefully everyone can try and move on as the past cannot be changed
bubsy06:
At the end of the day he was convicted of death by careless driving based on the fact he was not paying proper attention to the road ahead. You can go through every scenario but the facts read out in court state that it was clear that for a period of around a whole minute da Silva was not paying proper attention to the road and fatally hit the car in front.
Well considering nobody is disputing that your wasting your time
What is being discussed is the length of sentence dished out, AND the holier than thou crowd who feel he should of got a much heavier sentence whilst implying that they are perfect and never lose concentration
I am sorry but 3yrs is a joke he should have got longer .I bet he will be back in spain in 12months
is lawyer will see to that and then he will be free with in 2/3months it is a big JOKE
bubsy06:
At the end of the day he was convicted of death by careless driving based on the fact he was not paying proper attention to the road ahead. You can go through every scenario but the facts read out in court state that it was clear that for a period of around a whole minute da Silva was not paying proper attention to the road and fatally hit the car in front.
Well considering nobody is disputing that your wasting your time
What is being discussed is the length of sentence dished out, AND the holier than thou crowd who feel he should of got a much heavier sentence whilst implying that they are perfect and never lose concentration
So you made me type all that for nothing
He should of got longer. The time he spent on remand will be taken off his sentence so he will be out in a year. Also I am not a perfect driver far from it. I take my eyes of the road who doesn’t, but that lorry driver took his eyes off the road for too long.
Hi Biggus, Davey Driver and everyone else who has tried to post a reasoned debate about this tragic loss of life, this kind of incident has happened before and it will happen again because that is life. Mr Da Silva was found guilty of causing the death’s of a family and I’m sure he will have to live with that guilt for the rest of his life obviously not to the same extent as the Statham’s extended family who will have to live with a massive loss forever.
I think we should all take on board the post’s made by someone who is obviously a lot closer to this tragedy than any of us and it doesn’t seem like they are after an execution although the length of sentence is questioned and has obviously provoked anger. Which is understandable given the circumstances but that is the how the sentencing laws of our country work and we have to live with that.
AFAIC There are too many people driving, all kinds of motor vehicle’s, that think their own experience, knowledge, qualifications and feelings of superiority that make them immune from being involved in any kind of incident that can and does happen on the road network everyday.
This thread has started to go the same way as a lot others have, If you are not with us you are against us, reasoned debate has gone out of the window, if you make any satement that might try to offer an explanation or open a proper discussion the ‘hang em & flog em, holier than thou brigade’ have to jump on yer back with the blinkered view of looking at everything.
spencerhic welcome to TNUK and as others have said condolences to all who you know who have been affected by this tragedy. I don’t believe anyone has tried in any way to make excuses for what happened and what Mr Da Silva did or didn’t do, we have imo tried to have a reasoned debate about it, because as I’m sure you are absolutely fully aware these are the things that choosing driving as an occupation is something that could happen to any of us any day of the week.
Again my personal condolences and hope that you continue to post on TNUK
Regards
Dave Penn;
davepenn54:
Hi Biggus, Davey Driver and everyone else who has tried to post a reasoned debate about this tragic loss of life, this kind of incident has happened before and it will happen again because that is life. Mr Da Silva was found guilty of causing the death’s of a family and I’m sure he will have to live with that guilt for the rest of his life obviously not to the same extent as the Statham’s extended family who will have to live with a massive loss forever.
I think we should all take on board the post’s made by someone who is obviously a lot closer to this tragedy than any of us and it doesn’t seem like they are after an execution although the length of sentence is questioned and has obviously provoked anger. Which is understandable given the circumstances but that is the how the sentencing laws of our country work and we have to live with that.
AFAIC There are too many people driving, all kinds of motor vehicle’s, that think their own experience, knowledge, qualifications and feelings of superiority that make them immune from being involved in any kind of incident that can and does happen on the road network everyday.
This thread has started to go the same way as a lot others have, If you are not with us you are against us, reasoned debate has gone out of the window, if you make any satement that might try to offer an explanation or open a proper discussion the ‘hang em & flog em, holier than thou brigade’ have to jump on yer back with the blinkered view of looking at everything.
spencerhic welcome to TNUK and as others have said condolences to all who you know who have been affected by this tragedy. I don’t believe anyone has tried in any way to make excuses for what happened and what Mr Da Silva did or didn’t do, we have imo tried to have a reasoned debate about it, because as I’m sure you are absolutely fully aware these are the things that choosing driving as an occupation is something that could happen to any of us any day of the week.
Again my personal condolences and hope that you continue to post on TNUK
Regards
Dave Penn;
I’m with what dave said in a case like this no sentence will ever be enough for the loss you feel, also it could happen to any of us anyday with no reason da silva doesn’t deserve the same sentence as someone who willingly took 6 lifes. What ever your opinions I hope you stick around and jion in these debates/slagging matches/ name calling/ play ground sessions.
All I have said is the lorry driver was not concentrating on the road ahead. If he was he would of seen vehicles slowing down or stopped and acted accordinly. No other driver crashed into that queue, they all managed to see it.
He was concentrating on the road,his speed was down to 30 mph at impact he had lost 26mph before the impact.
All I have said is the lorry driver was not concentrating on the road ahead. If he was he would of seen vehicles slowing down or stopped and acted accordinly. No other driver crashed into that queue, they all managed to see it.
He was concentrating on the road,his speed was down to 30 mph at impact he had lost 26mph before the impact.
He has been convicted, the facts of the crash are on many news web pages.
The fact that he did hit them yes that is correct,the facts leading upto the collision have not…most is supposition,as nobody was actualy watching or recording what actualy happened.While i agree it happened and the man was convicted should be enough,debating as who what or why should go on.This man will have to live with this for the rest of his life,he is the only one who knows axactly what happened on the day.He may have lied his whole way threw court,he may have spoken the truth we will never now, but to keep condeming the man is wrong…too many if’s and but’s to be judge and jury…
Some say the weather was good,others say it was pouring down,one thing he was not doing was speeding and at 30mph you are not going to be far behind the vehicle in front,it does not matter how far in front the previose accident was,as biggus said if there is trafic in front it will stop well before the accident.
As i said to many if’s and but’s,it is not fair on the people in the car or the driver of the truck…
Am I the only person to notice da silva is guilty because he’s foreign but john vasey is innocent because he’s british.
I’d like to point out I have little knowledge of either case but some posts on both threads are borderline xenophobia.
)
