robroy:
I was not going to comment on this thread as I had said everything about this subject on Evil’s POA thread.
Also I find myself sick of banging on about it as it is like ■■■■■■■ against the wind as far as some driver’s attitudes are concerned. Not only that but I am sick of hearing myself going on about it.
As for 15 hour days, I will do a 15 for my own benefit or for whatever reason…, get home, or if I am asked (nicely) or in a get out of jail free situation.
I do NOT look upon 15 hr days as many do, as a compulsory thing.
I have no intention of going back to maxing out every bloody week as I regularly used to, and I choose now to only do 4 and a half days, as after 30 + yrs I see things for what they REALLY are now, and not what I am told they are. …but each to his own and all that.
In modern times there should be no question of a driver doing a 15 hour working day, and certainly not starting again after 9 off.
In my opinion a 12 and a half to 13 is more than enough, for any driver… with wages brought into line so nobody loses out.
However, if we suddenly woke up in our cabs one day, and found ourselves in Cloudcuckooland, the land where suddenly the NEED for some to do 15 hour days in terms of earnings, was eradicated by the powers that be, ie by the passing of a law that we were on realistic pay structures, … that meant we were getting the same amount a 12 hour day (with time and half etc) than what we are now for 15, you would still get some idiots wanting to do 15, or in some cases 23 and a half.
You can argue about the need for driver’s hours to be this that and the other all bloody day, but it never ceases to amaze me that in this present climate of stringent Health and Safety, that is actually deemed safe for a 44 tonne truck to be in operation by a driver for 15 hours after having 6 or so hours sleep in his 9 off, with all the potential catastrophes this could, and in many cases DOES cause on our roads.
You will never satisfy the human need for more. Look at people like Philip Green, he and his wife have billions but this isn’t enough. They still want more, as do bankers, footballers and many others, they have this need that they cannot supress.
Ironically twelve and a half hour day max is exactly what we did have, till we harmonised with the EU (whatever it was called at the time) and gained a much safer 15 hour day.
Those who weren’t there won’t know about the not so subtle blackmail to force in tachos at the same time, no tacho fitted you were limited to 281 miles a day max, fit tacho and hey presto all the hours God sent and all the miles you could stay awake for, bearing in mind in the 80’s we had proper engined lorries (unless you were stuck with a Gardner 180 or Volvo F86) with few or none at all limiters that could cover some serious ground.
robroy:
You will never satisfy the human need for more. Look at people like Philip Green, he and his wife have billions but this isn’t enough. They still want more, as do bankers, footballers and many others, they have this need that they cannot supress.
Fair point, but the difference between Mr Green, and Wayne Rooney being greedy, and the Trucking God heroes who stick out their chests and say ‘’ You are in the wrong job mate, I only need 6 hours sleep me, and I do my 15 hours to earn my good money that I make’’ …are not in a conflict of interest situation in terms of public safety and welfare are they.
Also Messrs Rooney and Green are not being conned into thinking, gullible enough to believe or crazy enough to work for the same rate right through or time + 10p after 50 hours.
You have it in one Robroy , I started this subject because all the talk in haulage is never about the drivers conditions that should equate to 2017 ,it is all about the truck and what can we stick on them next ,never mind the cost or tare wt,NEVER THE DRIVER WHAT CAN WE DO FOR HIM …ho dear no we can not afford that on and on it goes
Darkside:
Post Brexit surely the driver’s hours will be increased. This will combat any driver shortage.
Do you mean no EU drivers ?
In a small part yes. We are already seeing lads going back home, because the pound has crashed.
We can’t go to higher weights as our infrastructure won’t cope, so we will have the same amount of truck miles to with less drivers.
The only way is to ‘relax’ the Tacho Laws, so each driver can do more.
Unless of course drivers stood together and demanded enough money to make the job attractive.
This is the tug-of-war we now face as an industrial group. If it’s dangerous to be working a 15 hour shift now, then FFS how bad could it get if government permits firms to have us all out upto 24/7 - with the massive increase in road deaths that it would surely bring?
If the government kept all existing EU regulations on driving (and other stuff) as we left the EU, then picked-off each law one-by-one that they didn’t want… The government choosing to do “nothing at all” (which they are good at, let’s face it) would actually allow market forces to push up our wages in due course.
This will especially be the case as more and more EE drivers return home, because the money they’ve been sending home of late - just doesn’t cut it so much any more.
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that at least a few EE nations have seen some “ramping up” of driver wages in the past five years in particular… Because of their own driver shortages, what with them being “Over here” and all!
robroy:
but it never ceases to amaze me that in this present climate of stringent Health and Safety, that is actually deemed safe for a 44 tonne truck to be in operation by a driver for 15 hours after having 6 or so hours sleep in his 9 off, with all the potential catastrophes this could, and in many cases DOES cause on our roads.
Our H&S culture isn’t built upon a desire for safety, but the need to avoid big payouts due to our No Win No Fee compensation culture.
robroy:
but it never ceases to amaze me that in this present climate of stringent Health and Safety, that is actually deemed safe for a 44 tonne truck to be in operation by a driver for 15 hours after having 6 or so hours sleep in his 9 off, with all the potential catastrophes this could, and in many cases DOES cause on our roads.
Our H&S culture isn’t built upon a desire for safety, but the need to avoid big payouts due to our No Win No Fee compensation culture.
Plus the need to employ people to find more and more hazards to justify their existence.
A mate of mine uses the 15 hour duty to his advantage.
He does weekends only 3x15 hour shifts at weekends and bank hols all at premium rate.
His house is paid for, only him and his Mrs, so he gets by on it and has all the test as time off.
He was a tramper since the early 80s, came off it for about 10 yrs in a factory, wemt back to it but got ■■■■■■ off with how different it had became.
Tried day and night trunk work, dabbled in a bit of tramping but got fed up with it all.
So now he is happy doing his 45 hour block as he puts it.
Many of his mates do the same hours over 5 days in other jobs, but it suits his lifestyle.
fuse:
You have it in one Robroy , I started this subject because all the talk in haulage is never about the drivers conditions that should equate to 2017 ,it is all about the truck and what can we stick on them next ,never mind the cost or tare wt,NEVER THE DRIVER WHAT CAN WE DO FOR HIM …ho dear no we can not afford that on and on it goes
Fuse, I’m with you and Robroy on this. No argumentfrom me.
fuse:
You have it in one Robroy , I started this subject because all the talk in haulage is never about the drivers conditions that should equate to 2017 ,it is all about the truck and what can we stick on them next ,never mind the cost or tare wt,NEVER THE DRIVER WHAT CAN WE DO FOR HIM …ho dear no we can not afford that on and on it goes
Conditions for workers are rarely if ever improved because of the goodwill of the employers or goverment.
They are improved because the workforce push for them, this doesn’t always have to be through industrial action, it can be done through negotiations, but to achieve this the workforce needs to have at least enough power to be a match for thier employer.
Without unity the haulage industry will be very slow to change if ever, in fact from what I’ve seen its got worse as it’s got worse for many workers over the last couple of decades.
While I don’t want to see the total abuse of union power we saw in the 70’s I would like to see more workers unite, while not losing site of the fact they need employers with profitable businesses to pay their wages and improve conditions.
robroy:
A mate of mine uses the 15 hour duty to his advantage.
He does weekends only 3x15 hour shifts at weekends and bank hols all at premium rate.
His house is paid for, only him and his Mrs, so he gets by on it and has all the test as time off.
He was a tramper since the early 80s, came off it for about 10 yrs in a factory, wemt back to it but got ■■■■■■ off with how different it had became.
Tried day and night trunk work, dabbled in a bit of tramping but got fed up with it all.
So now he is happy doing his 45 hour block as he puts it.
Many of his mates do the same hours over 5 days in other jobs, but it suits his lifestyle.
That’s what I often tried to do on agency. Places like Supermarkets or F&W have 12-15 hour shifts in abundance - it’s worth pointing out. 3x15hrs across a weekend is an easy way to take home £500 for a 3-day week effectively. Because my agency shifts nearly always involved a commute - I’d rather “go to work less times” than work shorter shifts. The clincher for being able to do a 15 hour shift though - is the ability and freedom on your duty to “get your head down” during your official break, I found. If you turned up for a drop say, 45 minutes early and they then say to you “Sorry bud, we’re running late - it’ll be another 2 hours” then guess what…
…but each to his own and all that.
