I’m reading that they do. Where are you getting the idea they don’t?
Under domestic rules your shift starts and ends when you clock on (sign on) untill you clock off sign off?
How so? A day is not and does not have to be 24 hour period with domestic rules?
is this 24 hour period a new thing in domestic rules or summat? My understanding is that you require a rest period when you finish your shift.
Ok, go !!!.. 
Right, hang on. Where am i going wrong ?..
96 Permitted driving time and periods of duty. …
…
(4)Subject to the provision of this section, there shall be, between any two successive working days of a driver, an interval for rest which–
(a)subject to paragraph (b) of this subsection, shall not be of less than eleven hours;
(b)if during both those days all or the greater part of the time when he is driving vehicles to which this Part of this Act applies is spent in driving one or more passenger vehicles, may, on one occasion in each working week, be of less than eleven hours but not of less than nine and a half hours;
and for the purposes of this Part of this Act a period of time shall not be treated, in the case of an employee-driver, as not being an interval for rest by reason only that he may be called upon to report for duty if required.
It looks like a goods vehicle driver working to domestic rules has to have 11 hours between shifts to me 
When I first started driving artics in the early 70s I’m sure we had to have what today would be called a daily rest period between shifts, can’t honestly remember if it was 11 hours but going on the 1968 transport act it looks like it was.
Having said that, it’s 4:30 in the morning and I’ve just finished a shift so anything I say now shouldn’t be taken too seriously 
Right, hang on. Where am i going wrong ?..
I’m sure history is being re written here !!! Duty has always been from when you start work until when you finish it. Before the introduction of POA that box as always an ‘on duty’. I’m sure this idea of splitting a working day up is a new one !!!
Anyway, where’s the domestic rules for goods vehicles?
Mike-C:
Anyway, where’s the domestic rules for goods vehicles?
online.businesslink.gov.uk/Tran … s_0511.pdf
Domestic starts on page 26 of 56
Domestic drivers hours rules apply to the drivers’ of Vehicles on journeys within the United Kingdom which are exempt from the EC rules.
The rules do not apply to drivers who always drive off the public road (i.e. driving in connection with road improvements or road maintenance, quarrying or other construction work or civil engineering works).A driver who drives for less than 4 hours in any day in any fixed week (24:00 hrs Sunday to 24:00 hrs Sunday) does not have to observe the drivers hours requirement during that week.
Daily Driving Limit - Domestic A driver must not drive for more than 10 hours in a day. The daily driving limit applies to time spent at the wheel actually driving on a public road. Off-road driving counts as duty time.
Daily Duty Limit - Domestic A driver must not be on duty for more that 11 hours on any working day. A driver is exempt from the daily duty limit on any working day when he does not drive.
Emergencies
The domestic rules are relaxed for events needing immediate action to avoid danger to life of health; serious interruption of essential public services (gas, water, electricity, or drainage); or of telecommunications and postal services; or in the use of roads, railways, ports, airports; or serious damage to property. In these cases the driving and duty limits are suspended for the duration of the emergency.
SUMMARY OF BRITISH DOMESTIC RULES
MAX DAILY DRIVING 10HRS
MAX DAILY DUTY 11HRS
CONTINUOUS DUTY - NO SPECIFIED LIMIT
DAILY SPREADOVER - NO SPECIFIED LIMIT
WEEKLY DUTY - NO SPECIFIED LIMIT
BREAKS DURING DAY - NO REQUIREMENT SPECIFIED
DAILY REST - NO SPECIFIED REQUIREMENT (but obviously a minimum of 13hrs so as not to exceed the daily 11hr duty limit)
WEEKLY REST - NO SPECIFIED REQUIREMENT
Page 101 Goods vehicle drivers hours and working time
David Lowe 2011
This is interesting, the 1968 transport act seems to suggest that a break of at-least 11 hours is required between shifts and the maximum spread-over is 12 1/2 hours and I can’t seem to find any revision of this part of the transport act
> Transport Act 1968
>
> 1968 CHAPTER 73
>
> PART VI
> DRIVERS’ HOURS[/b]
> (2) This Part of this Act applies to–
> (a) passenger vehicles, that is to say– (i) public service vehicles; and
> (ii) motor vehicles (other than public service vehicles) constructed or adapted to carry more than
> twelve passengers;
> (b) goods vehicles, that is to say–
> (i) heavy locomotives, light locomotives, motor tractors and any motor vehicle so constructed that
> a trailer may by partial superimposition be attached to the vehicle in such a manner as to cause a
> substantial part of the weight of the trailer to be borne by the vehicle; and
> (ii) motor vehicles (except those mentioned in paragraph (a) of this subsection) constructed or
> adapted to carry goods other than the
> effects of passengers.
>
> ~ snip ~
>
> (3) Subject to the provisions of this section, the working day of a driver–
> (a) except where paragraph (b) or (c) of this subsection applies, shall not exceed eleven hours;
> (b) if during that day he is off duty for a period which is, or periods which taken together
> are, not less than the time by which his working day exceeds eleven hours, shall not exceed twelve
> and a half hours;
> (c) if during that day–
> (i) all the time when he is driving vehicles to which this Part of this Act applies is spent in
> driving one or more express carriages or contract carriages; and
> (ii) he is able for a period of not less than four hours to obtain rest and refreshment,
> shall not exceed fourteen hours.
>
> (4) Subject to the provision of this section, there shall be, between any two successive working
> days of a driver, an interval for rest which–
> u subject to paragraph (b) of this subsection, shall not be of less than eleven hours;[/u]
> (b) if during both those days all or the greater part of the time when he is driving vehicles to
> which this Part of this Act applies is spent in driving one or more passenger vehicles, may, on one
> occasion in each working week, be of less than eleven hours but not of less than nine and a half
> hours;
> and for the purposes of this Part of this Act a period of time shall not be treated, in the case of
> an employee-driver, as not being an interval for rest by reason only that he
> may be called upon to report for duty if required.
tachograph:
This is interesting, the 1968 transport act seems to suggest that a break of at-least 11 hours is required between shifts and the maximum spread-over is 12 1/2 hours and I can’t seem to find any revision of this part of the transport act> Transport Act 1968
>
> 1968 CHAPTER 73
>
> PART VI
> DRIVERS’ HOURS[/b]
> (2) This Part of this Act applies to–
> (a) passenger vehicles, that is to say– (i) public service vehicles; and
> (ii) motor vehicles (other than public service vehicles) constructed or adapted to carry more than
> twelve passengers;
> (b) goods vehicles, that is to say–
> (i) heavy locomotives, light locomotives, motor tractors and any motor vehicle so constructed that
> a trailer may by partial superimposition be attached to the vehicle in such a manner as to cause a
> substantial part of the weight of the trailer to be borne by the vehicle; and
> (ii) motor vehicles (except those mentioned in paragraph (a) of this subsection) constructed or
> adapted to carry goods other than the
> effects of passengers.
>
> ~ snip ~
>
> (3) Subject to the provisions of this section, the working day of a driver–
> (a) except where paragraph (b) or (c) of this subsection applies, shall not exceed eleven hours;
> (b) if during that day he is off duty for a period which is, or periods which taken together
> are, not less than the time by which his working day exceeds eleven hours, shall not exceed twelve
> and a half hours;
> (c) if during that day–
> (i) all the time when he is driving vehicles to which this Part of this Act applies is spent in
> driving one or more express carriages or contract carriages; and
> (ii) he is able for a period of not less than four hours to obtain rest and refreshment,
> shall not exceed fourteen hours.
>
> (4) Subject to the provision of this section, there shall be, between any two successive working
> days of a driver, an interval for rest which–
> u subject to paragraph (b) of this subsection, shall not be of less than eleven hours;[/u]
> (b) if during both those days all or the greater part of the time when he is driving vehicles to
> which this Part of this Act applies is spent in driving one or more passenger vehicles, may, on one
> occasion in each working week, be of less than eleven hours but not of less than nine and a half
> hours;
> and for the purposes of this Part of this Act a period of time shall not be treated, in the case of
> an employee-driver, as not being an interval for rest by reason only that he
> may be called upon to report for duty if required.
[/quote]
Very interesting and thanks for reminding me of the old transport regulations when I started driving, it is where the word "spreadover"originated from and we were caught out by silent checks and failure to record in our log books.
That isn’t domestic law as I know it
Looks to me like they apply to goods vehicles and it says so. What makes you think or know it does not apply to goods vehicles when it says so?
So far anyone got anymore concrete info on the domestics rules, i’m not to keen on looking at VOSA’s guide or David Lowes summary?
It looks to me like what is happening here is that people are taking the new POA and using it in the domestic regs. I mean duty time is when you start work until when you finish. Minus a break.
The forst time i heard there was no duty limits or rest periods required is when Graeme posted it, since looking it appears everyone has been spouting the same in the consultation over domestic regs, i can;t see any evidence for what they are saying?
ROG:
Mike-C:
Anyway, where’s the domestic rules for goods vehicles?online.businesslink.gov.uk/Tran … s_0511.pdf
Domestic starts on page 26 of 56
We need the regulations not the guide
The whole first half of the thread has been removed so the whole thing is pretty pointless now and makes no sense out of context and doesn’t address the original question.
Posts Removed.
Coffeeholic:
The whole first half of the thread has been removed so the whole thing is pretty pointless now
I split it because the OP question was answered. The replies brought up another question.
Coffeeholic:
and makes no sense out of context and doesn’t address the original question.
What makes no sense about…Domestic rules do not require a daily rest period
■■? They either do or they don’t.
Coffeeholic:
Posts Removed.
A luxury some don’t have?
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
The whole first half of the thread has been removed so the whole thing is pretty pointless nowI split it because the OP question was answered. The replies brought up another question.
Not another question, a continuation. The OP’s question was about domestic hours and his question was answered but the answer was then questioned. Now if that answer is proved wrong, which it won’t be but let’s pretend, you have a question with a wrong answer which is no good to anybody.
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
and makes no sense out of context and doesn’t address the original question.What makes no sense about…Domestic rules do not require a daily rest period
■■? They either do or they don’t.
I need a new head banging gif for this one I fear.
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
Posts Removed.A luxury some don’t have?
Not true. Everybody can remove their posts, just some can do it more cleanly than others and don’t need to leave a post with nothing more than a full stop.
This is why I don’t post on here very often. Which so called professionals are thinking of the children in all this? How would you like it if a member of your family get the wrong information because of this? RIP thread, my thoughts and prayer are with you in a Diana wailing and grieving way.
Coffeeholic:
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
The whole first half of the thread has been removed so the whole thing is pretty pointless nowI split it because the OP question was answered. The replies brought up another question.
Not another question, a continuation. The OP’s question was about domestic hours and his question was answered but the answer was then questioned. Now if that answer is proved wrong, which it won’t be but let’s pretend, you have a question with a wrong answer which is no good to anybody.
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
and makes no sense out of context and doesn’t address the original question.What makes no sense about…Domestic rules do not require a daily rest period
■■? They either do or they don’t.I need a new head banging gif for this one I fear.
Mike-C:
Coffeeholic:
Posts Removed.A luxury some don’t have?
Not true. Everybody can remove their posts, just some can do it more cleanly than others and don’t need to leave a post with nothing more than a full stop.
This is why I don’t post on here very often. Which so called professionals are thinking of the children in all this? How would you like it if a member of your family get the wrong information because of this? RIP thread, my thoughts and prayer are with you in a Diana wailing and grieving way.
Go on Neil, make me the reason !!! 
tachograph:
ROG:
Mike-C:
Anyway, where’s the domestic rules for goods vehicles?online.businesslink.gov.uk/Tran … s_0511.pdf
Domestic starts on page 26 of 56We need the regulations not the guide
Then may I suggest PMing geebee45 as he is likely to know where the most up to date regulations are to be found
Relying on the original road traffic act is unlikely to be up to date as so much of that has been ammended over the years
ROG:
Relying on the original road traffic act is unlikely to be up to date as so much of that has been ammended over the years
But there doesn’t seem to be any ammendments that i can find. Granted i’m not an expert at reading that stuff, but they are generally listed on the page with it and i thought i’d been through most of them.
This is the situation in a nutshell.
EU Rules. A specified continuous daily rest period means the duty time has to be taken in one lump as the clock starts ticking as soon as you clock on, with the daily rest period completed before the clock gets back round to that time. Breaks and rest during the shift are part of the tacho rules duty time, or ‘spreadover’.
Domestic Rules (for goods vehicles, not passenger). No continuous daily rest period specified, only 13 hours by means of the 11 hours of duty in 24 hours specified. As the period does not have to be continuous and could be taken in as many as 10 or 11 parts, the clock doesn’t start ticking in the same way as the tacho rules and breaks or rest during the shift are not part of the 11 hours of duty time allowed.
That’s it. One requires a continuous rest period with breaks and rest counting toward duty time and the other does not. Therefore one has a continuous duty period and the other does not.
If you drive for less than 4 hours on all days in the week then you could be on duty 24 hours per day as the duty limit no longer applies. If you don’t do any driving on one day in the week and say just did yard work you could be on duty for 24 hours as the duty limit doesn’t apply.
seems that the simple answer to my question is only put in your 11 hours every 24 hr period put in any more and your in the red. am i correct!!
dodester:
seems that the simple answer to my question is only put in your 11 hours every 24 hr period put in any more and your in the red. am i correct!!
Yes.