Fastrantiger:
Slightly off topic if an offence has been commited, how far back can this information be taken from the card and used? I believe the card will take up to 280 days of info?
Tiger
Cards have to hold a minimum of 28 days but in reality they hold far longer than that. I have around 160 days on my card at the moment and geebee45 mentioned recently he came across a card with around 300 days on it. If the offence is on there VOSA can see it if they check the card. The unit will hold at least a years worth of records and as records also have to retained by the company for at least a year, for tacho regulation purposes, VOSA could potentially take action as far back as that.
How come that a tachograph record can be used against you in court,(byVOSA/police etc) but that you cannot use it as defence?
This has got to be a civil rights issue.
Needs to be tested in a high court I reckon.
When doing a printout, does this have to be done after / during the card ejection, as opposed to when the card is still active. I’ve noticed that printing when the card is active, it doesn’t give a finish (or current) mileage readout.
Also, If I’m in a truck on duty for say 3 days, do you do just one printout at the end of the 3 days, or is it one every 24 hours?
Regards
Chris
You don’t need a Printout if you always drive Vehicles with Digital Tachos.
and second,logically you are not finish if your Card is in Slot,so the Tacho doesn’t gives you the Finish Km reading.
And,mind on DAF Trucks. “Don’t switch the Computer to miage!”,and if you are 100 Times British,the EU Law ask for Km Reading
206doorman:
How come that a tachograph record can be used against you in court,(byVOSA/police etc) but that you cannot use it as defence?
This has got to be a civil rights issue.
Needs to be tested in a high court I reckon.
If being used to prosecute you for hour’s infringements then the evidence is there in black and white. The hours can be totalled and it is plain to see if insufficient breaks have been taken or driving limits exceeded. These things are not dependent on location whereas driver’s usually want to use them as a defence against speeding but speeding is location dependent and the tacho doesn’t record location. With analogue tacho’s there is no guarantee the disc being produced was even recorded on the day it is dated. However tacho records have been successfully used for defence purposes, often in conjunction with other documentation such as gate house logs to prove, for example. a driver wasn’t moving at the time he is supposed to have hit that car.
hitch:
today at 1500 i was driving down the moterway at a steady 85km and did this for about 40 mins
can the digicard confirm this
No, it cannot.
No the card can’t but as I understand it, on a digital tachograph it could show through the tachograph head trace, what speed you were doing at a particular time, and for how long, well for the last 24 hours of use anyway (I could be wrong though).
206doorman:
How come that a tachograph record can be used against you in court,(byVOSA/police etc) but that you cannot use it as defence?
This has got to be a civil rights issue.
Needs to be tested in a high court I reckon.
If being used to prosecute you for hour’s infringements then the evidence is there in black and white. The hours can be totalled and it is plain to see if insufficient breaks have been taken or driving limits exceeded. These things are not dependent on location whereas driver’s usually want to use them as a defence against speeding but speeding is location dependent and the tacho doesn’t record location. With analogue tacho’s there is no guarantee the disc being produced was even recorded on the day it is dated. However tacho records have been successfully used for defence purposes, often in conjunction with other documentation such as gate house logs to prove, for example. a driver wasn’t moving at the time he is supposed to have hit that car.
Thanks Coffee, and I agree, although I forgot to mention that
our trucks are sat-tracked 24/7 and have digi-tachs.
Apparently, even though the company can show where I was at any
time, the digi-tach records cannot be used as defence in court in,say, speeding offences.
206doorman:
Thanks Coffee, and I agree, although I forgot to mention that our trucks are sat-tracked 24/7 and have digi-tachs.
Apparently, even though the company can show where I was at any time, the digi-tach records cannot be used as defence in court in,say, speeding offences.
Please correct me again if you disagree!
I have no idea how the digi tacho records speed so don’t know the reasons for not being able to use it for speeding defence.
im new to the digi card as well.
used it 3 times so far.
its easy to use. but.
if i went over my time or made some mistake hourswise today and the card holds a years records.
if i got prosecuted or parked up somewhere by vosa.
what happens on the continent if i am stopped.
is there a second prosecution?
how can i prove i was parked by vosa to take my required break.
i know the card will show the vosa parkup.
i am talking perhaps 3 months later.
in other words.
i commited an offence on 7th april08
will i get done by european police in august.
even if i had been done by vosa in may for arguments sake.
i like the digi,but after 28 days your still carrying around the bullet to shoot yourself in the foot.
can the card be cleared of evidence we dont want to be carrying around with us?
i would rather keep things right,but its not always possible and ■■■■ ups do occur.
as i said i am very ignorant to the ins and outs of the digi.
As an employer only has to keep printouts showing manual entry’s for 12 months, presumably you couldn’t be prosecuted after that time ?
As you’re only required to carry the printouts showing manual entries for a maximum of 29 days, would VOSA check any further back than that at a roadside check, be interesting to hear a VOSA employees view.
As far as penalties / prosecutions are concerned, you’re advise in the regulations to carry any proof of prosecutions ec’t with you until such a time that you can no longer be pulled for the same offence.
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006
Article 20
The driver shall keep any evidence provided by a Member
State concerning penalties imposed or the initiation of
proceedings until such time as the same infringement of this
Regulation can no longer lead to a second proceeding or
penalty pursuant to this Regulation.
Slightly off topic if an offence has been committed, how far back can this information be taken from the card and used? I believe the card will take up to 280 days of info?
At a roadside check there wouldn’t be much point going back more than the current day and the previous 28 (calendar days). As that is the period analogue records are required to be produced (if you were working for that entire period, days off excepted) it would be unfair to enforce anything else against drivers using digital records.
In reality, the Statute Barred date is; proceeding must be started in Court (by issuing a Summons) no later than 6 months after the offence was committed. So if a drivers hours offence from last June was found on your card to-day, you won’t be going to Court for it. The matter could still be referred to the Traffic Commissioner, but unlikely if no further offences in the following 10 months.
This is not the case with false records. Here the Stat Bar is 2 years.
I don’t know what time limits other enforcement bodies in Europe work to.
How come that a tachograph record can be used against you in court,(byVOSA/police etc) but that you cannot use it as defence?
This has got to be a civil rights issue.
Needs to be tested in a high court I reckon.
Records; digital or analogue can be used to prosecute drivers hours matters without any other corroborating data because the law says they can. If you think about it, the record shows you drove for 6 hours 10 minutes without taking a break. The limit is 4 hours 30 minutes, quite clearly you committed an offence. It would be up to you to show that the recording equipment that had been correctly installed and calibrated was faulty.
Tacho records cannot be used as the sole evidence in Court for a speeding prosecution or defence (at least not in the UK anyway). Whilst the equipment is pretty accurate (+/- 6Km/h of true road speed) there is nothing to say that the clock is accurate or indeed that false dates haven’t been put on the chart. Whilst digital tachos use UTC, there is quite a broad tolerance regarding the time that is being recorded and how far adrift from actual UTC it may be.
Cannot see how there are any Human Rights issues regarding drivers hours and the records produced by tachos.
The matter has been tested in all the Courts in the UK and the European Appeal Court.
if i went over my time or made some mistake hourswise today and the card holds a years records.
if i got prosecuted or parked up somewhere by vosa.
what happens on the continent if i am stopped.
is there a second prosecution?
how can i prove i was parked by vosa to take my required break.
i know the card will show the vosa parkup.
i am talking perhaps 3 months later.
If you get parked up by VOSA you will get a written Prohibition Notice giving details of the offence you have been prohibited for. Basically keep this for the production period (1+28 days) and produce the Notice if you get stopped abroad. That should prevent you ‘getting done’ a second time. However, it is your responsibility to produce the Notice. If you get taken to Court for something in the UK keep the Fine Notice you get from the Court. This can be a problem at the moment due to the time lag between offence and Court appearance. It should change early next year when Fixed Penalties and Graduated Deposits come into the UK.
As you’re only required to carry the printouts showing manual entries for a maximum of 29 days, would VOSA check any further back than that at a roadside check, be interesting to hear a VOSA employees view
Kind of gave the answer to this one earlier, but in truth it is unlikely that Examiners would go back more than 28+1, at the roadside. However, if you find a load of things, matters are usually sent for ‘follow-up’ which means an Examiner visits the Operator and looks at records there to see if the problem has been ‘on going’ for some time.
if an offence has been commited, how far back can this information be taken from the card and used? I believe the card will take up to 280 days of info?
