Looking at that list of countries , I can’t help but wonder what a country such as Nepal for example , a country with an area marginally more than half the area of the U.K. and a population of less than half that of the U.K. can possibly be doing to the atmosphere in order to find themselves listed as creating between 7 - 10 times the amount of pollution judged acceptable according to WHO guidelines … not unless they’re including prayer flags and used discarded bog roll on Everest into the equation that is .
Or are we to believe everything that everyone tells us without question ?
Zac_A:
I’m happy for us to be ■■■■■■■ into the wind if it means me and my children have cleaner air to breathe than these third world countries. iqair.com/in-en/world-most- … -countries
Internal combustion engines are now as clean as it gets.Admittedly knocking diesel engines on the head would further fix that problem.
But the issue is supposedly all about CO2 not clean air right ?.You know the inert gas that trees turn into the Oxygen that we breathe.
You and your children should be more worried about living in a developed country which is being driven back to the stone age so that our fuel resources can be exported to cheap labour sweatshop economies.
dave docwra:
I think we may be looking at fuel alternatives as we move goods at the moment,
I think the whole industry will change in a very short time & it will be towards
electric vehicles, there will be some that will have to use some form of alternative
possibly hydrogen or even back to LPG.
I can see a lot of inter depot trunking along with local drop off areas, where local vehicles
would complete the delivery could be the norm, trunk vehicles could be hot swapped on
trunk routes, a lot of the warehouses that are used these days have massive roof space
to allow for solar panels, also natural gas generators can be used on site with cleaner
enviromental exhaust output which would take some strain off the grid.
I was watching a video the other day where the truck battery pack could be swapped in
fifteen minutes which could possibly allow trunk vehicles to do return journeys.
Cheers for your thoughts Dave, I think we’ll have a mix of either diesel and hydrogen powered vehicles or diesel and electric battery powered vehicles. I just can’t see the diesel engine exiting stage left if you what I mean.
“or diesel and electric battery powered vehicles”
Yes Patrick a sensible option during this transition period with Scania and Daf already in the game, Electric powered in LEZs and inter city diesel regenerating of the battery pack daf.co.uk/en-gb/trucks/alte … c-vehicles scania.com/group/en/home/pr … truck.html
In time and IMHO there will be a way to convert the abundant fossil and mineral fuels cleanly which apart from wind, wave and solar are and will be needed for the increased demand for electricity.
Oily
This set-up makes actually more sense Oily, electric in urban areas and using the diesel engine on the motorway. Odd that it’s not promoted a bit more…?
ERF-Continental:
On goods transports…you’re aiming on…we are to early to judge as governments and several (inter-)national facilities have
quite a backlog and they don’t know the outcome themselves…I myself would hould my own breath (investments) till Euro 10?
Euro 7 is expected to be the last iteration when it’s implemented in 2025, The new Euro 7 emission standards for new heavy duty trucks which will come into effect in July 2027 is expected to be announced next month as to how strict they will be for trucks/buses etc. Daimler trucks has announced an end to development of combustion engines for trucks & zero emission trucks will account for 60% of total sales in 2030, Scania have announced 50% of their truck sales will be battery electric in 2030, MAN aims for 60% of urban & regional trucks & 40% of long haul trucks by 2030, Renault aims to be 35% battery electric by then. dieselnet.com/news/2022/11eu.php transportenvironment.org/ch … standards/
Those are quite the claims they’re making! Not entirely sure if they’re actually going to deliver on that one, as it’s only seven years from now.
I’m with ERF Continental, it’s more likely that we’ll see a Euro 8 and 9 version of the diesel engine by then.
The Euro 7 emission standard will see all light & heavy duty road freight vehicles included in the emission standard for the first time ever when implemented in July 2025.
The financial penalties for missing emission limits are enormous for truck manufacturers, It’s currently set at in the Commission proposal. (New updated emission standards announcement is due in February as I mentioned in my other post) The excess emission premium for the period 2025 to 2029 is set at €4,250/g CO2/tkm), instead of €6,800 in the Commission proposal. From 2030, the excess emission premium is set at €6 800/g CO2/tkm.
By 2025 truck emissions have to be cleaner by 15% from today & 30% cleaner by 2030. europarl.europa.eu/RegData/ … S_BRI(2018628268_EN.pdf
Truck manufacturers are well behind where they need to be for the Euro 7 emission standard & most still don’t meet the Euro 6 emission standard. transportenvironment.org/di … -the-road/
Let’s not forget that they made giant leaps forward though, as Euro 1 only came in place in '92. Maybe in terms of what is capable, we’ve reached an end, as the injection pressure can’t go any higher?
lancpudn:
HVS (Hydrogen vehicle systems) are developing a autonomous hydrogen HGV “The firm’s Hub2Hub consortium will create the tractor unit, which will begin vehicles trials in 2024, in partnership with UK retailer Asda.”
“The first hydrogen-electric HGV prototype will be fitted with a driver’s cab and tested on the road in autonomous operation, using the Fusion Processing’s Automated Drive System, CAVStar, with a human safety driver at the wheel. A second prototype will have the driver’s cab removed and replaced by an aerodynamic fairing.” commercialfleet.org/news/tr … -with-asda
Sounds like a recipe for disaster - two relatively untested technologies together in the same vehicle, let loose on public roads. The possibilities are endless, especially when prototype 2 comes along.
And for the ones that can’t get used to the idea that we’ll have no engine noise anymore in the foreseeable future, here’s a ■■■■■■■ purring away youtube.com/watch?v=9ThzIEWOfEE
Regardless of whether battery power, hydrogen fuel cells or other types of propulsion are used -the constantly tightening legislation on vehicles is mind boggling - and has been so for many years - but one thing that seams to be overlooked by the ‘powers that be’ who ever they are - is that none of the trucks are running around empty ( for any longer than is necessary) - ie; they are all full of freight of one sort or another, and more & more of that freight is either single use crap from China, packaging demanded by supermarkets, and strawberries air freighted from California in December.
Sorry for the rant - but why does the road haulage industry - and vehicles in general, have to bear the brunt of legislation, when other industries - ie; retail in various forms, from supermarkets to Jeff Bezos & Amazon can pretty much get away unscathed.
Where is the legislation - or even the enticement to produce, and buy local products, to eat seasonal foods, to do away with unnecessary plastic packaging in the supermarket?
It’s a no brainer to me that steps like the above would reduce emissions simply by reducing the distances that freight travels - wouldn’t do any harm for local industries too, and lets face it, we all ate seasonally once upon a time - it certainly didn’t do us any harm…
Carryfast:
But the issue is supposedly all about CO2 not clean air right ?.You know the inert gas that trees turn into the Oxygen that we breathe.
You and your children should be more worried about living in a developed country which is being driven back to the stone age so that our fuel resources can be exported to cheap labour sweatshop economies.
Oh yeah, I forgot, CO2 isn’t actually one of the reasons that Venus has a temperature of about 500 degrees C is it?
For the record, CO2 is NOT “inert”, try adding a CO2 fire extinguisher to a metal fire and see what happens, not only does it not put the fire out, it makes it burn more fiercely. youtube.com/watch?v=kEN-h5FN3yk
Carryfast:
But the issue is supposedly all about CO2 not clean air right ?.You know the inert gas that trees turn into the Oxygen that we breathe.
You and your children should be more worried about living in a developed country which is being driven back to the stone age so that our fuel resources can be exported to cheap labour sweatshop economies.
Oh yeah, I forgot, CO2 isn’t actually one of the reasons that Venus has a temperature of about 500 degrees C is it?
For the record, CO2 is NOT “inert”, try adding a CO2 fire extinguisher to a metal fire and see what happens, not only does it not put the fire out, it makes it burn more fiercely. youtube.com/watch?v=kEN-h5FN3yk
Venus has a temperature of 500C because it’s 30 million miles closer to the Sun than Earth and for the same reason that the top of Mont Blanc is a lot colder than Chamonix in July or the top of Kilimanjaro v the bottom.
So tell us why is Mars much colder than Earth.
As for the rest good luck with trying to put out an electrical fire with water instead of CO2 or having any oxygen to breathe without photosynthesis.
The fact is it ain’t toxic and if it was going to cook Earth then it would have cooked Mars first.
The ICCT draft due out on the 14th February as it stands for heavy-duty vehicles looks like e-fuels will play no part in the commissions draft except for fire brigade & military vehicles. electrive.com/2023/02/08/ne … emissions/
lancpudn:
The ICCT draft due out on the 14th February as it stands for heavy-duty vehicles looks like e-fuels will play no part in the commissions draft except for fire brigade & military vehicles. electrive.com/2023/02/08/ne … emissions/
The EU commission laid out new truck & bus emission targets yesterday.
“The EU Commission’s expected draft legislation on emissions of heavy goods vehicles has arrived, requiring new trucks to cut emissions by 90% by 2040 and all new city buses to have zero emissions from 2030. Still, the draft falls slightly short of delivering a fully effective ban of ICE trucks.”
“the EU Commission proposes that new heavy trucks and buses must cut nearly all CO2 emissions by 2040. The proposal also replaces the EU’s current shorter-term requirement that manufacturers must ensure a 30% reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030 compared to 2019/2020 levels. The new interim targets call for reducing tailpipe emissions by 45% by 2030 and 65% by 2035.” electrive.com/2023/02/14/eu … n-targets/
lancpudn:
The ICCT draft due out on the 14th February as it stands for heavy-duty vehicles looks like e-fuels will play no part in the commissions draft except for fire brigade & military vehicles. electrive.com/2023/02/08/ne … emissions/
The EU commission laid out new truck & bus emission targets yesterday.
“The EU Commission’s expected draft legislation on emissions of heavy goods vehicles has arrived, requiring new trucks to cut emissions by 90% by 2040 and all new city buses to have zero emissions from 2030. Still, the draft falls slightly short of delivering a fully effective ban of ICE trucks.”
“the EU Commission proposes that new heavy trucks and buses must cut nearly all CO2 emissions by 2040. The proposal also replaces the EU’s current shorter-term requirement that manufacturers must ensure a 30% reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030 compared to 2019/2020 levels. The new interim targets call for reducing tailpipe emissions by 45% by 2030 and 65% by 2035.” electrive.com/2023/02/14/eu … n-targets/
There’s nothing in that which puts alternative fuelled ICE powered vehicles out of the frame.
My money would be on LPG/LNG/Hydrogen fuelled two stroke engines with electric turbocharging rather than EV trucks.
The only surprise is why they aren’t already here.
The hydrogen storage tanks have to be circular because of the high pressure which then limits the spaces where they can be fixed. It left the pick-up truck with a three-foot bed. The truck has 40kg’s of storage with a 300 mile limit & the cost of hydrogen is $36/kg, So that 40kg costs $1,440 to go 300 miles
That’s just plain ridiculous.
Heavy duty trucks will have the same problem with storage tanks having to be circular because of the high pressure.
Would the Toyota Mirai be the most credible hydrogen car currently? It has been around a few years now, although due to fuel availability I guess, not widespread.
Yes they’ve recently brought out the Mkll Mirai with lack lustre sales, Toyota said recently that the Mirai hadn’t been successful & hydrogen was only good if the vehicle was going from point A to point B locations like freight so they’re concentrating on using their hydrogen technology in trucks from now on.
Hyundai’s new class 8/1 Excient hydrogen truck looks as ungainly as an electric truck, Not much room for a sleeper cab & only a single place to refuel in California.
