British jobs for British workers.
Your fishing bait stinks mate ,
No self respecting time served driver would answer those questions !
The only people who want extended hours are the greedy corporate types and some London tipper firm again just greedy
Driver shortage was dreamt up by big companies and government to flood the market with labour and drive wages down
One of the biggest problems with the industry is and has been alluded to already here by several members is the working hours and the fact haulage companies take advantage of this.
Legally we can work up to 15 hours a day 3 days a week and having 9 hours off in between before doing it again. A lot of haulage firms take this to mean that its acceptable to “plan” drivers on 15 hour days, rather than the 15 hour rule being there as a buffer in case something goes wrong and the driver gets held up.
The whole industry is a contradiction in terms. Sit on any CPC course and you will be preached to about tiredness, fatigue and driver responsibility. Yet we have an industry that just assumes those hours are and should be the norm. Sadly though, if you speak to people in the industry from planners, management, office staff and even drivers you are met with the response of “It’s transport” or “nature of the industry”. Until these dinosaur views change across the board then nothing will change with it.
DrJJ:
Zac_A:
Did DrJJ get permission to post this from the Mods?Hi Zac, I had an exchange with your forum manager prior to putting out our request. Juliet
OK, so no problem there, but you have made one massive procedural error which has sunk your analytical ship before it has even left port: Not correctly researching how to approach your test subjects in a manner most likely to facilitate co-operation.
The HGV community has an inherent bias against “the authorities”, for clearly demonstrable and understandable reasons. Anyone who appears to “working with/for the authorities” are naturally subject to the same bias.
Yes, your missive would not have looked unacceptable in discussions with your peer group, but that acceptable appearance does not translate to a different segment of society. To maximise your liklihood of participation within your subject group, you really needed to speak to them in relatable language, for this you would have been wise to consult someone within your subject group.
As you can clearly see, your request for participation has fallen on stoney ground, and I am afraid that is due to your own procedural error.
Zac_A:
DrJJ:
Zac_A:
Did DrJJ get permission to post this from the Mods?Hi Zac, I had an exchange with your forum manager prior to putting out our request. Juliet
OK, so no problem there, but you have made one massive procedural error which has sunk your analytical ship before it has even left port: Not correctly researching how to approach your test subjects in a manner most likely to facilitate co-operation.
The HGV community has an inherent bias against “the authorities”, for clearly demonstrable and understandable reasons. Anyone who appears to “working with/for the authorities” are naturally subject to the same bias.
Yes, your missive would not have looked unacceptable in discussions with your peer group, but that acceptable appearance does not translate to a different segment of society. To maximise your liklihood of participation within your subject group, you really needed to speak to them in relatable language, for this you would have been wise to consult someone within your subject group.
As you can clearly see, your request for participation has fallen on stoney ground, and I am afraid that is due to your own procedural error.
Crickets…tumbleweed…
I do not understand the reluctance to engage with this survey?
Surely it is better to communicate through the channels that are listening that, No, you don’t want extended drivers hours. Rather than the “authorities” thinking, well they didn’t kick up much of a fuss when we asked them so we presume they aren’t bothered/will just go along with extended drivers hours.
stu675:
I do not understand the reluctance to engage with this survey?
Surely it is better to communicate through the channels that are listening that, No, you don’t want extended drivers hours. Rather than the “authorities” thinking, well they didn’t kick up much of a fuss when we asked them so we presume they aren’t bothered/will just go along with extended drivers hours.
Because the subtle odeur of decaying rattus norvegicus still prevails would be my guess,to say nothing of the parallel whiff of elephants in the room issues that would obviously and radically improve the drivers lot from the perennial burdens of long hours,dwindling parking availability and abysmal refreshment provision ? Something rodentic/piscatorian with this probe from the good doctor imho ?
stu675:
I do not understand the reluctance to engage with this survey?
Surely it is better to communicate through the channels that are listening that, No, you don’t want extended drivers hours. Rather than the “authorities” thinking, well they didn’t kick up much of a fuss when we asked them so we presume they aren’t bothered/will just go along with extended drivers hours.
You really think they will listen and take on board,.with a result of improving terms for us?? 
Get real mate.
They will do,.can do.and do do whatever tf they want. 
If they did actually care about our welfare,.they would improve the hours by reducing them,.and have done it years ago…Health and Safety my ■■■■ arse. 
On the other hand we have clowns who would do 23 hour days if it was within the regs,.and they are the type they would rather listen to.
Strictly Private and Confidential
Dear Secretary of State
Thank you for your invitation to respond to your department’s investigation into the effectiveness of the temporary measures introduced to extend drivers hours of work in recent trials.
We are happy to report that analysis of data from these trials has revealed the potential for very considerable financial benefits to our collective members, showing a marked increase in profits as a result. The ability to schedule drivers for extra hours of driving time on a permanent basis, allied to your recent approval for the extension of use of longer semitrailers will allow our members to increase productivity by a most noticeable percentage. This is naturally a matter of national importance and clearly of concern to your Party, with expected favourable results predicted to be published in the run up to the next election.
We forecast to be able to reduce fleet size considerably with the bonus of shedding driving staff. We will be able to return to our preferred scenario of a surplus of drivers looking for work. This in turn will have even greater benefits for our members and of course our shareholders. We have found the recent historic driver shortage has had a negative effect upon profits with outrageous demands for higher wages having to be met. A surplus of drivers will mean that we will be able to offer a ‘take it or leave it salary’ for the increased working week. It would be better still if we could get to a level where the taxpayer is subsidising our operations with top ups via the benefit system.
We would also urge you most strongly to reverse your decision regarding increased weights for longer semi-trailers, 48 tonnes would retain a margin of axle weight capability of the current trailer bogie arrangements while allowing us an extra four tonnes of payload. The benefits of this cannot be emphasised too highly.
We would like to congratulate you on your department’s stance regarding transport workers’ wages.
Finally, and in confidence, we would like to put forward an offer regarding school fees.
Yours faithfully,
I Loaded, Confederation of British Industry
I Greedy, British Retail Consortium
I Shifty, Road Haulage Association
I Moneybags, Logistics UK
DrJJ:
We want to talk to HGV drivers who may have been affected by some of the measures brought in by the Government to enable logistics operators to temporarily extend working hours and changes to urban delivery times between 2020 and 2022.If you were affected, then we would like 30 minutes of your time to hear about your experiences.
Why?
The Department for Transport (DfT) want to know how these measures affected HGV drivers.
The Centre for Transport & Society at the UWE Bristol are conducting the research on behalf of the DfT, and we need you to tell us about your experiences. Your views will contribute important messages in our report to the DfT. We will not identify you as an individual in our report.How can you can help us?
We would like to talk with you either using MS Teams, or we can call you on your preferred phone number. If you take part, we will send you a £10 ‘love to shop’ voucher.How do you take part?
Register your interest using this sign-up form link or scan the QR code at the bottom. uwe.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/S … Y4fXfZkhD0When do you need to be available?
The sign-up form asks for your availability between 29th June and 15th July. You can indicate your preferred days (weekdays and Saturdays offered) and times. The researcher will confirm the interview day and time via email.What will happen to your personal details?
Your personal details will be used only for the purpose of contacting you for an interview and will not be shared outside of the research team. The research has been approved by the UWE faculty ethics committee. There is a link to more information and the data privacy note on first page of the sign-up form. We encourage you to read all the information before signing up.Any further questions?
Please contact Dr Juliet Jain Juliet.Jain@uwe.ac.uk or leave a message on the forum board below.0
===========================
This topic is OK’ed by Admin. dd.
@ Dr JJ.
You will note there is a general air of trepidation and hostility towards all this,.and I sincerely hope the appropriate authorities that have instigated all this stuff pick up on it…not that they would care.
We as members of this industry at the ‘sharp end’ of it have been ignored and abused for as long as I remember.
You may think the word ‘abused’ may sound a tad dramatic and ott, but it is nevertheless true.
For years we have been left to just get on with it,.and make the best of a bad job.
For example…
Suitable parking places that we need by LAW to comply with THEIR rules and regs that THEY set out, have drastically dwindled over the years.
Parking places with basic human rights where there are toilets, showers and places to eat, which you would think would be something you should just take for granted,.are few and far between…especially with all the ‘NIMBY’ councils closing in town truck parks,.(of which there were many when I started this job.)
We had all the political rhetoric and b/s a couple of years ago when the supposed ‘‘driver shortage’’ 
was highlighted, to as far as being the main item on the national news.
They were going to do this that and the ■■■■ other to attract new blood and make the job easier, by mass investment in driver roadside facilities and parking sites…
What was actually done in reality?
Yep, precisely Jack Sh.
So as I said…‘Ignored’.
Drivers hours for a second example of my point…
Already over complicated,.already excessive in terms of hours allowed to work,.and if you take note of the minimal rest periods in conjunction with the maximum daily spreadovers, that are not only allowed but encouraged (and in many cases made compulsory to many drivers) , anybody with a bit of common sense can clearly see that not only does it bring up a contravention to health and safety (especially when you chuck in the mix being in charge of 44 tonnes on busy roads,) , but it also illustrates a working pattern that belongs to the 1930s,…not the 21st Century
But then,.as if you could not make it up, it is not only ignored, but now being apparentlly considered to be actually increased 
…
As I said ‘Abused’
Then to add insult to injury… they,.the powers that be,.are now wanting us to co.operate with it, presumably to the point of condoning and agreeing with it.
On the flip side though, the sad thing about it though, given the usual true to form gullibility, ignorance,.and subservience of many drivers, not to mention the inability to stick together as one to improve t.s & c.s…some ACTUALLY WILL co.operate AND agree to it…
So all in all, good luck with it all,.and be sure to pass my comments on to the appropriate authorities…as if.
I’m sure at least one driver on here will sell his soul for a 10 quid shopping voucher. …but speaking as a long term driver who has witnessed all the crap, in terms of unfairness, over regulation,and especially the general and typical ■■■■ taking by firms and employers in the industry (which constantly increases)…
I’M OOT. 
I look forward to your reaction and opinion to my reply to you,.as I am confident that I speak for MANY drivers who feel the same way.
Over to you…
robroy:
DrJJ:
We want to talk to HGV drivers who may have been affected by some of the measures brought in by the Government to enable logistics operators to temporarily extend working hours and changes to urban delivery times between 2020 and 2022.If you were affected, then we would like 30 minutes of your time to hear about your experiences.
Why?
The Department for Transport (DfT) want to know how these measures affected HGV drivers.
The Centre for Transport & Society at the UWE Bristol are conducting the research on behalf of the DfT, and we need you to tell us about your experiences. Your views will contribute important messages in our report to the DfT. We will not identify you as an individual in our report.How can you can help us?
We would like to talk with you either using MS Teams, or we can call you on your preferred phone number. If you take part, we will send you a £10 ‘love to shop’ voucher.How do you take part?
Register your interest using this sign-up form link or scan the QR code at the bottom. uwe.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/S … Y4fXfZkhD0When do you need to be available?
The sign-up form asks for your availability between 29th June and 15th July. You can indicate your preferred days (weekdays and Saturdays offered) and times. The researcher will confirm the interview day and time via email.What will happen to your personal details?
Your personal details will be used only for the purpose of contacting you for an interview and will not be shared outside of the research team. The research has been approved by the UWE faculty ethics committee. There is a link to more information and the data privacy note on first page of the sign-up form. We encourage you to read all the information before signing up.Any further questions?
Please contact Dr Juliet Jain Juliet.Jain@uwe.ac.uk or leave a message on the forum board below.0
===========================
This topic is OK’ed by Admin. dd.
@ Dr JJ.
You will note there is a general air of trepidation and hostility towards all this,.and I sincerely hope the appropriate authorities that have instigated all this stuff pick up on it…not that they would care.
We as members of this industry at the ‘sharp end’ of it have been ignored and abused for as long as I remember.
You may think the word ‘abused’ may sound a tad dramatic and ott, but it is nevertheless true.
For years we have been left to just get on with it,.and make the best of a bad job.For example…
Suitable parking places that we need by LAW to comply with THEIR rules and regs that THEY set out, have drastically dwindled over the years.
Parking places with basic human rights where there are toilets, showers and places to eat, which you would think would be something you should just take for granted,.are few and far between…especially with all the ‘NIMBY’ councils closing in town truck parks,.(of which there were many when I started this job.)We had all the political rhetoric and b/s a couple of years ago when the supposed ‘‘driver shortage’’
They were going to do this that and the [zb] other to attract new blood and make the job easier, by mass investment in driver roadside facilities and parking sites…
What was actually done in reality?
Yep, precisely Jack Sh.So as I said…‘Ignored’.
Drivers hours for a second example of my point…
Already over complicated,.already excessive in terms of hours allowed to work,.and if you take note of the minimal rest periods in conjunction with the maximum daily spreadovers, that are not only allowed but encouraged (and in many cases made compulsory to many drivers) , anybody with a bit of common sense can clearly see that not only does it bring up a contravention to health and safety (especially when you chuck in the mix being in charge of 44 tonnes on busy roads,) , but it also illustrates a working pattern that belongs to the 1930s,…not the 21st Century
But then,.as if you could not make it up, it is not only ignored, but now being apparentlly considered to be actually increased
As I said ‘Abused’
Then to add insult to injury… they,.the powers that be,.are now wanting us to co.operate with it, presumably to the point of condoning and agreeing with it.
On the flip side though, the sad thing about it though, given the usual true to form gullibility, ignorance,.and subservience of many drivers, not to mention the inability to stick together as one to improve t.s & c.s…some ACTUALLY WILL co.operate AND agree to it…
So all in all, good luck with it all,.and be sure to pass my comments on to the appropriate authorities…as if.
I’m sure at least one driver on here will sell his soul for a 10 quid shopping voucher.
I’M OOT.I look forward to your reaction and opinion to my reply to you,.as I am confident that I speak for MANY drivers who feel the same way.
Over to you…
Spot on
Robroy speaks for the vast majority of us, eloquently and lucidly, congrats on an excellent summary.
The powers that be may not remember this but back in the supposed bad old days before tachographs we were limited to a 12.5 hour working day maximum and as he noted we had facilities in many towns, since we joined the EEC and had to standardise to superior safety standards by being allowed to work up to 15 hours and more if double manned.
We do not want longer hours, thankfully many of us work for more enlightened employers who themselves don’t want us working all hours the good Lord sends either, our industry doesn’t want or need apparently legal hours fiddles and exceptions to suit big business and their politician cronies.
Robroy is also quite right that the headline articles about providing better facilities for drivers has, as anyone involved in this industry would have known, proved to be nothing other than a polticians promise, ie worth the square root of bugger all.
When there’s clown operators paying hgv drivers just over minimum wage for what is most certainly a skilled profession then the long hours culture will continue. Of course if we were paid what we are worth and the whole industry worked a 40 hour week then the country would be even more shafted than it is now.
Ex minister George Eustice believes fruit/produce picking is skilled employment, I mean seriously! No doubt soon if not already these turnip and carrot pickers will be earning more than truckers.
robbo99.:
When there’s clown operators paying hgv drivers just over minimum wage for what is most certainly a skilled profession then the long hours culture will continue. Of course if we were paid what we are worth and the whole industry worked a 40 hour week then the country would be even more shafted than it is now.Ex minister George Eustice believes fruit/produce picking is skilled employment, I mean seriously! No doubt soon if not already these turnip and carrot pickers will be earning more than truckers.
Yep as said many times ‘‘they’’ only call you professional, if you are in front of them in court, or other occasions when you have done something wrong…,in the context of …‘‘You should know better, you’re a professional’’.
Any other time, and as well as other bodies of authority, you are anything ranging from a no mark to sh on their shoes to them.
Still no reply to me from o/p to points I put to him/her.
Did anybody (or will anybody admit to ) enter into this?
Thinking they did not get the responses they wanted or expected on here anyhoo.
Juddian:
Robroy speaks for the vast majority of us, eloquently and lucidly, congrats on an excellent summary.[b]The powers that be may not remember this but back in the supposed bad old days before tachographs we were limited to a 12.5 hour working day maximum and as he noted we had facilities in many towns, [/b]since we joined the EEC and had to standardise to superior safety standards by being allowed to work up to 15 hours and more if double manned.
We do not want longer hours, thankfully many of us work for more enlightened employers who themselves don’t want us working all hours the good Lord sends either, our industry doesn’t want or need apparently legal hours fiddles and exceptions to suit big business and their politician cronies.
Robroy is also quite right that the headline articles about providing better facilities for drivers has, as anyone involved in this industry would have known, proved to be nothing other than a polticians promise, ie worth the square root of bugger all.
Whilst that is true, you will also remember, that those rules were habitually broken, in fact that is why the automatic tachograph was introduced, to combat the habitual, and hard to detect, fraudulent time recording in logbooks 
As for facilities, are you referring to the ‘hot bunking’ in flea infested cafe/truckstops? Or the single outdoor toilet behind such establishments? I know of very few roadside facilities providing showers, apart from some trucks tops, and MSA’s.
What little, of poor quality, that was provided, has certainly been reduced. What has improved to no end, is the quality of the trucks we drive. Ample (standing) room, air suspension, night heaters, fridges and microwaves, decent beds, to be fair spending four nights or so, in a modern truck, is preferable over sleeping in a doss house.
What needs to be addressed, is remuneration, and a different approach to driver hours. Distance drivers, who have virtually no interaction with the load, can do ten hour drive days, with two one hour breaks, and still have a 12 hour daily rest. (Local) multidrop drivers on the other hand, need different limits, like a 20 minute break every 2 hours, or such, because at the moment, they could work 15 hours, with only a 45 minute break…
We need to look at the now, and the future. Not at the rose tinted past…
the nodding donkey:
Juddian:
Robroy speaks for the vast majority of us, eloquently and lucidly, congrats on an excellent summary.[b]The powers that be may not remember this but back in the supposed bad old days before tachographs we were limited to a 12.5 hour working day maximum and as he noted we had facilities in many towns, [/b]since we joined the EEC and had to standardise to superior safety standards by being allowed to work up to 15 hours and more if double manned.
We do not want longer hours, thankfully many of us work for more enlightened employers who themselves don’t want us working all hours the good Lord sends either, our industry doesn’t want or need apparently legal hours fiddles and exceptions to suit big business and their politician cronies.
Robroy is also quite right that the headline articles about providing better facilities for drivers has, as anyone involved in this industry would have known, proved to be nothing other than a polticians promise, ie worth the square root of bugger all.Whilst that is true, you will also remember, that those rules were habitually broken, in fact that is why the automatic tachograph was introduced, to combat the habitual, and hard to detect, fraudulent time recording in logbooks
As for facilities, are you referring to the ‘hot bunking’ in flea infested cafe/truckstops? Or the single outdoor toilet behind such establishments? I know of very few roadside facilities providing showers, apart from some trucks tops, and MSA’s.
What little, of poor quality, that was provided, has certainly been reduced. What has improved to no end, is the quality of the trucks we drive. Ample (standing) room, air suspension, night heaters, fridges and microwaves, decent beds, to be fair spending four nights or so, in a modern truck, is preferable over sleeping in a doss house.
What needs to be addressed, is remuneration, and a different approach to driver hours. Distance drivers, who have virtually no interaction with the load, can do ten hour drive days, with two one hour breaks, and still have a 12 hour daily rest. (Local) multidrop drivers on the other hand, need different limits, like a 20 minute break every 2 hours, or such, because at the moment, they could work 15 hours, with only a 45 minute break…
We need to look at the now, and the future. Not at the rose tinted past…
I agree with a lot of that, and definitely the revision of drivers hours for one, I also agreed that driver abuse of the law is to blame for the rules today, and rightly so…but looking at the past is the only way you can make a comparison in order to try and get improvements .
Sure there were a lot of sh holes impersonating driver’s digs,.and I personally avoided them at that time, as I was too fond of cleanliness and hygiene (despite popular perceptions of trampers)
I went for the makeshift bed across the seats option, I would not do it today, but it was all we knew in those days,.and as you say truck quality and in cab facilities have vastly improved to another dimension.
The difference in those days, and unlike today’s tramping job, was you were not faced with the only options of either maybe a crapoy overpriced MSA, a totally unsuitable ■■■■ hole crime ridden lay by, or an ind est where you may get robbed or a parking ticket, (or both )… or one of the FEW sparsely laid out suitable truckstops in the country, you could park virtually anywhere.
MOST cities had numerous town designated truck parks, most large towns also had one.
I remember rows of trucks parked down side roads in parts of London., and there was always a toilet nearby to get a wash.
Adjacent to those parks were usual town facilities…pubs, cafes, shops, supermarkets, so the local economies also benefitted from visiting truck drivers…(.btw I get the argument of mess left by one or two certain anti social uneducated arse holes amongst us, but on the whole we treated their towns with respect.
So not so much rose coloured specs ND mate, but actual reality that I can substantiate , …as I was there.
Still no reply to my original post from the o/p…I wonder how it has gone and if anybody on here sold their soul for an Amazon voucher.?
robroy:
Still no reply to my original post from the o/p
Mate…
Don’t hold yer breath.
They’ve walked away because like everyone else, they don’t really care.
Just seen this…I walked away in September 2020 because of all the silly, stupid rules that were brought in by the Govt. and companies.
It was just pathetic in every each way, implemented by those who had no understanding and worse…By those who did not appreciate that we are human beings, it was the worst assault on my person that I could ever imagine.
We were already treated as Lepers and I got that, because I understand others ignorance, despite being University educated and having being a professional ■■■■■■-analyst.
But the measures brought in were beyond inhuman and it was the last straw for me…So much so, that I left the UK in 2021.
The people of the UK are spectacularly spineless in their approach to life and all it has to offer, so very sad to see.
Stalin would have been proud of the majority populace of the UK!