I would like to ask.
What are the KSI statistics involved in cyclist crashes with LGV’s and what about cyclist crashes with cars?
I believe car drivers may be more unaware of cyclists than LGV drivers.
Perhaps this could be answered BillChi
**:D :smiley: :smiley: Welcome cyman :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:**
         
cyman:
As a warning to wagon drivers, if you see road side signs ‘’ Cycle Race Ahead’’
or the like, please be extra vigilant.
It maybe possible that some interesting manoeuvres may come your way !.
To be honest, I would say that the majority are 
Happy Keith:
MADBAZ:
‘…EVERY CYCLIST AND EVERYONE WHO RIDES A BICYCLE KNOWS THAT UNDERTAKING STATIC/SLOW MOVING TRAFFIC IS BLOODY DANGEROUS…’How do they know? Not if they have never consulted the Highway Code …which, let’s face it, is only a code & not a law to understand/comply with.
Also, the Junior Highway Code is almost impossible to source now, having effectively gone out of publication …I know, because I’ve tried getting one for a ‘road-curious’ sprog.
Common sense, thats how, thats something that you don’t need a risk analysis, procedures, or even to call in a consultant for. If they don’t use it then they shouldn’t be on the road.
Every road user knows how squishy they are, with HGV drivers probably being the least squishy and should avoid squishing anything else (BMW’s are fair game though ), at the other end cyclists/pedestrians should aviod situations where it’s possible to get squished, nice and simple innit.
The Highway Code by the way isn’t law but it can be used as evidence in a court, what is law is the RTA, what the HC is based upon, and all road users are supposed to comply with that!
chippy:
I would like to ask.What are the KSI statistics involved in cyclist crashes with LGV’s and what about cyclist crashes with cars?
I believe car drivers may be more unaware of cyclists than LGV drivers.
Perhaps this could be answered BillChi
Speaking only of London, cycling fatals, around 50% are LGVs. Since 2000, the average has been 8/9 a year cyclists killed by LGV collisions.
So far this year, unofficial figures show all but 1 cyclists fatals, the other vehicle was HGV. So even tho there heaps more cars, vans etc than LGVs, LGVs are over-represented.
A big factor may be that average vehicle speeds in Central London (which is where the vast majority of cycle journeys are) are so low (below 12 mph) that a collision with anything other than LGV is unlikely to result in critical injuries.
A lot of you think I am very militant, and in particular, that the LGV/HGV/lorry ban thing is barking mad.
Just to enrage you even more, I would like to draw your attention to this study published in the British Medical Journal in 1994, called ‘Deaths of Cyclists in London’, which says that ‘the risk of heavy goods vehicles being involved in accidents in which cyclists die in inner London can be estimated at five times that of buses, 14 times that of light goods vehicles, and 30 times that of cars.’ The study also suggested that until ‘the factors leading to this excess risk are understood, a ban on heavy goods vehicles in urban areas should be considered.’
Authors: K Gilbert, M McCarthy
Public Health, Camden and Islington Health Authority
On the other side, a few of you have raised the question of whether enough is being done to make cyclists aware of the problem. Well, I reckon that I have done more than most. A few years ago most cyclists would have identified pedestrians are being the most dangerous thing on the road. Which is obviously completely wrong. The single most dangerous category of vehicle on the road in London, if you are a cyclist, is a lorry, whether it’s turning left or not (around a quarter of cyclist/hgv fatals examined in 2003 study neither was turning, both were going straight on). A lot more people on bicycles know now that.
I am genuinely interested in engaging with you guys to try and work out what best can be done, and I don’t think that I have been prejudicial - indeed I started one of my most recent posts on the subject with the words:
"Well, I don’t want to pre-judge any of the 3 collisions that happened in the past week, for a start. It’s too easy to say, based on hearsay evidence, that one or the other party was to blame. ’
Yet I find that a majority of you on here have done exactly that, despite being presented with facts that contradict your assumptions.
I ask again, honestly, what more can be done? Do any of you have any examples of training that is there that you would like to see, or training that is there that is a waste of time?
gardun:
BTW - how did your bike get from the Raleigh factory to the shop? A delivery rider? I think not!
A cart and horse?
Who, truck driver or cyclist, has been deemed responsible by the police/courts for most of the collisions between the two 
ROG:
Who, truck driver or cyclist, has been deemed responsible by the police/courts for most of the collisions between the two
In all honesty, I don’t enough stats to answer that conclusively.
Of the ones that made it to court, that I happen to know about, the charge has nearly always been careless, and perhaps slightly more than half of those, the driver was found guilty. It’s very difficult to get hold of that sort of information, and even when the London Road Safety Unit did a study of the 40-odd hgv/cyclist fatals in London 99 - 03, they couldn’t get their hands on most of the files.
Which is NOT to say, on the other hand, that the cyclist did NOT also contribute in some way to the collision. Sometimes this was mentioned in court, sometimes not.
Speaking as an ex-pro road user, it is rare that I had a crash that I could not have avoided - which is not to say that I was to blame for most of those crashes even in more than a tiny part.
I guess I am trying to say that it’s not black and white.
BillChi:
ROG:
Who, truck driver or cyclist, has been deemed responsible by the police/courts for most of the collisions between the twoIn all honesty, I don’t enough stats to answer that conclusively.
Shame - that would have made interesting reading…
I agree that trucks should be removed from the city centre. Indeed alot of city centres are truck and car free. This of course would be a problem in London.
The point however stands that bikers have to be aware of their vunerability where the LGV is concerned.
On another note. Have buses caused any deaths or injuries of cyclists in London?
Lgv drivers are trained to a high standard and have to pass a stringent test. Most are fully aware of vunerable road users like cyclists. What more can be done that hasn’t already.
For instance new mirror laws have been introduced, but these will not cover every part of the truck. The expense involved with equipping trucks with multi angled cameras is not possible or affordable ,as in risk benefit out weighing
serious injury.
Make all cyclists take the cycling proficiency again.
Half the cyclists I see on the roads are certifiable! Then again, a similar percentage of car drivers are equally bad. Few of them have an idea how to act around a big truck, especially a left ■■■■■■.
Last time I was in the UK, a cyclist came up my left side, if I’d been in a UK wagon, he’d have been invisible. I had been indicating left, and he still came up beside me. He hid in what would be the blind spot on a UK motor, and expected to live!!!
I’ve seen people with no lights cycling the wrong way up one way streets at night, and their response to your complaints is “[zb] off”.
When cyclists start to act like they want to live, they should be given the time of day. Sensible cyclists should be wearing something to make them stand out from the mob, so we can actually see them. They should also not be trying to pass wagons that are trying to turn. It’s simple, if it can flatten you without noticing, stay clear!
Oh, and night time wagons in cities? Who will pay for the staff of all businesses to stay in all night? Who will shut up the people who whine about disturbed sleep?
IMO, I would say that most cyclists, not all, regard themselves as ‘PEDESTRIANS ON WHEELS’ and not as riders of a ‘road vehicle’.
Until such a ‘mindset’ is changed, then I cannot see any improvement happening.
To legally drive a hgv on the road you have taken at least 2 driving tests.
How many tests does a cyclist take before using the same road? . .
(when i say same road i dont include motorways but believe me,ive seen them peddaling down the hard shoulder) 
I have also made it quite clear what I think cyclists should do to avoid potential conflicts with lorries - stay off the road altogether. But seeing as that isn’t practical or desirable, I think it’s worth trying to work something out. But that means that all parties trying share the road, which means both groups accept that the other has a right to be there. I don’t hear that from you, and I wonder how representative you are of your fellows. I hope that you aren’t, but if you are, then you are in for an almighty shock.
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Not one post on this topic has said cyclists should not be on the road. All we as truckers and as road users are suggesting is that cyclists and other road users as well are made to see from our point of view. Even if they were just sent a dvd that shows and explains what it is like in a truck on the road (especially inside the m25) and how little we can actually see of that left hand side. If they’re not intrested then thats they’re problem. If they value cycling and enjoy being safe whilst doing it then surely cyclists will want to do everything they can to increase they’re safety so that they get home in one piece and not trapped under the wheels of a wagon? but hey thats just our point of view. Where it goes from here is upto other people that we have no control over… 
BillChi:
Scarab:
HOWEVER there is something free and instant that could be done and guaranteed to save lives and give everyone piece of mind.Alex
It’s not free and instant. How the hell do you disseminate such a message? Fliers? TV ads, magazine ads? All this costs money and effort and takes time.
But surely it would be worth it if it saves so many lives?